What can a 10th dan do that a 5th dan can't?

Makalakumu

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After training with several 8-10th dans out here in Hawaii, I'm curious as to what others think regarding the question, what can a 10th dan do that a 5th dan can't?

This is assuming your martial art uses the dan ranking system, btw.
 

dancingalone

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Make organizational decisions?

I for one don't associate absolute or even relative martial skill with dan ranks at all. I've seen too many lower ranked black belts who can run circles around their seniors.
 
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Makalakumu

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My half dozen experiences have basically fallen into two categories. The first is nothing but organizational stuff. The second is that the skill level is literally off the charts, like I felt like a white belt working out with certain people. Strangely enough, I haven't experienced that in karate, but I have while training in jujutsu. Twice!
 

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Demonstrate wisdom, of which there are no physical requirements involved.
 
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Makalakumu

Makalakumu

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Demonstrate wisdom, of which there are no physical requirements involved.

That's a great point. Perhaps the high rank has less to do with technique and much more to do with personal characteristics!
 

MJS

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After training with several 8-10th dans out here in Hawaii, I'm curious as to what others think regarding the question, what can a 10th dan do that a 5th dan can't?

This is assuming your martial art uses the dan ranking system, btw.

**Off topic** I'll start off by saying yes, I'm a bit green with envy, as IMO, Hawaii, much like California, seems to be the meca of martial arts. One of these days, I gotta make it out there. :D

**Back on topic**

This sounds like an open ended quesion, so let me ask....are you talking about technique wise or decision wise or in general?

Technique wise, I'd say at the most, perhaps a deeper understanding of the material. I mean, it would seem that once you reach a certain rank, there usually isnt anything new to learn per se, but instead just a deeper understanding of the material.

Decision wise, I'd say that the 10th would most likely be in charge of their respective organization, so in this case, the 5th would be more likely to make suggestions that would require approval of the 10th.
 

elder999

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That's a great point. Perhaps the high rank has less to do with technique and much more to do with personal characteristics!


Generally, ranks above 3rd to 5th dan-depending upon the system, and especially in most karate and jujutsu styles-are not so much for technical skill and content, and more to do with "service," and character development.

So my observations-limited as they are-in this regard have been as varied as yours-and they're my observations, and not necessarily valid at all......
 

Jdokan

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I think a second question has to be considered: Is the 10th degree 60+ years old or 35...If 35...nothing.......my view would revolve more around time in the art versus rank in the art....as pointed out above about some lower ranks can exceed higher ranks skill sets...for a multitude of reasons...Based upon the pure logic of it...the 10th will have better refined movements. Will know what truely is best for them and will have disregarded the excess....
 

Brian R. VanCise

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I guess it would all depend on the person. Some times they could do more and some times less. (skill wise) They may be a better teaching having been around longer or they may be the worst teacher you ever met! Each person is uniquely different!
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Bill Mattocks

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After training with several 8-10th dans out here in Hawaii, I'm curious as to what others think regarding the question, what can a 10th dan do that a 5th dan can't?

This is assuming your martial art uses the dan ranking system, btw.

My sensei is 8th dan. His two primary students and also instructors are both 5th dan and have been training with him for over 30 years.

They're all awesome. My sensei is more awesomer.

Faster, smoother, more powerful. Cleaner in execution, hands so fast we often have trouble seeing them. At 57 years old, there is little doubt that he can clean the clock of anyone in our school, and that's saying something, the two 5th dans are really, really, good.

I think the real answer to the question depends upon where you stand in your own training.

As a white belt, I doubt I could have told the difference between a 5th day and an 8th dan. Two years later as a brown belt, I see differences. I presume that at some point later in my training, I will perceive more subtle but important differences that will open my eyes still further.
 
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Makalakumu

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My sensei is 8th dan. His two primary students and also instructors are both 5th dan and have been training with him for over 30 years.

They're all awesome. My sensei is more awesomer.

Faster, smoother, more powerful. Cleaner in execution, hands so fast we often have trouble seeing them. At 57 years old, there is little doubt that he can clean the clock of anyone in our school, and that's saying something, the two 5th dans are really, really, good.

I think the real answer to the question depends upon where you stand in your own training.

As a white belt, I doubt I could have told the difference between a 5th day and an 8th dan. Two years later as a brown belt, I see differences. I presume that at some point later in my training, I will perceive more subtle but important differences that will open my eyes still further.

This is always my hope when I go and train with someone. I want to see something above and beyond, something that blows my mind away and leaves no doubt, that man is extraordinary. If we are talking about personal characteristics, you've got to put in the time to see that, but in terms of technique, it should be pretty much right out in the open, especially if you have experience in the art.
 

Ken Morgan

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The analogy Ive been taught is, (btw 8th is the highest level you can reach in our organization), 8th dan is where the ceiling and the wall meet, 7th dan is half of that height, (so halfway up the wall), 6th is half of 7th, (1/4 way up the wall), 5th is half of a 6th, (so 1/8 of the way up the wall).

My next grade is for 5th in both jodo and iaido, and yet when I practice with these 8th dans who have been training for 25 50 years, I feel almost like a beginner again.

But, I keep training.
 
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Makalakumu

Makalakumu

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The analogy Ive been taught is, (btw 8th is the highest level you can reach in our organization), 8th dan is where the ceiling and the wall meet, 7th dan is half of that height, (so halfway up the wall), 6th is half of 7th, (1/4 way up the wall), 5th is half of a 6th, (so 1/8 of the way up the wall).

My next grade is for 5th in both jodo and iaido, and yet when I practice with these 8th dans who have been training for 25 50 years, I feel almost like a beginner again.

But, I keep training.

That's one thing I've noticed about weapon arts, high ranks are synonymous with extraordinary skills. I've watched a kendo 7th dan in a match and it took my breath away how fast he won it. I could barely register what he did!
 

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That's a great point. Perhaps the high rank has less to do with technique and much more to do with personal characteristics!
Once the character has been cultivated to a high degree, which should be the goal of any serious Martial Artist, you begin to see things in a different light. You see people, techniques, and even life itself in a much broader context. Jdokan said it best, when he said....

[quote by Jdokan] "disregarded the excess....". [/quote]

My thought is, don't discount the old man in the corner of the room, because inside there lurks a white belt, with much to say.
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What can a 10th dan do that a 5th dan can't?

Collect SS :asian:
 

Rich Parsons

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As stated by others already everyone is an individual and it depends upon the systems and organization.


That being said, someone also talked a little about seeing and noticing things differently as a brown belt then a white belt.

Sometimes the subtle is missed. One does not know what they do not know until they learn more first.

This works for both the techniques and for the character side as well.
 
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