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MartialArtist
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Nope, wasn't talking about you. Rather your description on how "martial artists" train.
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When I was in Asia, training was like this... Well, this is different for the advanced people, the beginners would focus 20% on technique.
10% Technique
30% Mental Endurance (Meditating in the snow, mind control, empty-mindedness, numerous pushups, etc.)
10% Drills - Breaking, combo drills, tactic drills, footwork, adaptation, technical practicality and real-life simulations, punching drills, rolling drills, etc.)
50% Conditioning - Full Contact sparring, running up a mountain with a 30-40 degree incline with a log, jogging, sprinting, speed training, power training, more full contact sparring...
The culture accepts corporal punishment more so you can also think how that would feel.
That is just one day, the percentages may differ but conditioning always comes out on top. Oh yeah, and split that with 6-7 hours. One of the things I am glad I went through, but will never go through again.
And I wouldn't say most martial artists don't train hard. Maybe in your experience, and is pretty much my experience in both West and East as they're getting more commercialized by the second, but you'll be surprised how many train all out, how dedicated they are, and how much full-contact sparring they do.
10% Technique
30% Mental Endurance (Meditating in the snow, mind control, empty-mindedness, numerous pushups, etc.)
10% Drills - Breaking, combo drills, tactic drills, footwork, adaptation, technical practicality and real-life simulations, punching drills, rolling drills, etc.)
50% Conditioning - Full Contact sparring, running up a mountain with a 30-40 degree incline with a log, jogging, sprinting, speed training, power training, more full contact sparring...
The culture accepts corporal punishment more so you can also think how that would feel.
That is just one day, the percentages may differ but conditioning always comes out on top. Oh yeah, and split that with 6-7 hours. One of the things I am glad I went through, but will never go through again.
And I wouldn't say most martial artists don't train hard. Maybe in your experience, and is pretty much my experience in both West and East as they're getting more commercialized by the second, but you'll be surprised how many train all out, how dedicated they are, and how much full-contact sparring they do.
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tmanifold
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- #83
That was my point. If martial artist trained like boxers then they would be more effective. But for the most part at least in western society, they don't
That type of atmosphere is what I have thought make soldiers such good fighters, especially the infantry and its cousins. Not any special technique just brutal training that stresses mind over matter and fighting through the pain. So I agree with you that that training is at least comparable to a boxers, which would give the edge to the Martist.
Tony
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Haha, I wish that was what I still did. That was around my prime. I don't think I could do that anymore. Yes, many people DO DIE from training like that, much more than American football.
You can look at it in the other spectrum. There are boxers who just train for sport. Or the people who train 1 hour a day, 3 times a week at the YMCA thinking they're monsters.
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sweeper
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Gou I did go to their page, their diagrams were flawed though so instead I brought the argument to you 
1. All I was saying was just as the boxing jab misses it's target some times, the lead sidekick misses also or at leaste fails to deliver 100% of it's potential. As to the injury to the shin, if it isn't fractured nothing's gona happen, seriously, I have known people who had fractured shins in soccer from a kick and conntinued to play (finding out latter they were fractured) unless you cause serious dammage all it will do is cause pain, and in my experience pain doesn't distract everyone. It also would make them respect the power of your lead leg (kinda like establishing a strong jab in boxing). all the techniques work the same way, anything can miss and it isn't like the boxer is gona assume you are gona box them, they will be aware of your ability. But I think it's nessisaray to point out that JKD fighters make up a relativly small percentage of martial artists.
As to me fighting a boxer? I have had it go both ways, some are just like how you make them out to be, realy weak fighters that can't do anything outside of their rule set, a battery of low kicks will control them and they never see the slip-sidekick to ribs.. but others know how to deal with low kicks, they can avoid most and shift their weight to reduce your power or use footwork to close in, those guys are harder to fight, you either just keep pushing them away with thrust kicks or you take em down, my point is not all boxing gyms are the same.
2: "Even if it does not break, he would be limping along." No one has ever made me limp from kciking my shin, never in my life has this happened, in my experience it's either broken and you know it's broken so you arne't even gona try to stand, or you can run on it no problem. the only way I could see someone limping on it is if they had alot of repeated minor fractures, might feal kinda like shin splints of somthing.
3: Most vs Most in my opinion comes out to average vs average as well as best vs best and weakest vs weakest, I think this is where the whole argument is rooted, you are seeing the statement as most boxers (any of a broad group) would kill most martial artists (any of a broad group) so say a weak boxer could take a strong martial artist. I tihnk it was intended to mean if you were to take a broad range of martial artists and a broad range of boxers and matched them by relative ability, the boxers would win the majority of the fights. however, even in the previous example, considering the way martial arts are handled here in the US (can't realy speak for a world scale though) I think the martial artists that you speak of, people who train cardio and go full contact are in the minority to the extreem.
5: no you did put that qualifier there "when you are talking about the hobbyists MA folks, they are NOT real martial artists" that's the qualifier that changes everything. The vast majority of schools are mcdojos, that's why we call them that, cause there is on on every corner, look in a phone book and give me the ratio of TKD schols - JKD schools you find, look in the phonebook for a large city (if you don't live in one) also. I think most martial artists aren't that good because most martialartists practice at schools that aren't that good, is that to say most that you know? or most ina given style? well no it isn't, just most in genneral. I think you over estimate how most people practice here in the US. there are deffenatly ALOT of good martial artists, great martial artists even, but they don't make up the majority.
Another point I might add, what prevents a boxer from knowing how to kick? I suppose the same thing that would prevent a martial artists from boxing??
Originally posted by KennethKu
1. Low lead side kick to the shin or knee is used like a jab in JKD. But It is delivered wth explosive blast. Since you are in JKD. You know this.
I only use the side kick to shin/knee as an example. There are many more variations , but the principle is the same.
You are in JKD. I fail to see how you don't get rotten spoiled when coming up to a boxer. It is like a dream match , fixed by Don King in advance. (Think about it, lead side kick propelled by forward blast as the boxer moves in. Oh add a feint, pretend to box the boxer by assuming your south paw on guard stance. Bruce Lee would be proud of you LOL. )
Ok, the only thing I can think of is, if you are trying to box a boxer with the WinChun part of JKD. Then you are violating the rules of JKD. "Be water, my friend" lol
2. There are more than one way to attack the knee and shin bone. Plus, JKD footwork will draw you to attack for the side plane too. Even if it does not break, he would be limping along.
3. The debate was not started on average vs average. They switched the focus after they realized their previous statement has no legs to stand on ( and then went on personal attack)
They claimed that most boxers will kill most MArtists. That is a reflection of 1 ignorance, 2 self defficiency, especially if you got carried away in some art that mesmerizes "natural body movement" (dancing comes to mind lol) to the neglect of conditioning. Then you pee your pants when you see a boxer who conditions himself daily.
4. There is no point in arguing about what kind of boxer vs soccer moms. Why bother? We all know the answer.
5. I didn't put the qualifier there. The qualifier is inherently there in the begining when they made those statements "most boxers will kill most MArtists". I was just making the obvious correction that "MOST MArtists" are not just your soccer moms and teen BB. There are a whole group of true MArtists who would have a field day going up against your trained boxers.
If you are a competent MArtists and you don't know how to defeat a boxer, then back to school (new school) and the heavy bag! lol
Look, if you insist on calling soccermoms your MArtists and then claim that the boxers can beat soccermom the MArtist, then you are just saying something we already know all along.
1. All I was saying was just as the boxing jab misses it's target some times, the lead sidekick misses also or at leaste fails to deliver 100% of it's potential. As to the injury to the shin, if it isn't fractured nothing's gona happen, seriously, I have known people who had fractured shins in soccer from a kick and conntinued to play (finding out latter they were fractured) unless you cause serious dammage all it will do is cause pain, and in my experience pain doesn't distract everyone. It also would make them respect the power of your lead leg (kinda like establishing a strong jab in boxing). all the techniques work the same way, anything can miss and it isn't like the boxer is gona assume you are gona box them, they will be aware of your ability. But I think it's nessisaray to point out that JKD fighters make up a relativly small percentage of martial artists.
As to me fighting a boxer? I have had it go both ways, some are just like how you make them out to be, realy weak fighters that can't do anything outside of their rule set, a battery of low kicks will control them and they never see the slip-sidekick to ribs.. but others know how to deal with low kicks, they can avoid most and shift their weight to reduce your power or use footwork to close in, those guys are harder to fight, you either just keep pushing them away with thrust kicks or you take em down, my point is not all boxing gyms are the same.
2: "Even if it does not break, he would be limping along." No one has ever made me limp from kciking my shin, never in my life has this happened, in my experience it's either broken and you know it's broken so you arne't even gona try to stand, or you can run on it no problem. the only way I could see someone limping on it is if they had alot of repeated minor fractures, might feal kinda like shin splints of somthing.
3: Most vs Most in my opinion comes out to average vs average as well as best vs best and weakest vs weakest, I think this is where the whole argument is rooted, you are seeing the statement as most boxers (any of a broad group) would kill most martial artists (any of a broad group) so say a weak boxer could take a strong martial artist. I tihnk it was intended to mean if you were to take a broad range of martial artists and a broad range of boxers and matched them by relative ability, the boxers would win the majority of the fights. however, even in the previous example, considering the way martial arts are handled here in the US (can't realy speak for a world scale though) I think the martial artists that you speak of, people who train cardio and go full contact are in the minority to the extreem.
5: no you did put that qualifier there "when you are talking about the hobbyists MA folks, they are NOT real martial artists" that's the qualifier that changes everything. The vast majority of schools are mcdojos, that's why we call them that, cause there is on on every corner, look in a phone book and give me the ratio of TKD schols - JKD schools you find, look in the phonebook for a large city (if you don't live in one) also. I think most martial artists aren't that good because most martialartists practice at schools that aren't that good, is that to say most that you know? or most ina given style? well no it isn't, just most in genneral. I think you over estimate how most people practice here in the US. there are deffenatly ALOT of good martial artists, great martial artists even, but they don't make up the majority.
Another point I might add, what prevents a boxer from knowing how to kick? I suppose the same thing that would prevent a martial artists from boxing??
KennethKu
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Sweeper
This is getting repetitive, as all my counter argument has already been presented in previous posts. I am not interested in repeating them again.
I just like to point out that, NOT just JKD knows how to kick low. I use JKD as example b/c we are both familiar with it. The TKD people know what the high kicks are for and they are fully aware of low kicks, and are even better at delivering low kicks. And there is a wide spread misconception of the speed and power of TKD /KT/JKD practitioners.
As for the shin bone, it seems like you simply base your comment on your own personal experience. You must not have been hit in the shin bone heavy enough
This is getting repetitive, as all my counter argument has already been presented in previous posts. I am not interested in repeating them again.
I just like to point out that, NOT just JKD knows how to kick low. I use JKD as example b/c we are both familiar with it. The TKD people know what the high kicks are for and they are fully aware of low kicks, and are even better at delivering low kicks. And there is a wide spread misconception of the speed and power of TKD /KT/JKD practitioners.
As for the shin bone, it seems like you simply base your comment on your own personal experience. You must not have been hit in the shin bone heavy enough
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tmanifold
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Originally posted by KennethKu
Sweeper
This is getting repetitive, as all my counter argument has already been presented in previous posts. I am not interested in repeating them again.
I just like to point out that, NOT just JKD knows how to kick low. I use JKD as example b/c we are both familiar with it. The TKD people know what the high kicks are for and they are fully aware of low kicks, and are even better at delivering low kicks. And there is a wide spread misconception of the speed and power of TKD /KT/JKD practitioners.
As for the shin bone, it seems like you simply base your comment on your own personal experience. You must not have been hit in the shin bone heavy enough
You seem to think that people don't have the experience that you do. When people refute your arguments you either change your definitions "No, I meant most serious martial artist, who train full contact, not Soccer moms." or you belittle others experiences, as in the above quote. I have a question. Has anyone ever broken your shin? Have you broken anyone elses? I personally have never seen a shin broken in my life. That includes in all my experience with Thai kick boxing where full force shin on shin kicks are normal. I am sure it happens but if it was easy I probably wouls have seen it.
Also, I find it curious that you lump, TKd, JKd and Kt(Kung Tao?) together. They are very different. Also to my knowledge, the lowline shin kick of JKD is a stop hit, similar to a stiff jab, not a fight ender. If your argument holds true, though, my knowledge will be wrong. You are argueing ad nauseum, you can't keeping changing the rules and definitions to suit your side of the argument.
Tony
KennethKu
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My point is, contrary to what Sweeper said, you don't need to kick the shin bone into 2 for effect. You read it inaccurately. (NOTE: It is easier to break the knee than to break the shin. No one argues the otherwise)
Sweeper indicated that he has been kicked in the shin before and to no effect at all. There could be only 2 reasons. 1. He was not kicked hard enough. 2. He has the shin bone of a MT boxer. Hence my reference to the possibility that he has not been kicked hard enough. I am sorry if people take that as a redicule. But it was not intended to be one.
A bare foot kick to the shin may or may not do much damage. But with shoes, a forceful kick, determines the outcome of the confrontation. If you dont believe me, go slam your shin again the cabinet corner or wall corner.
"the lowline shin kick of JKD is a stop hit" It can be but it is NOT limited to that. Totally depends on how much explosive force you put into it.
"..When people refute your arguments you either change your definitions "No, I meant most serious martial artist, who train full contact, not Soccer moms." ..."
PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. MY position has always being the same. I have stated clearly that those MArtists I know of can beat most boxers. Most of them are serious MArtists. I have never disputed that most boxers can beat soccermoms. I also stated that is a pointless statement to make. It just seems you all think that most MArtists are like soccermoms. But I happen to know many who are NOT. Read the posts again then perhads you would not mistaken my position.
"...You seem to think that people don't have the experience that you do..." Inaccurate. I never presented myself as such. Look, if you don't know any MArtists that do not suck, and I happen to know of many who are good, hey I am sorry but that is the way things are. The fact is there are a lot of TKD people who can smash 4-5 boards with a swift kick. Even 6-8 boards are not that uncommon.
"..I find it curious that you lump, TKDd, JKD and Kt(Kung Tao?) together..." KT is for Karate, not Kung Tao (BTW, What is Kung Tao?) Low kick is common to all three, not just in JKD.
Sweeper indicated that he has been kicked in the shin before and to no effect at all. There could be only 2 reasons. 1. He was not kicked hard enough. 2. He has the shin bone of a MT boxer. Hence my reference to the possibility that he has not been kicked hard enough. I am sorry if people take that as a redicule. But it was not intended to be one.
A bare foot kick to the shin may or may not do much damage. But with shoes, a forceful kick, determines the outcome of the confrontation. If you dont believe me, go slam your shin again the cabinet corner or wall corner.
"the lowline shin kick of JKD is a stop hit" It can be but it is NOT limited to that. Totally depends on how much explosive force you put into it.
"..When people refute your arguments you either change your definitions "No, I meant most serious martial artist, who train full contact, not Soccer moms." ..."
PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. MY position has always being the same. I have stated clearly that those MArtists I know of can beat most boxers. Most of them are serious MArtists. I have never disputed that most boxers can beat soccermoms. I also stated that is a pointless statement to make. It just seems you all think that most MArtists are like soccermoms. But I happen to know many who are NOT. Read the posts again then perhads you would not mistaken my position.
"...You seem to think that people don't have the experience that you do..." Inaccurate. I never presented myself as such. Look, if you don't know any MArtists that do not suck, and I happen to know of many who are good, hey I am sorry but that is the way things are. The fact is there are a lot of TKD people who can smash 4-5 boards with a swift kick. Even 6-8 boards are not that uncommon.
"..I find it curious that you lump, TKDd, JKD and Kt(Kung Tao?) together..." KT is for Karate, not Kung Tao (BTW, What is Kung Tao?) Low kick is common to all three, not just in JKD.
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sweeper
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yeah jkd low kicks come in alot of forms, the lead side kick can either be a snappy jab with little body in it, a stop hit, or a power shot (like a mid body side kick) or any combination.
I have seen someone's shin break, not in MA class, on a soccer field, the cleats went through the guard and broke his tibia, I don't know if his fibula broke, he didn't get up. I have had all kinds of leg injuries but I realy don't know if I ever had a fracture because I have never had any part of my body except my head xrayed, but I do know people who played soccer on a fractured shin, the just thought they had a realy bad bruis, as for kicking hard enough, unless you crack the bone to the point that its structural integraty is in question when weight is put on it, you anre't gona take them out of a fight. And yes I know this is repeated info, but I don't realy know how else to put it, I have played soccer with people (ok one person) who was playing on a cracked shin, I myself have never gone to the hospital for such an injury, so I would say I have never been kicked hard enough, but unless someone broke my shin I don't see how that would be hard enough...
As to brekaing the shin, to break the shin your opponant has to have their weight on it, otherwise their foot will move, the only times I know of shins breaking are either dual impact (they are both kicking) or all their weight is on one foot (like running). if you need to break someone's shin I would suggest a side kick with the heal of the foot. As to breaking the knee, you don't break it, it's a joint and depending on it's position it is realy hard to dammage it, if someone keeps their knees straight than yeah you are gona hyper extend it, if someone has their knee bent a little and twists their leg a little side to side, you will just buckle it.
KennethKu breaking boards doesn't realy mean much beacause wood and bone are two very dissimular substances, in addition you rarely will kick a target that is imobile (pinned against the ground or a wall for example, and in any other situation the closest comparison would be a break out of the air.
as to the statement you made of most martial artists you know.. Well that has no bearing on gous statement, most of the martial artists I know practice JKD, does that mean most of the martial artists in the world practice JKD? obviously not. no one ever said that the people you know and are talking about can't take a boxer, we don't know them so it isn't even an issue, your personal freinds have no bearing on the statement in question though.
As to the TKD fighters kicking low? most TKD practitioners do not practice kicking low, don't know much about karate but from the people I know that used to practice it, I gather that kicking to the shin wasn't as big of a deal as kicking to the knee or the ribs, but I don't even know what style of karate it was, not the greatest example. My only real point so far has been that not all martial artists are your freinds, or rather your freinds aren't representative of most martial artists.
I have seen someone's shin break, not in MA class, on a soccer field, the cleats went through the guard and broke his tibia, I don't know if his fibula broke, he didn't get up. I have had all kinds of leg injuries but I realy don't know if I ever had a fracture because I have never had any part of my body except my head xrayed, but I do know people who played soccer on a fractured shin, the just thought they had a realy bad bruis, as for kicking hard enough, unless you crack the bone to the point that its structural integraty is in question when weight is put on it, you anre't gona take them out of a fight. And yes I know this is repeated info, but I don't realy know how else to put it, I have played soccer with people (ok one person) who was playing on a cracked shin, I myself have never gone to the hospital for such an injury, so I would say I have never been kicked hard enough, but unless someone broke my shin I don't see how that would be hard enough...
As to brekaing the shin, to break the shin your opponant has to have their weight on it, otherwise their foot will move, the only times I know of shins breaking are either dual impact (they are both kicking) or all their weight is on one foot (like running). if you need to break someone's shin I would suggest a side kick with the heal of the foot. As to breaking the knee, you don't break it, it's a joint and depending on it's position it is realy hard to dammage it, if someone keeps their knees straight than yeah you are gona hyper extend it, if someone has their knee bent a little and twists their leg a little side to side, you will just buckle it.
KennethKu breaking boards doesn't realy mean much beacause wood and bone are two very dissimular substances, in addition you rarely will kick a target that is imobile (pinned against the ground or a wall for example, and in any other situation the closest comparison would be a break out of the air.
as to the statement you made of most martial artists you know.. Well that has no bearing on gous statement, most of the martial artists I know practice JKD, does that mean most of the martial artists in the world practice JKD? obviously not. no one ever said that the people you know and are talking about can't take a boxer, we don't know them so it isn't even an issue, your personal freinds have no bearing on the statement in question though.
As to the TKD fighters kicking low? most TKD practitioners do not practice kicking low, don't know much about karate but from the people I know that used to practice it, I gather that kicking to the shin wasn't as big of a deal as kicking to the knee or the ribs, but I don't even know what style of karate it was, not the greatest example
. My only real point so far has been that not all martial artists are your freinds, or rather your freinds aren't representative of most martial artists.
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MartialArtist
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I don't think he wasn't changing anything. What he was doing was collaborating to minimize confusion.
I have indeed seen broken shin bones but it is rare. Most of the time, it was done by beginners who didn't get the technique down and without any conditioning done to the shin.
Lumping TKD, JKD, and KT together? What are you talking about? It is perfectly all right to group those martial arts together. It just seems you are too observant of styles. There are numerous similiarities between all those arts and can be grouped together, I dunno exactly what your point is by saying you can't group them together.
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On the contrary. Well, I agree partly with your statement.Originally posted by sweeper
As to the TKD fighters kicking low? most TKD practitioners do not practice kicking low, don't know much about karate but from the people I know that used to practice it, I gather that kicking to the shin wasn't as big of a deal as kicking to the knee or the ribs, but I don't even know what style of karate it was, not the greatest example
Most commercial TKD practitioners kick high and don't practice kicking low.
But, most military TKD practitioners kick both high and low. Reason? Well, the chances to kick high are rare against a skilled fighter. When I first started military TKD way back in Seoul, and I mean way back when I was very young, I kicked high and an older person locked my foot and with the other leg, kicked me (not with all his might but enough to hurt) to the back of the knee of the standing leg. Then he went in for the choke. So why do we practice high kicks in military TKD? If you can kick high fast, you can kick even higher lower. It develops your balance, speed, hip agility, ballistic flexibility, and much more. But we also do not deny training in low kicking. There were hundreds of drills we did that dealt specifically with low kicks do don't give me that TKD doesn't teach low kicks. Even when I sparred later, there were many oppourtunities to use high kicks too, you can't deny their usage. The opening may be uncommon, but they are there and if you exploit them... But most of the kicks in military TKD, during sparring or full-resistance simulations, don't go above the hip at all. Sometimes at the chest, very rarely at the head.
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J-kid
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Its because they close the gap and get close to you, There are three basic ranges of attacks Long range= kick medium=punchs
close range=grapplers when boxers fight people they dont stand back a few feet and let you kick away they go closer to you and punch thats the idea behind boxing.
close range=grapplers when boxers fight people they dont stand back a few feet and let you kick away they go closer to you and punch thats the idea behind boxing.
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MartialArtist
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Yep, that's exactly the idea. A long-range fighter would try to get away, the in-fighter would try to get in, and if they both use good footwork, you'll end up in all different types of ranges, including both of their "comfort" zones.
KennethKu
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Sweeper, you don't need to break your shin into 2 to be put out of action!. Go bang your shin on the cabinet corner or the wall corner as hard as you can. According to you, since your shin is not held in place at both ends like a breaking board, then you don't have to worry about breaking it. AND you don't think the pain would bother anyone. So, prove it. But report back here that the pain does not bother you at all.
Every one else is welcome to try this on your own. LOL
As for other points, they are just repeating the old stuff that has already been addressed. I am not going to repeat myself over and over again.
Every one else is welcome to try this on your own. LOL
As for other points, they are just repeating the old stuff that has already been addressed. I am not going to repeat myself over and over again.
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tmanifold
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Originally posted by KennethKu
My point is, contrary to what Sweeper said, you don't need to kick the shin bone into 2 for effect. You read it inaccurately. (NOTE: It is easier to break the knee than to break the shin. No one argues the otherwise)
Sweeper indicated that he has been kicked in the shin before and to no effect at all. There could be only 2 reasons. 1. He was not kicked hard enough. 2. He has the shin bone of a MT boxer. Hence my reference to the possibility that he has not been kicked hard enough. I am sorry if people take that as a redicule. But it was not intended to be one.
A bare foot kick to the shin may or may not do much damage. But with shoes, a forceful kick, determines the outcome of the confrontation. If you dont believe me, go slam your shin again the cabinet corner or wall corner.
"the lowline shin kick of JKD is a stop hit" It can be but it is NOT limited to that. Totally depends on how much explosive force you put into it.
"..When people refute your arguments you either change your definitions "No, I meant most serious martial artist, who train full contact, not Soccer moms." ..."
PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. MY position has always being the same. I have stated clearly that those MArtists I know of can beat most boxers. Most of them are serious MArtists. I have never disputed that most boxers can beat soccermoms. I also stated that is a pointless statement to make. It just seems you all think that most MArtists are like soccermoms. But I happen to know many who are NOT. Read the posts again then perhads you would not mistaken my position.
"...You seem to think that people don't have the experience that you do..." Inaccurate. I never presented myself as such. Look, if you don't know any MArtists that do not suck, and I happen to know of many who are good, hey I am sorry but that is the way things are. The fact is there are a lot of TKD people who can smash 4-5 boards with a swift kick. Even 6-8 boards are not that uncommon.
"..I find it curious that you lump, TKDd, JKD and Kt(Kung Tao?) together..." KT is for Karate, not Kung Tao (BTW, What is Kung Tao?) Low kick is common to all three, not just in JKD.
To make sure I don't "put words in your mouth" I will qoute directly.
"It just seems you all think that most MArtists are like soccermoms" Yes I do. Maybe not actually soccer moms but people who train in similar fashion. Most as in statisically more than any other groups.
"Look, if you don't know any MArtists that do not suck, and I happen to know of many who are good, hey I am sorry but that is the way things are." This I what I mean't when I said you think others do not have the experiences you do. FYI know a lot of good martial artist, in fact I have trained with some of the best in the world. And I still have the opinions I do. Now some of these guys would beat even world class boxers but these guys are elite martial artist. We are not talking about them we are talking average.
"I find it curious that you lump, TKDd, JKD and Kt(Kung Tao?) together..." KT is for Karate, not Kung Tao (BTW, What is Kung Tao?) Low kick is common to all three, not just in JKD" OKay i understand now. I just think the differences are huge but yes the low kick is common to all three.
FYI Kung Tao is a filipino or indonesion version of kung fu. Really good stuff. I think T.A.C.S.A.F.E. posted some videos in the library.
Tony
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GouRonin
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- #96
Why bother man? The guy is a wack job. He has no clue what you say and can't even understand rudimentary arguments and simply hears what he wants to hear. He didn't understand my argument at all when the rest of you did and still continues to use an incorrect analogy because of it. There is no point in arguing with this sack of doorknobs because he's not going to change his mind or accept reality. I'd let it go. Everyone knows the truth. Let him live in his fantasy world.
KennethKu
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Gouronin
I respect the MOD's instruction and ignored your repeated crap. Why don't you STFU? You are sored b/c you have accidentally revealed your shallow shell. You behavior is truly unbecoming of a martial artist. That is pathetic.
I respect the MOD's instruction and ignored your repeated crap. Why don't you STFU? You are sored b/c you have accidentally revealed your shallow shell. You behavior is truly unbecoming of a martial artist. That is pathetic.
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GouRonin
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- #98
No, you're pathetic. I'm gonna say this really slow because you're kinda stupid and you didn't grasp my last post soccer moms and you keep on about it.
No, wait, I'll put up my argument again. This time more simple. Just because hopefully you'll grasp it.
Casual martial artists vs Casual boxer = Boxer
Average martial artist vs average boxer = Boxer
Pro Martial artists vs Pro boxer = Bocer most of the time.
My behavior by the way is proably more of a martial artist than your pathetic Budo wannabe image. Your belief that if you tell someone something long enough, despite it being wrong, that they will believe you is exactly what creates cults in the Martial arts.
KennethKu
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Look, all along You made it sound like none of you know any martial artists who could beat boxers. YES , in that outrageous case, it would seem like I knew something you didn't. I knew all along that could not be the case, but you people keep arguing back the same thing. I am glad you come out and state that there are elite martial artists who have no problem going up against boxers. (Except for Gouronin, who blindly mistaken that a boxer would beat a Karateka at every level
Then again his RMA instructor claimed to be able to identify color by just touching it )Ok, we are arguing semantics here. "Most" include the elite, the average and those who suck. "Average" is just that , "average"
Way in the begining, I have posted clearly that most boxers can beat soccermoms. Soccermoms don't give a rat ***, as soccermoms are not interested in boxing a boxer. So who cares? Most boxers could not beat most MArtists as "most MArtists" include a group of elite martial artists who would have a field day going up against a boxer out side of the ring.
Basically we are not that far apart in our views.
KennethKu
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Guoronin,
You are just royally sored that most TKD/KT/JKD know how to defeat a boxer but you don't. So much for emphasis on "natural body movement that does not need conditioning". Speaking of which, Krav Maga is much more efficient than Systema. Another shocking truth. lmao.
You are just royally sored that most TKD/KT/JKD know how to defeat a boxer but you don't. So much for emphasis on "natural body movement that does not need conditioning". Speaking of which, Krav Maga is much more efficient than Systema. Another shocking truth. lmao.
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