Unconventional weapons
- Thread starter BTittel
- Start date
I've used a shovel. Worked pretty good. I'm alive.
Never liked the balled up newspaper idea for multiple reasons.
1: Will you really have time to roll up a newspaper?
2: If you do, it will be very clear to the person that you plan on using the newspaper to defend yourself. This wouldn't be an issue (it isn't for a shovel, for instance) if it wasn't for
3: How much do you have to train attacking someone with a newspaper where they wont be willing to just absorb the damage? I've never tried it but I imagine if I defended myself with a newspaper, they would just absorb it and continue stabbing me.
As for a ball cap brim-I have never heard of that? How would you successfully use it to defend yourself?
1: Will you really have time to roll up a newspaper?
2: If you do, it will be very clear to the person that you plan on using the newspaper to defend yourself. This wouldn't be an issue (it isn't for a shovel, for instance) if it wasn't for
3: How much do you have to train attacking someone with a newspaper where they wont be willing to just absorb the damage? I've never tried it but I imagine if I defended myself with a newspaper, they would just absorb it and continue stabbing me.
As for a ball cap brim-I have never heard of that? How would you successfully use it to defend yourself?
OP
OP
BTittel
Yellow Belt
I had the same thought with the newspaper, but a ball cap brim does hurt pretty bad, but it was used in "play" torturing my brother until he stole it from me and turned it against me. Hit to the ij/ej area could really hurt so we didn't try it. But GB 31/32 really smarts.
Hm, I can see that. Personally id prefer somedthing either a bit smaller, so I can focus where I'm hitting easier, or something bigger, so it hurts no matter where I hit. But I guess it could be valid.
OP
OP
BTittel
Yellow Belt
If you have a ball cap around, roll the bill up to about 1 1/2 inches it creates a focused point when using the very tip of the thing. Use it on intercostal areas, etc. I can see it being useful in a pinch but wouldn't bet my life on it.
Ok if we're going to be serious about this, first dump the movie crap.
An improvised or expedient weapon is anything not designed as a weapon but used as one.
Weapons are generally categorized as stabbing, striking, or defensive.
Anything you can pick up and move easily/quickly can be a weapon if it can also be used to stab, strike, or defend. The rules are if it works, it works. If it doesn't work, you die. With that in mind, train with improvised weapons as you would train with any other weapon. Use it against a resisting padded partner as you imagine it would work, except for bludgeon or edged metal weapons - practice those against a wooden post.
If it doesn't work, move on.
Personally, I have tried and discarded popular myths such as using car keys in a fist with the keys sticking out between the fingers. Can be made to work, but first one has to be able to close distance and punch correctly, which few do.
I might consider a rolled up magazine or newspaper defensively against a bludgeon or a knife, but things would probably be moving too fast for me to do that.
I mentioned a shovel because that works if you have one. It stabs, it bludgeons, it cuts with a knife edge, and it blocks defensively. Look up eku or oar kata to see what you could do with a shovel or a rake, etc.
Consider also escrima and other stick arts, it's often not too hard to find a stick.
FYI, if you're going to punch with a rolled up magazine, don't be Jason Bourne. Punch with the gripped end, not the other end, like punching with the butt end of a knife, when the blade is held down the inside of your arm. Otherwise it won't work at all. You'll see.
An improvised or expedient weapon is anything not designed as a weapon but used as one.
Weapons are generally categorized as stabbing, striking, or defensive.
Anything you can pick up and move easily/quickly can be a weapon if it can also be used to stab, strike, or defend. The rules are if it works, it works. If it doesn't work, you die. With that in mind, train with improvised weapons as you would train with any other weapon. Use it against a resisting padded partner as you imagine it would work, except for bludgeon or edged metal weapons - practice those against a wooden post.
If it doesn't work, move on.
Personally, I have tried and discarded popular myths such as using car keys in a fist with the keys sticking out between the fingers. Can be made to work, but first one has to be able to close distance and punch correctly, which few do.
I might consider a rolled up magazine or newspaper defensively against a bludgeon or a knife, but things would probably be moving too fast for me to do that.
I mentioned a shovel because that works if you have one. It stabs, it bludgeons, it cuts with a knife edge, and it blocks defensively. Look up eku or oar kata to see what you could do with a shovel or a rake, etc.
Consider also escrima and other stick arts, it's often not too hard to find a stick.
FYI, if you're going to punch with a rolled up magazine, don't be Jason Bourne. Punch with the gripped end, not the other end, like punching with the butt end of a knife, when the blade is held down the inside of your arm. Otherwise it won't work at all. You'll see.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Improvised weapons are just that… improvised. Can they work? Yeah. But the major consideration is that they are non-weaponry items pressed into service by necessity… and that necessity (as well as the skill and knowledge of the user) define whether or not they are "effective". In other words, this question can't be answered… as there's no parameters or way of qualifying a response.
An ex colleague of mine was seriously wounded by a guy swinging at him with a rolled up newspaper just two days prior to his wedding day.
Unfortunately for my friend the guy had wrapped it around a rather large combination spanner.
The poor guy had to wear make up for the wedding photographs. The make up didn't conceal the large lumps all over his head and face. Those photos were a sight to behold.
Unfortunately for my friend the guy had wrapped it around a rather large combination spanner.
The poor guy had to wear make up for the wedding photographs. The make up didn't conceal the large lumps all over his head and face. Those photos were a sight to behold.
My guess is that finding a newspaper would be rare, and if you did find one then there are better objects in the same area that would work better.
moonhill99
Brown Belt
Using a sword even short sword, pipe,crowbar or hammer would be better than newspaper.
The problem is the bad guy will take the hit of the newspaper and run up to you and grab it from you.
As for using a baseball bat. I don't really like that idea at all because lot of people miss the target when swinging a baseball bat. And because the baseball bat is really big it makes it very easy for the bad guy to take it away from you.
Some thing like stick, hanbo or Eskrima would be way better than a baseball bat.
Taking Filipino martial arts like Eskrima would make it very hard for bad guy to take it away from you.
It just that if you use baseball bat most likely the bad guy would take it away from you.
Take some sword training and use sword or take Eskrima.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
What on earth are you talking about?
I mean… I don't even know where to start with this, but… what on earth are you talking about? None of that has anything to do with the thread, the post you quoted, or reality itself… so… huh? Using a short sword?!?
Dude…
I teach Kali, I'd be perfectly happy with a bat as an improvised weapon, happier than I would if I was carrying my training bag around an had a rattan stick. Of course I have all kinds of nastier options if I had my training bag with me that I would use before a bat or a rattan stick.
There are two considerations; First consideration is the have with you weapons that you train with and aren't afraid to use. You should have on your person a defensive weapon such as a firearm, edged weapon, blunt weapon (such as a kubaton) or chemical weapon (such as O.C. spray). Preferably one from each category.
Secondly, there may be times when you can't have those weapons on your person or in close proximity. But there are always alternatives. For example, perhaps you can't carry a kubaton on you (for some reason such as being in a court house or secure portion of an airport or even on a plane) but you can carry a Sharpie magic marker. It can fulfill the same purpose and effect. There are various types of keychain attachments that don't look like edged brass knuckles but can be used as such. One looks like a kitty cat and can be picked up at a flea market. Throwing loose change or keys in the face of the attacker (or dirt, sand, gravel or any loose objects that can be grabbed and thrown) can provide an opportunity for counter-attack or escape. If you're in the parking lot it isn't hard to snap off a car antenna (if you can find a car that has one). Of course if your in a parking lot you may have a rock, small chunk of concrete, broken glass, shopping cart or some other object laying around that can be used as an improvised weapon. If you're in a store then you've likely got an unlimited supply of projectile objects such as cans and other items that can inflict damage. How about your belt? In your own home you've got ash trays, butcher knives, lamps, glass in picture frames etc. Anyone still have a land line phone with a cord? You don't have to be a 20th degree black belt to put the base of a lamp upside someone's head. Or put a piece of furniture between you and them while hurling large, heavy and perhaps pointy objects at them. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to pick up a heavy object, smash a window or mirror and select an appropriate shard of glass. How about a chair?
The point is that a good SD course (or SD oriented MA) should develop in you the ability to quickly size up your area and the potential weapons available. As you go about your day look around at the objects in your immediate area. What could you throw, slash with, hit with, stab with, distract with? With the proper mind set you are most likely in an environment with a veritable arsenal of lethal objects.
Secondly, there may be times when you can't have those weapons on your person or in close proximity. But there are always alternatives. For example, perhaps you can't carry a kubaton on you (for some reason such as being in a court house or secure portion of an airport or even on a plane) but you can carry a Sharpie magic marker. It can fulfill the same purpose and effect. There are various types of keychain attachments that don't look like edged brass knuckles but can be used as such. One looks like a kitty cat and can be picked up at a flea market. Throwing loose change or keys in the face of the attacker (or dirt, sand, gravel or any loose objects that can be grabbed and thrown) can provide an opportunity for counter-attack or escape. If you're in the parking lot it isn't hard to snap off a car antenna (if you can find a car that has one). Of course if your in a parking lot you may have a rock, small chunk of concrete, broken glass, shopping cart or some other object laying around that can be used as an improvised weapon. If you're in a store then you've likely got an unlimited supply of projectile objects such as cans and other items that can inflict damage. How about your belt? In your own home you've got ash trays, butcher knives, lamps, glass in picture frames etc. Anyone still have a land line phone with a cord? You don't have to be a 20th degree black belt to put the base of a lamp upside someone's head. Or put a piece of furniture between you and them while hurling large, heavy and perhaps pointy objects at them. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to pick up a heavy object, smash a window or mirror and select an appropriate shard of glass. How about a chair?
The point is that a good SD course (or SD oriented MA) should develop in you the ability to quickly size up your area and the potential weapons available. As you go about your day look around at the objects in your immediate area. What could you throw, slash with, hit with, stab with, distract with? With the proper mind set you are most likely in an environment with a veritable arsenal of lethal objects.
frank raud
Master of Arts
D
Deleted member 34973
Guest
In my hayday...I carried a fishing line with a sinker weight at the end, and a loop to slip around my finger. It was definitely a deterent when flung into the skull of an attacker.
I still carry one today...but only in unfamiliar events within large crowds.
Cops only seen it as a fishing tackle and never a weapon.
I still carry one today...but only in unfamiliar events within large crowds.
Cops only seen it as a fishing tackle and never a weapon.
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