well as long as he teaches "good stuff"...

[Tgace]

...who cares if he is a liar?

http://www.4029tv.com/news/arkansas...-arrested-by-authorities-in-garfield/24483948

The charges stemmed from when Dicken operated a military style self-defense school in Nevada. The training he provided included firearms and self-defense tactics. He was exposed after he was profiled on both ABC's 20/20 and Inside Edition as the result of alleged criminal acts.

More allegations include embezzlement and fraud where Dicken bilked investors out of more than $850,000 for a proposed new international security firm.


Read more: http://www.4029tv.com/news/arkansas/river-valley/24483948#ixzz2tPnJvSaj

Where is the line between "harmless fibs" and outright lies when it comes to these martial arts/firearms trainers?

 

[Grenadier]

This is a difficult thing to assess, and can really only judged on a case-by-case basis.

Some embellishments of someone's history are relatively harmless, such as someone making a huge deal out of an insignificant achievement. I see this regularly, where someone who happened to win a bronze medal at a small tournament with weak competition (and did so in a 3-man division) would claim that he was the bronze medalist at the Tri State Mega Karate Championships (just a random name; no offense to anyone who happens to name his tournament with that label). Or, someone might have beaten another highly renown competitor because of a disqualification, etc., and tries to make it sound as if he won by his own merit.

I'd be willing to overlook that kind of triviality, as long as that teacher were able to provide good material.


There's a huge difference between that, though, and being nailed for felonious behavior. Even amongst this category, it has to be judged on a case-by case basis.

For example, there may be some fellow who, as an 18 year old, did something truly stupid and foolish, and got into hot water as a result. If he were truly rehabilitated, and cleaned up his life, I could be willing to forgive him for his past transgressions.

If, on the other hand, it's something like this Dicken character, then I'd certainly have to say "no way in Hell." The fact that he has quite a checkered past consisting of multiple run-ins, disqualifies him from being my trust.

Besides, he's a felon, and is automatically forbidden from possessing firearms. That's certainly not a person I'd want teaching me to how use a firearm...

 

[jks9199]

I think a key issue is the relation of the "fibs" and "misunderstandings" to what the guy is doing. In this case -- the lies are directly related to the teaching. It's no different from the ninjer teaching the "secret family art"... Maybe even worse, because odds are higher that someone might actually try to rely on what Dicken taught to survive.

Now, was he simply hiding that his family made much of their money in questionable ways, or hiding that he had a lot of family money... or that his felony conviction was the result of a 3 strikes law for petit larceny... that might be different.

Another factor that I'd have to weigh is how much of the "lies" were being repeated and reshaped by others. I'm sure many of us are familiar with incidents where something someone said once got misinterpreted and "enhanced" along the way... Like the classic "I teach members of the military/police/special forces" from the guy with a couple of students who happen to be in that background or who taught a weekend special class for some of them being blown into "official military/police/special forces trainer."

 

[Tgace]

Where does the character of the person overcome the value of what he/she is supposed to be able to teach? Over the years I have heard the "well I can overlook that stuff because he/she is such a good teacher..."

Even if that is true, isn't or shouldn't there be a character judgement being made? Is any skill THAT rare or important to learn that you have to "hold your nose" while you learn it?

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company."

-George Washington

Maybe I lack a component of dedication/loyalty, but Ive disassociated myself from people/groups in the past quite quickly when I discovered things that I didn't want to be linked to.

I'm betting there are several of this guys students who will still defend or rationalize his SEAL stories right now.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Transk53]

Where does the character of the person overcome the value of what he/she is supposed to be able to teach? Over the years I have heard the "well I can overlook that stuff because he/she is such a good teacher..."

Even if that is true, isn't or shouldn't there be a character judgement being made? Is any skill THAT rare or important to learn that you have to "hold your nose" while you learn it?

Perhaps or perhaps not. This guy did proclaim himself as being a SEAL. To me that is a lack of moral conscience and quite a dangerous mindset.

 

[Grenadier]

Perhaps or perhaps not. This guy did proclaim himself as being a SEAL. To me that is a lack of moral conscience and quite a dangerous mindset.

Considering that this is a federal crime (if I recall correctly, impersonating military personnel falls under this category), this would certainly put him in the "disqualified" zone for me, even if the other crimes weren't on his rather decorated rap sheet.

 

[Tgace]

Perhaps or perhaps not. This guy did proclaim himself as being a SEAL. To me that is a lack of moral conscience and quite a dangerous mindset.

There's no MA instruction out there worth association with questionable people that you cant find elsewhere IMO.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

There's no MA instruction out there worth association with questionable people that you cant find elsewhere IMO.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Absolutley 100%!!!!

 

[Carol]

How do you spot felons?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Tgace]

How do you spot felons?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I don't think its about spotting bad character beforehand as much as its about what you do once its discovered.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I agree with that Tgace. Yet, before you study with someone you should check around and see if there is anything negative about them. Who knows just a couple of checks and you may get glowing information or some thing negative.

 

[CNida]

Lol its purely coincidental but I live in the next town over from Garfield. Tgace how did you find this? Do you live in the area?


____________________________

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."

 

[Tgace]

Lol its purely coincidental but I live in the next town over from Garfield. Tgace how did you find this? Do you live in the area?


____________________________

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."

Facebook contacts in the tactical/swat/firearms circles.....

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[CNida]

Got ya.


____________________________

"Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens."

 

[Tgace]

I agree with that Tgace. Yet, before you study with someone you should check around and see if there is anything negative about them. Who knows just a couple of checks and you may get glowing information or some thing negative.

Very true. I wonder what's more difficult...doing the homework beforehand or making a break from a person/org after you have invested your time and for some people self-worth/self-esteem into a teacher or school?


Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Very true. I wonder what's more difficult...doing the homework beforehand or making a break from a person/org after you have invested your time and for some people self-worth/self-esteem into a teacher or school?


Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

I think it is a lot easier to do the homework before hand. Once invested in anything people have a problem breaking away. Especially if they are heavily invested ie. an instructor in a system.

 

[clfsean]

Interwebz... it's there for more than forum surfing... :spock:

 

[clfsean]

I think it is a lot easier to do the homework before hand. Once invested in anything people have a problem breaking away. Especially if they are heavily invested ie. an instructor in a system.

Much truth in that especially when the rest of the world is pointing at you & your Emperor sharing the same garments from the same tailor.

 

[MJS]

...who cares if he is a liar?

http://www.4029tv.com/news/arkansas...-arrested-by-authorities-in-garfield/24483948



Where is the line between "harmless fibs" and outright lies when it comes to these martial arts/firearms trainers?

Thank God for guys like Don Shipley, a legit, retired SEAL, who digs up the dirt on **** bags like Dicken! As far as lying about his military career...disgusting..absolutely disgusting! This POS is either a wanna-be, or just someone who couldn't hack the training, dropped out, but still wants to 'live the dream', which is really a disservice to the real men and women who fight for this country. Regarding his 'training' school...well, let the buyer beware. Can't stress it enough, but this is why people really need to do their homework. Nowadays, you've got a lot of people making claims. Everywhere you look, someone claims to have taught or is teaching military. Sure, maybe they are...or maybe they're just trying to be someone they're not.

Why lie? Why fib? Why not just be honest?

 

[Carol]

Very true. I wonder what's more difficult...doing the homework beforehand or making a break from a person/org after you have invested your time and for some people self-worth/self-esteem into a teacher or school?


Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

They both have very distinct challenges. And neither should be exclusive of the other. Both are needed for good stewardship.

Checking around beforehand is important. I actually think it is harder to do this beforehand in an effective manner. Novitiate students typically do not have the experience to grasp concepts such as lineage, or to understand what attributes may be valuable to them as their training progresses. Additionally, checking around beforehand is done in a relatively short window of time, where training is done over the course of years.

Remaining a bit vigilant can clue a student in to someone who is going off the deep end. Perhaps there are some frauds who burst right on the scene as an unknown with a stellar work of fiction as their resume, but I suspect the more likely scenario is that charlatans start small and then build their fabrication further as they earn people's trust.