Adept
Master Black Belt
FearlessFreep said:
But how would that work with say, a gay couple legally married in, I dunno, Holland or wherever it is legal?
Voluntary Sex With Minors
- Thread starter Kane
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But how would that work with say, a gay couple legally married in, I dunno, Holland or wherever it is legal?
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Xue Sheng said:
Wow, this brings up a question too... while Im sure very very rare compared to the opposite, I can assume it COULD happen... what if a minor Solicits an Adult... or poses as an adult, develops an online relationship and then meets up and is a minor?
Is the adult at that point the Victim or the Predator?
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Technopunk said:
Wow, It makes the child a minor and the adult an adult.
That is assuming once the adult realizes this is a child they back off. If they take advantage of the minor at this point it makes the adult an idiot and very likely they will end up with the label of Child molester, if caught. But not a predator, they were not hunting for a minor online posing as something they are not in order to take advantage.
And I still hold to no amount of solicitation by said minor would cause an adult to have sex with this minor unless the adult was predisposed to this type of act in the first place. But it is possible that the adult truly thought the child was 18 or older. However the fact of the matter is it can mean absolutely nothing in court in at least my state. I am not sure of the laws in all states, but I am guessing they are similar.
There was a similar situation that a friend of mine was involved in the investigation of. The girl was 14 or 15 the male was in his thirties or forties, married with children. The girl told him she was 18, he believed it. She had a diary that she wrote everything down in. Her parents found and read the diary. The guy was arrested and went to jail, not to mention lost his job and family.
It does not matter if a minor tells you they are 18 when they are 14 the adult is still the one that is held responsible. Does that make the adult a victim, possibly? But it matters not to the prosecution or the court. As the statement came out in this case, "one would think the Menudo poster over the bed was a dead giveaway". Even though he never was at her house. And before someone jumps on the obvious, I have absolutely no idea where her parents were or why they had no control. (This case was a long time ago)
As for the 14 or 15-year-old girl, I have no idea what happened to her other than being grounded by her parents. But she certainly did not go to jail or loose her job and family.
Scenario after scenario after scenario is pointless if the child is considered a minor that has not yet reached the age of consent.
tradrockrat
2nd Black Belt
I really can't afford - emotionally - to get into this debate, but I just have to post once, and then I will not be posting again.
Kane - your idealistic approach to you Libertarian beliefs is actually not a bad thing - but you are missing the fundamental truth of humanity- give an inch, and they will take a mile.
I work every day with the aftermath of rape, stautory and otherwise. I have several students who have been through it. In your zeal to acknowledge consent you neglect the reality that most victims are NOT emotionally, socially, or mentally adult enough to know what consent means. When others mention this, you and others like you fall back to a specific age in your argument, like "Oh yeah? So 16 isn't old enough? It was for me!" etc, etc, etc.
Well the reality is if there were no statutory laws, then it wouldn't just be 16 and 17 year olds. It'd be 13, 11, or even 7 years old,and even younger than that.
The ages set out in the law are based upon societal norms and usually take into account the fact that while SOME 16 year olds may be ready and willing - and we all know that they are out there - SOME are not. So the law errs on the side of caution.
I'll sum it up with this:
FACT: many people that are pedophiles aren't in it for the sex - they are in it for the control and the power that comes from dominating and brainwashing a young child into being a source of sexual gratification. There is no love involved, informed consent is in fact exactly what they DO NOT want because it defeats the whole purpose.
FACT: Many other pedophiles are former victims themselves - a fact that would tend to indicate that there is definitely damge caused by the trauma of statutory rape.
Kane - your idealism doesn't hold up under the scrutiny of reality.
Kane - your idealistic approach to you Libertarian beliefs is actually not a bad thing - but you are missing the fundamental truth of humanity- give an inch, and they will take a mile.
I work every day with the aftermath of rape, stautory and otherwise. I have several students who have been through it. In your zeal to acknowledge consent you neglect the reality that most victims are NOT emotionally, socially, or mentally adult enough to know what consent means. When others mention this, you and others like you fall back to a specific age in your argument, like "Oh yeah? So 16 isn't old enough? It was for me!" etc, etc, etc.
Well the reality is if there were no statutory laws, then it wouldn't just be 16 and 17 year olds. It'd be 13, 11, or even 7 years old,and even younger than that.
The ages set out in the law are based upon societal norms and usually take into account the fact that while SOME 16 year olds may be ready and willing - and we all know that they are out there - SOME are not. So the law errs on the side of caution.
I'll sum it up with this:
FACT: many people that are pedophiles aren't in it for the sex - they are in it for the control and the power that comes from dominating and brainwashing a young child into being a source of sexual gratification. There is no love involved, informed consent is in fact exactly what they DO NOT want because it defeats the whole purpose.
FACT: Many other pedophiles are former victims themselves - a fact that would tend to indicate that there is definitely damge caused by the trauma of statutory rape.
Kane - your idealism doesn't hold up under the scrutiny of reality.
DeLamar.J
3rd Black Belt
There is physical force, and psychological force. Both are very deadly. Most young girls are not wise to the mental games adults play, so its up to the parents to educate them and keep them safe. The law is there, but in most cases they show up after the damage has been done.
FearlessFreep said:
A note about this...states don't recognize marriages because they're nice...they are required by law to give full faith and credit towards things like marriage that has been recognized by another state. This also raises a giant issue with DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) that was instituted so if one state allowed homosexual marriages, other states wouldn't have to recognize it...
Ronin Moose
Blue Belt
Seems like KANE spun us like a top, then stepped back to watch the fireworks. We haven't heard from him in several pages (not that I really want to).
JBrainard
Senior Master
Ronin Moose said:
He's probably busy keeping up his strong denial of how his sexual history may have screwed his perceptions. I once knew I guy who talked just like Kane did. He was mollested when he was 8.
This thread has pretty much run its course. At this time, its being closed for discussion.
Mike Slosek
MT Supermod
Mike Slosek
MT Supermod
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