Video of aikido techniques against full resistance

[O'Malley]

Some time ago I found this gem of a video, which supports the hypothesis that daito-ryu and its more popular offshoot, aikido, are based on a mix of Sokaku Takeda's experiences in sumo and esoteric training.

There are similarities but the sample is too restricted. I would love to see a comparison between sumo's 82 kimarite and the full catalogue of daito-ryu techniques.

Thoughts?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Man, the main thing I think of when I see these, is that a lot of the intent of Daito-ryu may have gotten lost along the way in NGA. Some day, I'd like to chat with you about some of these techniques and the rough analogs I've experienced.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some time ago I found this gem of a video, which supports the hypothesis that daito-ryu and its more popular offshoot, aikido, are based on a mix of Sokaku Takeda's experiences in sumo and esoteric training.

There are similarities but the sample is too restricted. I would love to see a comparison between sumo's 82 kimarite and the full catalogue of daito-ryu techniques.

Thoughts?

New to me.

 

[O'Malley]

Man, the main thing I think of when I see these, is that a lot of the intent of Daito-ryu may have gotten lost along the way in NGA. Some day, I'd like to chat with you about some of these techniques and the rough analogs I've experienced.

It would be a pleasure to chat, even though I'm not sure to have much to share about technique, as I'm not a daito-ryu expert (nor an aikido expert for that matter, I train hard but I've only been training for a few years, one of which without access to a qualified instructor).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It would be a pleasure to chat, even though I'm not sure to have much to share about technique, as I'm not a daito-ryu expert (nor an aikido expert for that matter, I train hard but I've only been training for a few years, one of which without access to a qualified instructor).

Your training is probably closer to the original Daito-ryu than mine. I don't want to drag this discussion too far off-topic, so I'll drop you a PM to explain that comment.

 

[Buka]

The title of this thread should have been Video of Sumo techniques against full resistance.
Other than AikiNage I didn't see much resistance. Still great to watch, though.

 

[Martial D]

Some time ago I found this gem of a video, which supports the hypothesis that daito-ryu and its more popular offshoot, aikido, are based on a mix of Sokaku Takeda's experiences in sumo and esoteric training.

There are similarities but the sample is too restricted. I would love to see a comparison between sumo's 82 kimarite and the full catalogue of daito-ryu techniques.

Thoughts?

So what you are saying is that to get working aikido take a sumo lesson?

 

[Encho]

I am sure there is a good amount of Sumo techniques in Daito Ryu, Obi otoshi from what I recall was told to us to be based on Sumo, Some techniques in my opinion are clearly based on Sword. Since Asayama Ichiden Ryu is from that area there may be some of that as well in Daito Ryu.

 

[O'Malley]

The title of this thread should have been Video of Sumo techniques against full resistance.
Other than AikiNage I didn't see much resistance. Still great to watch, though.

Well, the title was a bit provocative but the point is that some techniques within aikido are just sumo techniques formalised into a kata. Therefore, if one wants to see those particular techniques against full resistance, one may want to look at sumo. Likewise, if one wants to practice them against full resistance, the dohyo (sumo ring) may be the right venue and ruleset to do so.

So what you are saying is that to get working aikido take a sumo lesson?

Would only one lesson be sufficient?

I honestly believe that, to get working aikido, one needs to practice like the people who did make it work in the past. However, I've always wondered what was missing from today's training methods compared to the old timers. Apart from the facts that we train less and probably don't understand the kata as much, I have noted that the older generations, from Takeda to Ueshiba to the first generation of disciples, all regularly fought (in challenge matches for example) but also spent hours playing sumo. If one wants a ruleset where he can break free from the kata and work with resistance, given also the fact that sumo was the primary art for what became Daito-ryu and aikido, I think it's worth trying to apply some aikido movements and concepts in the dohyo. But one could also learn to deal with resistance under MMA, Western wrestling, BJJ or judo rulesets, the trick would be to use those venues to train aikido principles, not just become a judoka and try to pull off a cosmetic lock that looks like aikido kata.

@Encho I've looked it up and, to some extent, it resembles this sumo winning technique:

 

[JP3]

Gerry, if you're interested in getting some good Daito-ryu work in with a qualified guy, who's also pretty cool to talk to & hang out with, look around for a Howard Popkin seminar to come near enough to where you you'll be. He goes all over.

I met him in OKC at Windsong Dojo a few years back. Good guy, great instructor, and everything is with an eye to "how is this real. How do we make it real."

Daitoryu Aikijujitsu Ginjukai - Sensei Popkin

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Gerry, if you're interested in getting some good Daito-ryu work in with a qualified guy, who's also pretty cool to talk to & hang out with, look around for a Howard Popkin seminar to come near enough to where you you'll be. He goes all over.

I met him in OKC at Windsong Dojo a few years back. Good guy, great instructor, and everything is with an eye to "how is this real. How do we make it real."

Daitoryu Aikijujitsu Ginjukai - Sensei Popkin

Thanks - I'll keep an eye out for him!

 

[Brian King]

Gerry, if you're interested in getting some good Daito-ryu work in with a qualified guy, who's also pretty cool to talk to & hang out with, look around for a Howard Popkin seminar to come near enough to where you you'll be. He goes all over.

I met him in OKC at Windsong Dojo a few years back. Good guy, great instructor, and everything is with an eye to "how is this real. How do we make it real."

Daitoryu Aikijujitsu Ginjukai - Sensei Popkin

HIGHLY second this recommendation. Howie is good to go and works with people from many different systems. I can easily recommend working with him without any reservations at all. Also, he has posted now and then in the past on this forum FYI.

Regards
Brian King

 

[Gerry Seymour]

HIGHLY second this recommendation. Howie is good to go and works with people from many different systems. I can easily recommend working with him without any reservations at all. Also, he has posted now and then in the past on this forum FYI.

Regards
Brian King

Thanks, Brian. A recommendation by the pair of you is enough for me to be intrigued.

 

[JP3]

HIGHLY second this recommendation. Howie is good to go and works with people from many different systems. I can easily recommend working with him without any reservations at all. Also, he has posted now and then in the past on this forum FYI.

Regards
Brian King

I didn't know that. I've enjoyed the travelling Popkin & Brogna show at Windsong three times, and it's fun each time. You're right about his being able to teach to folks of different MA backgrounds, skillsets, and athletic levels too. Good instructor. Hilarious stories as well.

 

[O'Malley]

I found this video showing a sumo technique:

"The head stuff is unique". Wait, I've seen that before!

That's a fun parallel to make, although the aikido version is different in that it relies a lot on the torque on the shoulder to unbalance uke.

 

[Holmejr]

The above Aikido throw.
All good!
There is only so many ways the body can move. I find similarities in almost every art I look into.
In Eskrido de Alcuizar we do that as a throw or move our left leg onto the left side of his head to stop full rotation and to rip his shoulder. Also simply grab his head and throw it under his own shoulder, keep control of the arm and turn it into an arm bar. All fun stuff!!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

"The head stuff is unique". Wait, I've seen that before!

If the "foot sweep" is added in, the result can be better.