Welcome to the 13th century, NC!

[Master Dan]

Hey on CNN they just posted the top 5 cities for Porn in the US and NC had 2 out of 5 of the top 5 this is based on reserch data of streaming porn buying and renting Porn DVD's It never fails when the far right righteous goes off they tend to be guilty of far more than those they choose to hate or opress. You gotta love it? I think our economic stress as a country has led the Conservative factions to need to do something and in all Facists forums they feel better when they can point the finger at others for being to blame or make themselves feel better by saying that group or those people are bad? I hope 2012 election will point out that there are more sane people in the US than not?

 

[Steve]

I have a question. Isn't the broader issue of state sanctioned discrimination larger than this one issue? What I mean is, even of you are against gay marriage, can you not also agree that it is unjust to ratify discrimination against any group? It's not the issue of gay marriage that's the real nut. That's just the vehicle.

In other words, we are free to disapprove of gay marriage. You already have that ability and dont need a law to do so. But shouldn't we also be free to approve of it, as well? If we choose? Shouldn't we be free to discriminate or not? These amendments take away the ability to choose not to discriminate. That's oppressive in a completely scary new way.




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[ballen0351]

Hey on CNN they just posted the top 5 cities for Porn in the US and NC had 2 out of 5 of the top 5 this is based on reserch data of streaming porn buying and renting Porn DVD's It never fails when the far right righteous goes off they tend to be guilty of far more than those they choose to hate or opress. You gotta love it? I think our economic stress as a country has led the Conservative factions to need to do something and in all Facists forums they feel better when they can point the finger at others for being to blame or make themselves feel better by saying that group or those people are bad? I hope 2012 election will point out that there are more sane people in the US than not?

So whats your excuse as to why it was voted down twice in Cali? Thats not exactly a far right state

 

[Sukerkin]

Good point, Steve.

Here's Roger Water's rather chilling verse on the matter:

So ya
Thought ya
Might like to
Go to the show.
To feel that warm thrill of confusion,
That space cadet glow.
I've got some bad news for you sunshine,
Pink isn't well, he stayed back at the hotel
And they sent us along as a surrogate band
We're gonna find out where you folks really stand.

Are there any queers in the theater tonight?
Get them up against the wall!
There's one in the spotlight, he don't look right to me,
Get him up against the wall!
That one looks Jewish!
And that one's a coon!
Who let all of this riff-raff into the room?
There's one smoking a joint,
And another with spots!
If I had my way,
I'd have all of you shot!

 

[ballen0351]

I have a question. Isn't the broader issue of state sanctioned discrimination larger than this one issue? What I mean is, even of you are against gay marriage, can you not also agree that it is unjust to ratify discrimination against any group? It's not the issue of gay marriage that's the real nut. That's just the vehicle.

In other words, we are free to disapprove of gay marriage. You already have that ability and dont need a law to do so. But shouldn't we also be free to approve of it, as well? If we choose? Shouldn't we be free to discriminate or not? These amendments take away the ability to choose not to discriminate. That's oppressive in a completely scary new way.




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People dont think in that wide a scope. People only see that one issue and wont look beyond it. So you may be right that it opens the door to discrimination against others groups nobody worrys about that until it happens

 

[Steve]

What about you, ballen? I'm not asking people. I'm asking those of you in this thread who have no apparent problem with whats happening.

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[WC_lun]

Steve, for some I think that is why this is such a big deal. Others it is a bit more personal, knowing people that are directly effected by these laws.

For me, I don't like having the Christian right telling me that I must follow laws based upon thier understanding of thier religion and no other reason. Then I have friends that are gay and have seen the heartache involved when partners of many years are not given spousal rights. Including a house being sold out from underneath a gay partner of many years of a deseased man, because the dead mans family did not believe the gay lifestyle was valid AND they were greedy. He was kicked out on the street, destitute because of the prolonged ilness of the man who died. I have seen a gay woman not be able to spend her last moment on earth with the woman she's been with for many years, because legally they were't related or married. These things happen because someone else wants to legislate thier own religion upon others. Majority rule vote, in this case, just does not cut it in my book. Not when there is no other basis for the law than prejudice.

 

[billc]

Hmmm...since 2/3 of the African American voters also voted against the gay marriage thing I was wondering, if as in an earlier post people who are against it just aren't ignorant, but stupid, does this mean they are stupid as well? Does this mean they are right wing extremists as well?

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76133.html

African-Americans voted 2-1 in favor of the North Carolina amendment banning gay marriage Tuesday, but the White House is betting that black voters there and beyond will stick with the president, despite broad resistance to legalization.

 

[Sukerkin]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make, BillC . It is established fact (from answers to surveys) that homophobia is pretty high in the African American population, even in this day and age. So, given that, I can't see that what you say carries a great deal of relevance to the core topic, that I suspect you are alluding to, that the driving force behind keeping 'gay' marriage illegal is a narrow cleaving to an Old Testament directive.

Admittedly, that directive was pretty darned unequivocal but wasn't it and a swathe of other Old Covenant laws essentially revoked by the New Covenant that Christ created? Probably fodder for another thread there.

 

[billc]

Well, part of it would be that the topic of inter-racial marriage is being used in the argument, and the people in NC are being painted as white red necks who didn't like that either. The issue stretches beyond one racial group. I'm sure if you polled the various latin communities around the country they also would be against gay marriage. Just trying to keep this in perspective.

 

[ballen0351]

What about you, ballen? I'm not asking people. I'm asking those of you in this thread who have no apparent problem with whats happening.

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I think if you dont like the law move. If the people in NC want this law i as someone from Maryland have no right to tell them how to run there state. I think at some point tge SCOTUS will over turn the ban and i really dont care one way or the other. Im not gay it does not effect me. I just enjoy the debate. I do find the dont push your beliefs on me to be a funny argument since thats exactly thats the same thing the pro gay side is doing as well.

 

[WC_lun]

So let me get this straight, no pun intended. If my state passes a law that tramples on my civil rights, I should try to get another job in another state and spend my hard earned money to buy a house in another state and move? That makes no sense to me. I should not have to move to another state in this United States in order to recieve civil rights afforded me by the NATIONAL constitution. No one should have to move because of prejudice.

 

[ballen0351]

So let me get this straight, no pun intended. If my state passes a law that tramples on my civil rights, I should try to get another job in another state and spend my hard earned money to buy a house in another state and move? That makes no sense to me. I should not have to move to another state in this United States in order to recieve civil rights afforded me by the NATIONAL constitution. No one should have to move because of prejudice.

Except the National constitution does not protect a right to be married.

If a state passes a law you dont like you have 3 choices

Move to a state with better laws

Fight to change the law

Or deal with it.

Thats it really unless you can think of a 4th?
calling people stupid red necks or evil christians really does not do much except i guess make you feel better about yourself at how "enlightened" you are compared to everyone else

 

[WC_lun]

As has been pointed out, it does. though to be fair that does not seem to make a difference to some law makers.

Notice I never called anyone "stupid red necks or evil christians." I named them as they are, prejudiced. Unless you can show me a reason other than prejudice that these type of laws have been passed, I stand by that characterization.

 

[ballen0351]

As has been pointed out, it does. though to be fair that does not seem to make a difference to some law makers.

Notice I never called anyone "stupid red necks or evil christians." I named them as they are, prejudiced. Unless you can show me a reason other than prejudice that these type of laws have been passed, I stand by that characterization.

You may not have called them that but others have like to picture of the state that ahowed only the college citys voted against the ban as to imply the rest of the state has never been to college and only educated people voted against the ban.

 

[Sukerkin]

If that is true it is pretty damning. I am assuming that you are saying it is not so?

 

[Steve]

I think if you dont like the law move. If the people in NC want this law i as someone from Maryland have no right to tell them how to run there state. I think at some point tge SCOTUS will over turn the ban and i really dont care one way or the other. Im not gay it does not effect me. I just enjoy the debate. I do find the dont push your beliefs on me to be a funny argument since thats exactly thats the same thing the pro gay side is doing as well.

So there would be no problem if a state wanted to ban brunettes from getting food stamps? Or prohibiting obese people from using the public library? Or cops from getting married? Or people who have body piercings from running for state office? All of these are arbitrary sub sets of people being denied what are otherwise government benefits most of us take for granted.


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[Bob Hubbard]

Bob all thats fine and dandy but you seem to imply a person should not vote their beliefs because you disagree with them. If i believe gay marriage is wrong should i not vote that way? I cant help it more people believe the same way i do then believe the way you do.

No, vote your beliefs is fine.

But make it an educated vote so that you are actually voting the way you think you are voting.

Or putting it another way, if you are pro-gay then make sure that's how your vote goes. Same with anti.

You should never have to say "I thought it meant something else" after you vote on something.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Except the National constitution does not protect a right to be married.

Actually, it does. Which is what Article IV, section 1 & Amendment 10 cover, in part.

Alabama can't have a law denying blacks the ability to marry.

So why can they have a law doing that to gays?

Can they do that to retards?

 

[ballen0351]

So there would be no problem if a state wanted to ban brunettes from getting food stamps? Or prohibiting obese people from using the public library? Or cops from getting married? Or people who have body piercings from running for state office? All of these are arbitrary sub sets of people being denied what are otherwise government benefits most of us take for granted.


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Like i said if you get enough people on your side it is what it is. You cant say let the people decide and then get pissed when they dont decide how you want. Its ok for the people to legalize marijuana thats power to the people but when they say sorry no gay weddings its people are stupid we need the govt to step in and fix this.

You cant say people have spoken about health care reform and people are atupid about gay marriage.

When this was set up for a vote the pro gay side had just as much chance and the non gay side to get it passed or failed. They did a crappy job getting there message out. Thats on them.