What Benefits Do Your School Receive From Your Organization?

[MadMartigan106 22]

In the spirit of kicking bears and poking hornets nests:

If your school belongs to an organization (of whatever size), what TANGIBLE benefits do you receive? I'm curious from both a school owner's as well as from a student within the school's perspective.

When you do the math on cost/benefit, what do you look at as important? For instance:

- Do you pay annual fees (per student, for the whole club, both, or other)?

- How much are those fees?

- Are there other mandatory costs (required seminars, submitting grading fees, uniforms that must be purchased from the Org, etc)?

- In return, what do you (as a school or as an individual student) get back?

- Do Your dues come back in a way that has a clear benefit for the average, non-competitive, unathletic colored belt?

- Is there transparency on where the money is spent (does it all funnel up to a select few at the top for travel and competitions, etc)?

- If your organization ceased to exist today, what do they provide that your school could not manage without?

 

[MadMartigan106 22]

Thought I'd try to bump this thread in case it just got lost in the shuffle...rather than not getting any answers because no one cares about the question .
I'd love to get some opinions from other viewpoints on this if there is interest.
Thanks

 

[Tony Dismukes113 9]

Since I am now a school co-owner, I guess I'll toss in my two cents.

Our school is part of Carlson Gracie Jr's association. We get to use the Carlson Gracie name in our signage and marketing. Our students generally get to drop in for free when visiting other Carlson Grace schools. And our students get a discounted rate on seminars when Carlson comes to town. I guess now that I'm head of the school and my former coach has retired, Carlson will be directly responsible for my future promotions. However I won't be eligible for my 4th degree until 2029, so that's not a concern at the moment.

Our students do not pay for any sort of association membership. I believe our gym does pay a small annual fee to Carlson for the right to use his name. The previous owner told me a while back how much it was, but I don't remember. Now that I'm in charge, I guess I need to find out. Carlson will be visiting for a seminar in a couple of weeks, so I'll get that straightened out then.

While I don't remember exactly how much the annual membership costs, it was low enough so that I think it's worthwhile just to maintain that relationship with the Carlson and the larger association. But if the association disappeared tomorrow it wouldn't make a significant difference in how our school runs.

 

[skribs114 135]

As you may know, I was recently forced to go the unaffiliated route, but had previously been weighing the options. Here are the benefits from my perspective if I were to have gone affiliated with the organization:

• My black belt students would be recognized at other schools at the degree they receive from me.
• Official recognition from the organization can help the reputation of my school for prospective students.
• Folks new to the area with experience in the organization's schools might feel more comfortable going to a school that uses the forms and styles they are familiar with from their previous school.
• More opportunities for competition within the sport authority related to the organization, especially those that require black belt ranks come from the organization (up to and including Nationals or Olympics).

 

[isshinryuronin5 5]

As you may know, I was recently forced to go the unaffiliated route, but had previously been weighing the options. Here are the benefits from my perspective if I were to have gone affiliated with the organization:

• My black belt students would be recognized at other schools at the degree they receive from me.
• Official recognition from the organization can help the reputation of my school for prospective students.
• Folks new to the area with experience in the organization's schools might feel more comfortable going to a school that uses the forms and styles they are familiar with from their previous school.
• More opportunities for competition within the sport authority related to the organization, especially those that require black belt ranks come from the organization (up to and including Nationals or Olympics).

There can be solid benefits from belonging to a well-known organization as you note. My only experience with a structured org was Ed Parker's Kenpo. It was widespread with specific forms and techniques, so all schools were basically the same in this regard, teaching familiar stuff. His brand was very strong from the early 60's into the 80's. He would give seminars at your school (for a fee) and let's face it, IMO the coolest patch in karate, (Isshinryu's being a close second). And no, I did not study these styles because of the patches - purely coincidental, really.

Early isshinryu was rather informal as in the case of most traditional Okinawan karate. A small yearly membership fee was about it. I am now loosely affiliated with Master Uechi's (named heir to founder Shimabuku's son-in-law, the late Master Uezu) branch, which remains simple in organizational structure. Recognition by specific lineage is a plus for those who had the top senior instructors with a reputation for serious standards and knowledge of Okinawan karate within the isshinryu community. I think there are at least a dozen isshinryu associations in the USA now (!) and many score of 8th, 9th and even 10th degrees these days, but only a handful IMO are at a truly high level.

The caveat in organizations is their becoming self-serving and dogmatic, being more about the top guys and the organizational entity rather than the students. Rather than being a power structure, they should IMO be a facilitator for the students' benefit to advance their skill and knowledge in the art. If not, I would not belong regardless of other benefits it may offer.

 

[HighKick]

In the spirit of kicking bears and poking hornets nests:

If your school belongs to an organization (of whatever size), what TANGIBLE benefits do you receive? I'm curious from both a school owner's as well as from a student within the school's perspective.

When you do the math on cost/benefit, what do you look at as important? For instance:

- Do you pay annual fees (per student, for the whole club, both, or other)?

- How much are those fees?

- Are there other mandatory costs (required seminars, submitting grading fees, uniforms that must be purchased from the Org, etc)?

- In return, what do you (as a school or as an individual student) get back?

- Do Your dues come back in a way that has a clear benefit for the average, non-competitive, unathletic colored belt?

- Is there transparency on where the money is spent (does it all funnel up to a select few at the top for travel and competitions, etc)?

- If your organization ceased to exist today, what do they provide that your school could not manage without?

My GM’s business relationship with the schools in the States is straightforward. We pay a per student fee at each testing. We support each other’s tournaments financially and as aids and organizers. Those who can give to his mission efforts.
Me and a few other instructors have a Very personal relationship with our 82-year old GM and do quite a lot for him both at the schools and at his home. He is still amazing but no spring chicken.
In return we get as many classes as we can with him for free, and a wellspring of knowledge that doesn’t come around very often (believe me when I say I have tried to find it elsewhere). His name and association swing a big hammer in MDK circles and Korean WT/KKW and a medium sized hammer in the USATKD. It is a more fickle, less traditional bunch here and he, is not.

As far as transparency, my team does all his books for the schools in the States and in Korea (they are operated separately). He does rather well with the overseas schools but bleeds a little money stateside most years. ALL of his profit goes into his TKD Christian outreach mission. He was pretty rough around the edges in the ‘70’s and 80’s but man oh man what a turnaround.

There is no clear ‘heir to the thrown’. There are three of us who are 8th Dan MDK and 6th Dan KKW but no one who clearly wants to take the mantle. My gut says the Korean schools will be inheritance to his kids and will be sold off.
It is a lot, and Maybe the P&L could be better stateside but it comes with a good amount of risk. I know it will not be me.
When he passes, it will leave a Huge void. For me personally, I will be at the end of my MA’s career and business as well so I am resolved to this fact.

 

[skribs114 135]

The caveat in organizations is their becoming self-serving and dogmatic, being more about the top guys and the organizational entity rather than the students. Rather than being a power structure, they should IMO be a facilitator for the students' benefit to advance their skill and knowledge in the art. If not, I would not belong regardless of other benefits it may offer.

I was only presenting the pros in my post, but yeah I agree with you.

There are definitely cons, hence why I was on the fence even when it was an option.

 

[isshinryuronin5 5]

I was only presenting the pros.........,
There are definitely cons,

This was understood. Your system's several orgs and tight structure give a lot to think about when it comes to deciding on affiliation. I don't envy the decision process you went thru. I'm sure you'll do fine by your students as an independent.

 

[MadMartigan106 22]

Having been an independent for about 25 years, there have been many times when affiliation had to be considered (including recently). In the end, it always seems to boil down to 2 things:
- Curriculum Control
- Finances

I've struggled to see the benefit to my average color belt student who will never go compete anywhere by requiring every student to pay an annual fee (or having to pay that out of my own pocket) that seems to only benefit a select few.

What I want out of an organization (obviously within the same parent style) would be:
- Connection to high level instructors to discuss issues, ask questions, and set up high level gradings with (directly between examiner and applicant).
- A network of school owners who work together to arrange tournaments, seminars, etc
- Willingness to share contacts and information without looking for personal gain.

The common theme through all the above is that every one of them can be accomplished absolutely free. The tournaments could be paid for through competitors' fees. Seminar or grading fees could be negotiated directly between the involved parties. The mind-set being solely on supporting schools and instructors in order to advance the art.

From what I can see, the things that cost money (travel for high level competitors and org leadership, corporate filing fees, etc) all seem to be things that are not necessary (they may be nice to have, but not required).

This is why I wanted to start this thread. I'd like to hear from not just those who may agree with me, but also from those who think I'm missing something important.