Warm-ups at the Gym

[mber]

I frequent the gym at my school as a supplement to training (although it's not really that frequent, unfortunately) where I've had the opportunity to observe many different types of people engrossed in training. Professors and occasional outsiders pass through too, so there is a fair mix of people even if the majority are college-aged.

As a martial artist, I spend a relatively significant portion of my time at the gym doing warm-ups and stretches, both before and after workouts. But as a general rule, I'm the only one on the mat area for more than a five minute period. Our gym sees power lifters, runners, muscle buffs, boxers, wrestlers -- all sorts of people training, of both sexes, but with rare exception they tend to avoid the mat with something nearing ferocity.
Even those that do come spend more time on pushups, situps, and circuit exercises than on stretching. This tendency seems to be more prevalent in males than females, though even members of the women's running team, who I know need to stay limber, will barely limber up before moving on to strength training exercises.

I fear to seem like I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but this really has me wondering. Granted, not everyone needs to stretch and warm up the same way, and I know I like to take my sweet time. Yet is the belief that a good warm-up can do wonders for your workout really so rare?
I would think the benefits of at least minimal stretching would be well understood, and so many athletes of various sorts have been injured from lack of flexibility, or related consequences. So I have to wonder...what's going on? Am I the only one who thinks working carefully with your body is crucial? Or maybe it's only martial artists? I confess myself confused.

 

[Steve]

I'm certainly no expert, but I've heard that stretching when cold is actually a good way to become injured. I try to actually get warm before doing any stretching.

 

[Cyriacus]

Hm. Its a complex topic, as far as I know. If I for one just want to throw punches on a heavy bag, I can just do some arm swings and circles, then get to it, starting slow and building up. It takes well under five minutes. Ill add in Pushups if I dont want to wait to go 75%-100% power/speed.
For kicking, knee raises and leg raises, then start slow and build up. Under five minutes. Ill add another exercise I dont actually know the name of which involves supporting on a wall then swinging the leg up then back if I dont want to wait to go 60%-90% power/speed.
And so on.
In fact, a couple of times, Ive just started with striking slow and light, and builing up. And done that as a warmup. It works just fine.

Stretching helps with muscle strength and flexibility. Loosening up should be a totally seperate exercise, as should warming up, and perhaps even limbering up. I dont really think much of it is even especially important (Im not saying its bad, or that I for one dont do it. I just dont think its an imperative every day thing).

Now, that said, Im not a very flexible person. I have no intention of developing flexibility. I have never been injured as the result of a lack of flexibility in the 2-3 years Ive been training. When I used to stretch as a preperatory thing, I injured a leg muscle.
So I do admit, I may be a little biased here, by having an injury as a result of stretching, and none as a result of lack of flexibility.
But at the same time, what Im doing is working fine.

 

[jezr74]

Ever since I stopped stretching before exercise, I have stopped feeling sore the next day. I now only warm up and feel so much better for it.


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[Gentle Fist]

I agree with Steve. Warmup first before popping and locking (stretching)

 

[Steve]

When I run warmups, I'll sometimes just have everyone pair up and begin rolling at about 20%. Then, when everyone is nice and warm, I'll do some stretching. I also try to stretch AFTER class, before I get cold. That seems to help my back a lot.

 

[Noah_Legel]

My Personal Fitness and Training classes were about 7 years ago, now, but from what I recall of them, combined with the articles I read every now and then, you should stretch after your workouts, not before. Warm-ups get blood flowing to your muscles and help them relax so that they can be used to their greatest potential with the lowest possibility of injury, and stretches squeeze the blood and lactic acid back out of your muscles (like wringing a wet cloth) so that they can go back to a more neutral state that supports more comfortable maintaining of posture and execution of everyday activities. If you stretch before warming up, all you are just "wringing a dry cloth", as it were, and can lead to injury because you are pulling on muscles that are not relaxed enough to stretch. If you stretch after warming up then you have negated your warm-up before going into your exercises, which is detrimental to your muscles' effectiveness and can lead to injury. Stretching after your cool-down exercises is the most effective time to stretch.

All that said, somebody with more up-to-date information may be more help.

 

[mber]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

I should stress, I said "warm-ups and stretches" very specifically. I meant to include the entire portion of getting your body ready for extreme physical exertion -- not just stretching from a cold start. However, I'm gathering that this is a highly debated topic in general, which I hadn't known.

It seems like it might be fairly common for removing stretching from one's routine being beneficial to general health. But I wonder if that while it might be better to not stretch than to stretch badly, a good stretch, in the right way, would top both of those. I had thought -- and again, I could be wrong here -- that most research suggested that pre-exercise stretching was beneficial.

 

[Steve]

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/pre-exercise-stretching-killing-workout/t/story?id=11835944

Actually, there's a lot of evidence that suggests it does more harm than good. I want to be clear, though, I wasn't saying I'm right and you're wrong. More, this is what I do. As I said, I'm not a fitness guru or anything.


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[K-man]

A couple of articles which I feel give a balanced account.

Use these tips to keep stretching safe:

• Don't consider stretching a warm-up. You may hurt yourself if you stretch cold muscles. So before stretching, warm up with light walking, jogging or biking at low intensity for five to 10 minutes. Or better yet, stretch after you exercise when your muscles are warmed up. Also, consider holding off on stretching before an intense activity, such as sprinting or track and field activities. Some research suggests that pre-event stretching before these types of events may actually decrease performance.
• Focus on major muscle groups. When you're stretching, focus on your calves, thighs, hips, lower back, neck and shoulders. Also stretch muscles and joints that you routinely use at work or play. And make sure that you stretch both sides. For instance, if you stretch your left hamstring, be sure to stretch your right hamstring, too.
• Don't bounce. Bouncing as you stretch can cause small tears in the muscle. These tears leave scar tissue as the muscle heals, which tightens the muscle even further, making you less flexible and more prone to pain. So, hold each stretch for about 30 seconds. Repeat each stretch three or four times.
• Don't aim for pain. Expect to feel tension while you're stretching, not pain. If it hurts, you've pushed too far. Back off to the point where you don't feel any pain, then hold the stretch.
• Make stretches sport specific. Some evidence suggests that it's helpful to do stretches tailored for your sport or activity. If you play soccer, for instance, you're more vulnerable to hamstring strains. So opt for stretches that help your hamstrings.
• Keep up with your stretching. Stretching can be time-consuming. But you can achieve the best benefits by stretching regularly, at least two to three times a week. If you don't stretch regularly, you risk losing any benefits that stretching offered. For instance, if stretching helped you increase your range of motion, and you stop stretching, your range of motion may decrease again.
• Bring movement into your stretching. Gentle movement can help you be more flexible in specific movements. The gentle movements of tai chi, for instance, may be a good way to stretch. And if you're going to perform a specific activity, such as a front kick in martial arts, do the move slowly and at low intensity at first to get your muscles used to it. Then speed up gradually as your muscles become accustomed to the motion.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stretching/HQ01447

[h=2]Tips for Safer Stretching[/h]Even if you avoid dangerous stretches, any type of static stretching before an exercise session can potentially decrease your strength and muscle power, according to Cedric Bryant, chief exercise physiologist for San Diego-based American Council on Exercise. Instead of holding your legs in static stretches, Bryant and other fitness experts recommend warm-ups that include dynamic stretching in which you move your legs in motions similar to those of the exercise or sports activity you are about to perform. Some dynamic stretching exercises that will help warm up your legs include jogging in place, marching in place and walking lunges.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/363519-dangerous-leg-stretches/#ixzz1xAkCVmHn

Recent evidence seems to suggest dynamic stretching is better for you than static stretching.

Another article:

Although static stretching has many advantages, this type of stretching is potentially dangerous before workouts. Stretching before sports not only does not prevent injuries or reduce muscle soreness as many people believe, but it actually impairs your ability to perform at your best. Static stretching before you have begun moving around and your muscles are cold causes microscopic tears of muscle fibers. Five to 20 minutes of active and dynamic stretching using movements that mimic the activity you are about to do warms up the muscles safely before exercise. This type of stretching is safe for athletes and weightlifters pre-workout

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/437963-static-stretching-advantages/#ixzz1xAmgPAE3

We do very little static stretching these days and always after the work out. :asian:

 

[ACJ]

Stretching is overrated as an activity. Static stretching is just bad. The prevalent idea that "it can't be doing any harm" is one of the most harmful ideas.
That being said, you shouldn't just drop stretching as an activity. Your body has adapted to performing after being stretched, one of the biggest risk factors in regards to stretching is changing your routine; i.e going from stretching to not stretching or vice versa. So if you do decide to drop stretching, just remember to start carefully, until your body adapts.

So what is good for mobility and flexibility if stretching is bad? Mobility wise, you want to move; a combination of warming up and moving through the joints that are to be mobilized (particularly in target movement patterns) is the main way to raise mobility. Flexibility can be thought of as strength in an extreme range of motion, which might help you make sense of why relaxed, non-moving stretching, such as a static stretches are not going to help. To develop good flexibility, it is recommended to move through as a full range of motion, under resistance. That is to do resistance exercises properly with weights. A regular person will find that performing 9 basic movement patterns under load will give them all the flexibility they need, but if you wish to do more extreme ranges of motion, there are a few methods, including isometric contraction at the point of "static stretch threshold".

Now warm-ups... Warm-ups are overrated too. As a fitness professional the guideline for warm-ups for my clients is 5 minutes. This is a very conservative, "easiest to avoid all blame," amount of time. There are any number of activities that are safe to do cold that will raise your temperature up by enough to be considered warmed up in well under 5 minutes. That being said, I usually don't need anyone THAT warm. I can typically have someone just move around on the spot for 30 seconds and they're ready to get into warm-up sets of the activities they will be performing. There is no need to continue warming up on the stretching mats. Warming up on the bar tends to be much better.

So my recommendation:
Lightning quick warm up
Specific warm up (might also be lightning and for heavy weights, would be repeated for each movement)
Workout (whatever, speed, skill, resistance, cardiovascular)
Isometric contraction against resistance for flexibility (optional)
Cool down (i.e stop, but don't sit or lie down)

Done.

 

[oftheherd1]

In the Hapkido I studied, we began a sort of warming up and stretching, beginning with breathing exercises, then arm stretches, neck and back stretches, whice move the neck and back as well as stretching. It was done at moderate speed. From there we sat down and began more back and leg stretches, before moving to kicks, which were practice kicks, stamina enhancers, and stretches all together.

I am not that flexible, so I pushed myself constantly. Now that I am getting back into training, I am doing the same. I think in Hapkido that may be a little more practical. We do need to be flexible.

However, I am open to the idea that the need to stretch is something of an idividual thing. I know runners who won't run without a serious set of stretches. I have never needed that, and find it useless if not distracting. I need less flexibility work than some in other areas, but not in the hamstrings. That I will be less likely to cause pain with stretching first before trying a high kick. I don't think that describes everyone, which is why I think it is an individual thing that each practitioner needs to learn about themselves.

Just one further thought. If we don't try to train beyond what we need for a move, we would be likely to hurt ourselves in a real SD situation.

 

[EddieCyrax]

All I know is if I do not warm up and then go through various stretches, I can not effectively perform many of the advanced kicks.

I stretch every day and have improved my flexibilty tremendously over the past 4 years.

I agree this is probably an individual issue, but I personally have benefited from lightly warming-up followed by extensive stretching. My performance, recovery, and overall fitness level have improved.

I think a large part of injuries come from individuals that dont know what they are doing or how to stretch effectively. They push to far or bounce and end up pulling something.

 

[Cyriacus]

All I know is if I do not warm up and then go through various stretches, I can not effectively perform many of the advanced kicks.

I stretch every day and have improved my flexibilty tremendously over the past 4 years.

I agree this is probably an individual issue, but I personally have benefited from lightly warming-up followed by extensive stretching. My performance, recovery, and overall fitness level have improved.

I think a large part of injuries come from individuals that dont know what they are doing or how to stretch effectively. They push to far or bounce and end up pulling something.

I for one was doing it under the supervision of someone more than qualified, and never bounced at all. Or felt pain whilst stretching.

 

[EddieCyrax]

Sounds like you took the right approach.

I for one have find it beneficial and have not experienced any pain/injury from it.

 

[Flying Crane]

I've been training for close to 30 years now and I've always made stretching a part of how I begin a session. I've never had an injury, certainly nothing that I could in any way connect to the fact that I stretched prior.

I walk to my gym, maybe that's enough "warm-up" so that my stretching doesn't injury me. I'm just speculating, I dunno. I do a lot of range-of-motion exercises too, that I suppose are kinda warming up the body and are different from just stretching. Those kinds of things are both in what I do. But I see people referencing research that stretching can be harmful, and I've simply never ever seen that in my own training.

I think a good warm-up is important, and that includes, but is not exclusively, stretching. I know my body feels better after doing the stretching, I feel like I can move more comfortably and easily. After the warm-up, I also gradually work into the martial training with things that gradually get me moving, I don't just jump straight into high-intensity things in the beginning.

 

[Cyriacus]

Sounds like you took the right approach.

I for one have find it beneficial and have not experienced any pain/injury from it.

Exactly Im of the belief that if it benefits You, absolutely do it. But it wont work for everyone.

 

[mber]

Wow.

I was not expecting such a mixed and intense reaction to this topic. I'm not entirely sure what to think, but it's fascinating how so many experienced martial artists are coming down on both sides of the issue so firmly -- if nothing else, I think some information is missing. It's certainly true that equally thoughtful and intelligent people can analyze the same data and come to opposing conclusions, but I hadn't thought it would be this much so.

Though I'm more confused on this issue than ever, you've all inspired me to go do some serious research on the topic and to leave my mind open to both sides of the issue for now -- and for that, thank you!

 

[ACJ]

Wow.

I was not expecting such a mixed and intense reaction to this topic. I'm not entirely sure what to think, but it's fascinating how so many experienced martial artists are coming down on both sides of the issue so firmly -- if nothing else, I think some information is missing. It's certainly true that equally thoughtful and intelligent people can analyze the same data and come to opposing conclusions, but I hadn't thought it would be this much so.

Though I'm more confused on this issue than ever, you've all inspired me to go do some serious research on the topic and to leave my mind open to both sides of the issue for now -- and for that, thank you!

I'm glad you're open to both sides of the argument. As part of your research, maybe you should have a good go at not stretching as part of your warm-up. If you do, please make sure to take it easy but also to give it a fair amount of time, your body may well have to adapt to NOT stretching for the benefits to become apparent.

While there are arguments for both sides; I have ended up going with not static stretching mainly because the stretching sides arguments mainly come from an abundance of anecdotal evidence. Whereas the non-stretching side has quite a number of studies linking static stretching to a decrease in performance, in both athletic and non-athletic populations, as well as having a considerable amount of anecdotal evidence on its side too. Including my own personal experience. I've removed static stretches from my workouts and those of the people I instruct (both in and out of martial arts). I have not seen one injury that I could put on not static stretching, and I have seen in both myself and clients an increase in both post-warmup and cold mobility and flexibility. Furthermore since incorporating "resistance stretching" there has been a faster rate of increase in mobility and flexibility as well.

So I think for the lack of appropriate athlete specific research that is being done, the best way to choose your methods is to record your progress and compare it. Listen to new ideas and old methods with equal skepticism.