WC Beginning Training = Watching Paint Dry?

[paulus]

I much prefer to train SLT at home, in front of a mirror, slowly, while saving as much time in my class for the way our class is currently set up.

Me too. Anything that I can train away from class I prefer to do on my own, whilst reserving class time for stuff I can only do with other people. It's good to do a bit of form work in class every now and then, though, just to get mistakes corrected.

It was only recently I found somewhere to train that had mirrors and it is so much better. I can finally see when my shoulders are lopsided and my fuk saus are off to the side etc.

 

[Hagakure]

Me too. Anything that I can train away from class I prefer to do on my own, whilst reserving class time for stuff I can only do with other people. It's good to do a bit of form work in class every now and then, though, just to get mistakes corrected.

It was only recently I found somewhere to train that had mirrors and it is so much better. I can finally see when my shoulders are lopsided and my fuk saus are off to the side etc.

Mate, I train it wherever I can, even parts of it when sitting down at work. Get some funny looks mind you.

I totally agree that it's essential to ensure correct form, unfortunately, the one major disadvantage in my class is that there are no mirrors where we train, so we can't necessarily always see ourselves where we can correct posture. Eventually, you can feel correct posture, but as a new starter, I think it's handy to be able to see yourself too.

 

[paulus]

But to me the basics made me stronger and gave me alot of energy and revved you up to fight. After practicing those daily...your fist be itching to strike. You feet be twitching to kick. Its weird. I feels you up with so much aggression.

To me that doesn't sound like the ideal state to be in. Surely it's better to be relaxed in your mind as well as your body?

In contrast, SLT tends to have a calming effect on me especially the longer I practise it.

 

[AceHBK]

Well in my school we do SLT throughout the whole 2 hour class. When I 1st get to class we do SLT and maybe pak sao & pak dar. After 1 round of pak sao we do SLT then back to par sao again then back to SLT. I do it throughtout the whole class between exercises. Then before class ends we do conditioning. Conditioning may consist of 600 chain punches, 200 front kicks & 4 SLT.

So when I say I do SLT, I really do it pretty much all night along with other stuff. That is why I asked why do you do it so much.

It looks like I maybe the only person training like this. I understand that it helps you relax after a exercise and all.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Very interesting sounds pretty good.

Well in my school we do SLT throughout the whole 2 hour class. When I 1st get to class we do SLT and maybe pak sao & pak dar. After 1 round of pak sao we do SLT then back to par sao again then back to SLT. I do it throughtout the whole class between exercises. Then before class ends we do conditioning. Conditioning may consist of 600 chain punches, 200 front kicks & 4 SLT.

So when I say I do SLT, I really do it pretty much all night along with other stuff. That is why I asked why do you do it so much.

It looks like I maybe the only person training like this. I understand that it helps you relax after a exercise and all.

 

[mook jong man]

Well in my school we do SLT throughout the whole 2 hour class. When I 1st get to class we do SLT and maybe pak sao & pak dar. After 1 round of pak sao we do SLT then back to par sao again then back to SLT. I do it throughtout the whole class between exercises. Then before class ends we do conditioning. Conditioning may consist of 600 chain punches, 200 front kicks & 4 SLT.

So when I say I do SLT, I really do it pretty much all night along with other stuff. That is why I asked why do you do it so much.

It looks like I maybe the only person training like this. I understand that it helps you relax after a exercise and all.

At our school we did a 10 min warm up and stretch , then SLT for five mins . Then chi sau for 20 mins , self defence applications for 40 mins. Then finish of with chi sau sparring for 15 mins , conditioning or power training on the pads .

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Sounds like a great start...wounderful...

At our school we did a 10 min warm up and stretch , then SLT for five mins . Then chi sau for 20 mins , self defence applications for 40 mins. Then finish of with chi sau sparring for 15 mins , conditioning or power training on the pads .

 

[qwksilver61]

all in your head man.....I knew this cat...he was so intense...that he had to scrutinize everything man..he would get so frustrated...and I would tell him
"hey man,you're spinning your wheels! reeelllaaaaxx....don't think just doooooo...!" this stuff is part meditation part Tao! This is only one piece of a bigger puzzle,but also the root seed you dig? So then it was no longer boring.
Besides you are building Chi,developing an elastic body/mind,your body is in a state of yin yang,and your brain is firing in both hemispheres....cool Huh!not bad for something that's at least 350 to 400 yrs old!

 

[AceHBK]

I just realized yesterday after class that I have only learned a part of SLT. I haven't been doing the whole thing. My Sifu breaks it down into 3 parts I believe and only taught me the beginning part.

 

[chisauking]

I personally believe that wing chun -- whether the begining or end -- is only as interesting as the sifu\teacher make it, and in my opinion, many, many teachers make it far more complicated than it is.

After experimenting with the teaching of the SLT to one of my students in less than 2-lessons in 2-weeks, I have found that they can perform the form just as good as most people who's practiced for many years. Off course, they can't use all the tools contained within, but at least they have the tools to practice with.

Some practitioners have critercised and openly dissmissed my findings, saying that students can't have perfected the form in 2-weeks. This is true, but then my objectives isn't to teach my students so slow that I only progress them when they have perfected each stage of the form. I rather teach them the whole form quickly and let them 'play' with the form early on so at least they know about the tools, and then it's up to time and effort for them to perfect the form. A good analogy of my method would be to teaching a learner driver how to drive. No one would teach a learner driver how to change into 1st gear, and then only progress them further when they have perfected how to change into 1st gear. They would show them 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th gear, and then let them perfect changing between gears.

If you can understand the analogy above, then one can understand my teaching methods.

If anyone doubts my wing chun training methods, they are welcome to come and see my students, and compare forms.

Further more, in my experiences, the schools that hold their students back by showing the forms at an extremely slow pace, tend to stagnate their students eventual developments. Boredom sets in and they no longer want to learn something that was conceived to be simple and easy to begin with.

 

[Hagakure]

I personally believe that wing chun -- whether the begining or end -- is only as interesting as the sifu\teacher make it, and in my opinion, many, many teachers make it far more complicated than it is.

After experimenting with the teaching of the SLT to one of my students in less than 2-lessons in 2-weeks, I have found that they can perform the form just as good as most people who's practiced for many years. Off course, they can't use all the tools contained within, but at least they have the tools to practice with.

Some practitioners have critercised and openly dissmissed my findings, saying that students can't have perfected the form in 2-weeks. This is true, but then my objectives isn't to teach my students so slow that I only progress them when they have perfected each stage of the form. I rather teach them the whole form quickly and let them 'play' with the form early on so at least they know about the tools, and then it's up to time and effort for them to perfect the form. A good analogy of my method would be to teaching a learner driver how to drive. No one would teach a learner driver how to change into 1st gear, and then only progress them further when they have perfected how to change into 1st gear. They would show them 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th gear, and then let them perfect changing between gears.

If you can understand the analogy above, then one can understand my teaching methods.

If anyone doubts my wing chun training methods, they are welcome to come and see my students, and compare forms.

Further more, in my experiences, the schools that hold their students back by showing the forms at an extremely slow pace, tend to stagnate their students eventual developments. Boredom sets in and they no longer want to learn something that was conceived to be simple and easy to begin with.

Very, very well put. Bravo.

 

[Beginner's Mind]

I don't want to disrespect or question anyone's methods - especially when I haven't seen them firsthand. But generally speaking, when I hear a Sifu is overemphasizing a certain exercise, like the 1st form, I get a little weary.

In my gym, we perform the 1st form twice in the beginning, the first time being a chance for a senior student to lead. We do it once again at the end. A part of the training is also dedicated to studying a specific technique from the form, from slow and static to fast and dynamic drills. There's also sparring, chi sau, hitting the rice-filled bags etc. I like this regime as I feel every aspect of a training session is reinforcing every other. Better static drills = fluid and relaxed dynamic drills = better form = better static drills = ...

 

[AceHBK]

I should have better clarified myself when I made this thread. I assumed that everyone is taught SLT in 3 seperate parts. My teacher breaks it down and teaches each part instead of showing you the whole thing and you working on it. Being that for 2 weeks I am only doing 1/3 of it all the time is why I feel it is boring. Again this was my fault for not clarifying but I thought everyone is taught this way.

I have previous MA experience (TKD & Kung Fu) so learning a form comes easier than say someone with no MA experience walking in the door. Learning the form is easy but it is the subtle things in the form, which are the most important of course (hand position, elbow structure...aka the "little things") that take time in perfecting.

 

[Hagakure]

I should have better clarified myself when I made this thread. I assumed that everyone is taught SLT in 3 seperate parts. My teacher breaks it down and teaches each part instead of showing you the whole thing and you working on it. Being that for 2 weeks I am only doing 1/3 of it all the time is why I feel it is boring. Again this was my fault for not clarifying but I thought everyone is taught this way.

I have previous MA experience (TKD & Kung Fu) so learning a form comes easier than say someone with no MA experience walking in the door. Learning the form is easy but it is the subtle things in the form, which are the most important of course (hand position, elbow structure...aka the "little things") that take time in perfecting.

My sifu was pretty much *BOSH* straight into it, learned the whole form at once. Did I pick it up immediately? Nope, took a good few lessons to get things to an acceptable level. I guess in terms of the nuances, you could spend a life time trying to perfect it, and still never really achieve it. Besides, learning it to a standard of perfection is unachievable in my view.

I sometimes think that some MAs may be a little guilty of even now trying to mystify something, and train it soooo slowly like it's some mystical secret that only years of training can make it something approximating perfection. I agree that that can be beneficial in its own right, for me however, I want something I can use pretty quickly. Not saying I want to enter the UFC next year, but I also don't want to spend hard time, money and effort in something that takes years to materialise as a MA to defend myself/family with. That was why I was drawn to WC, and it's simplicity as Beginners Mind said.

I found it relatively easy to learn the whole shabang, then just tweaked and made it more efficient from there.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Yea, my Sifu pretty much taught the whole form all together. It took us about three classes to begin to refine it. But the first class we got the skeleton an as years went on SLT started to open up and speak to soul. Now when I perform SLT I learn from just doing it. I learn new applications and different ways of applying energy.

But then we would usually practice SLT two or three times in class. Along with many other forms we had learned. It was long ago.

A buddy of mines from highschool got SLT pretty quickly it was rather interesting. He learn the form in one day. I showed it to him an we drilled it over and over again for like an hour. He pretty much had almost the whole form. There were only two parts he was rusty on. Which is good for beginner just starting out on WC. I did the form with him for a couple more weeks an now he has got it. Pretty cool.

 

[dnovice]

As you know I have started WC.
I am doing SLT and other small beginning stuff. I must be honest, it is like watching paint dry. I was watching Gary Lam talking about WC and I felt better when he said "when you start out it isn't very interesting and is boring".

I realize that I am trying to train my mind and body but man it is boooooooring! Why must you do SLT so much!?!?

lol Ace. How's it going now? Where are you up to now in the forms. I was sifting through old post when i saw this and just had to comment.

My first day doing wing Chun, we didn't even learn the slt, we just sat in a horse stance for an hour and a half to two hours. lol. After that, tons of people dropped out leaving only the dedicated. lol.

 

[AceHBK]

lol Ace. How's it going now? Where are you up to now in the forms. I was sifting through old post when i saw this and just had to comment.

My first day doing wing Chun, we didn't even learn the slt, we just sat in a horse stance for an hour and a half to two hours. lol. After that, tons of people dropped out leaving only the dedicated. lol.

Well I have been doing it for 3 months and have only learned the 1st & 2nd part of SLT. My Sifu has told me I am making a mistake but refuses to tell me what it is that I am doing wrong. Says I need to figure it out. Drove me nuts at first now I don't care anymore.

I learned Pak Sao and Pak Dar early on. I have been working on Lap Sao for a little over a month.

Wow...that was the first class?? Why even accept students if you do that? Might as well had ya'll wash his car, paint the fence, sand the floor....wait....this is sounding familiar.

 

[mook jong man]

Well I have been doing it for 3 months and have only learned the 1st & 2nd part of SLT. My Sifu has told me I am making a mistake but refuses to tell me what it is that I am doing wrong. Says I need to figure it out. Drove me nuts at first now I don't care anymore.

I learned Pak Sao and Pak Dar early on. I have been working on Lap Sao for a little over a month.

Wow...that was the first class?? Why even accept students if you do that? Might as well had ya'll wash his car, paint the fence, sand the floor....wait....this is sounding familiar.

Thats alright when your fees fall due don't pay em , and when he says how come you haven't paid your fees ?

You can say " YOU NEED TO FIGURE THAT OUT "!

 

[dnovice]

Well I have been doing it for 3 months and have only learned the 1st & 2nd part of SLT. My Sifu has told me I am making a mistake but refuses to tell me what it is that I am doing wrong. Says I need to figure it out. Drove me nuts at first now I don't care anymore.

I learned Pak Sao and Pak Dar early on. I have been working on Lap Sao for a little over a month.

Wow...that was the first class?? Why even accept students if you do that? Might as well had ya'll wash his car, paint the fence, sand the floor....wait....this is sounding familiar.

Well, it was acollege club. And my sifu got zero monetary compensation for teaching us.( wasn't a student) I guess he wanted to make sure he wasn't wasting his time.

About your slt problem, you can ask ur senior student or just watch him. Or if u want u can put up a video on YouTube and I'll critic it for u. I did moy yat wc under his son in Chinatown. (till end of chum kiu level).

 

[AceHBK]

Well, it was acollege club. And my sifu got zero monetary compensation for teaching us.( wasn't a student) I guess he wanted to make sure he wasn't wasting his time.

About your slt problem, you can ask ur senior student or just watch him. Or if u want u can put up a video on YouTube and I'll critic it for u. I did moy yat wc under his son in Chinatown. (till end of chum kiu level).

Oh ok. Well I can understand b/c when you doing something for free you do want to make sure that folks are not wasting your time. I would have came back for the second day just to see if the 1st day was a test. If the samething would have happened on the 2nd day just to make sure, I wouldn't have been back for a third. How long have you been with him?

That is the funny thing. There is only one other student in my class. He has been with my Sifu for close to 2 years and I learned SLT from him!!! So yes, we both are doing it wrong!!!!

I may have to post a video. Thanks for the suggestion.

Damn shame when you have to go onto the internet to get MA lessons.