Weaver

[TallAdam85]

Just wondering what the waver at your school is?
Just wondering because i need to write my own soon and want to see how they look before I take to my lawyer.

 

[wade]

Mine is an 85 year old Amish woman. She does excellent work and I would recommend her to anyone.

 

[Kacey]

Honestly? Waivers aren't worth the paper they're printed on, if someone decides to sue you. I don't have a specific one - the Y has one for anyone who signs up for anything - but if you look around your area, you should be able to find a store that sells contracts, divorce paperwork, and other legal forms, and they probably have a boilerplate version you can use or adapt. Also, you're going to need insurance - so when you contact your insurer (I recommend www.karateinsurance.com) they usually have standard waivers available.

 

[wade]

Uh, so talladam, you don't really need a weaver then after all? :lookie:

 

[TallAdam85]

no i dont need a weaver maybe a copy of the song dream weaver

 

[TallAdam85]

http://www.karateinsurance.com/Waiver.htm

 

[howard]

Honestly? Waivers aren't worth the paper they're printed on, if someone decides to sue you.

Sorry, but that's incorrect.

Waivers are valid legal instruments provided that they meet certain conditions. Similar to contracts in that respect.

TallAdam, have a look at at the legal concepts of assumption of risk and volenti non fit injuria, and do a little reading about tort law. Here's a good example of an implicit waiver of legal recourse: you go to a major league baseball game and get injured by a hard-hit foul ball. It's highly unlikely that you will have recourse to any legal remedy against the stadium or the teams, although they may agree to pay for your medical treatment as a business practice.

If you want to create a waiver that will stand up in court, consult with a licensed attorney in your state and discuss your situation in detail. Why not use google, there must be plenty of boilerplate waivers available free on the internet.

 

[Kacey]

Sorry, but that's incorrect.

Waivers are valid legal instruments provided that they meet certain conditions. Similar to contracts in that respect.

TallAdam, have a look at at the legal concepts of assumption of risk and volenti non fit injuria, and do a little reading about tort law. Here's a good example of an implicit waiver of legal recourse: you go to a major league baseball game and get injured by a hard-hit foul ball. It's highly unlikely that you will have recourse to any legal remedy against the stadium or the teams, although they may agree to pay for your medical treatment as a business practice.

If you want to create a waiver that will stand up in court, consult with a licensed attorney in your state and discuss your situation in detail. Why not use google, there must be plenty of boilerplate waivers available free on the internet.

Howard, I understand what you're saying - but I'm going by what several lawyers (including a couple of martial artists) have told me.

A waiver indicates informed consent - but it doesn't really do any good if someone tries to sue you for an injury that they claim is outside the limits of the waiver itself. I'm not saying don't have one - I'm just saying don't put too much weight on it, and certainly don't think that having a waiver negates the need for insurance or caution in instruction.

 

[howard]

Howard, I understand what you're saying... A waiver indicates informed consent - but it doesn't really do any good if someone tries to sue you for an injury that they claim is outside the limits of the waiver itself. I'm not saying don't have one - I'm just saying don't put too much weight on it, and certainly don't think that having a waiver negates the need for insurance or caution in instruction.

Hi Kacey,

You're exactly right IMO. Informed consent is critical to an enforceable waiver. Very similar to the concept of contractual capacity with regard to contracts. Also, as you note, the waiver will not cover anything that occurs outside its terms.

I agree with you again on insurance. I would never operate a school without it. An ironclad waiver is no assurance that somebody won't sue you anyway, and then you're sucked into the legal system, with all of the money and time that involves.

Hope you don't think I was trying to start an argument, as I wasn't... just wanted to point out that waivers can be enforceable. Actually, they're used in business situations much more than they are in situations like MA schools.

Thanks for your response.

btw... TallAdam, I googled waivers and found a huge number of examples of waivers for responsibility for injury during physical activities. Many were from places like well-known and highly regarded US universities. So, you should have no problem finding something that will meet your needs.

 

[tellner]

Honestly? Waivers aren't worth the paper they're printed on, if someone decides to sue you.

That's actually not true. It's a prime example of why going to tha Intrawebs for legal advice is a bad thing. We used an experienced contract lawyer the last time we had an event. He explained that their worth varies widely from State to State and depend very much on the wording, the local laws and court precedents.

For medical advice, see a doctor.
For legal advice see a lawyer.

 

[Kacey]

That's actually not true. It's a prime example of why going to tha Intrawebs for legal advice is a bad thing. We used an experienced contract lawyer the last time we had an event. He explained that their worth varies widely from State to State and depend very much on the wording, the local laws and court precedents.

For medical advice, see a doctor.
For legal advice see a lawyer.

Had you read my next post before responding, you would have seen that I did.

 

[tellner]

Sorry. Only half the page rendered. If I'd seen what you'd written afterwards I would have phrased it differently. But the point is still valid. Waivers are a useful tool when drawn up by an attorney familiar with contract law and used correctly. They are not "not worth the paper they're printed on".

 

[jks9199]

The "simple truth" regarding the validity of a waiver is that it's NOT simple.

It depends on the specific wording of the waiver, the laws and precedential decisions in the state, and on the alleged failing. One thing, though, that a waiver can show is that the participants were advised of the risks and rules before they participated.

You really need to consult a lawyer versed in the issues before you open a school or start a business. Additionally, insurance may require the waiver even if rulings in the state show that they don't carry much weight. After all, not only does the waiver show that the participant was advised and voluntarily participated, but they can sometimes deter some of the cases...