Unarmed Florida Teen Shot

[billc]

Well, the 5 day suspension for truancy, is that in addition to the now revealed 10 day suspension for bringing pot to school?

Again, no, I don't think that because he brought pot to school that he should have been killed. However, it does mean that his record at school needs more examining.

As far as this goes, the heart of the matter is who touched the other guy first? If Zimmerman drew his pistol and threatened Marting first, that counts as initiating the escalation and he should go to jail. If he touched martin first, pushed, touched, or hit, then again he needs to go to jail. If Martin initiated first contact, pushed, shoved, or hit, then the self-defense argument is more relevant. It doesn't matter if zimmerman followed martin, it matters who touched who first...

Also, as to the relative size of the individuals...

While in life Trayvon Martin was barely 17, when it comes to justifiable homicide his size -- about 6-foot-3 and 150 pounds -- makes him an adult in death.

Zimmerman, 28, is 5-foot-9 and weighs well over 200 pounds.

 

[shesulsa]

Hmmm. I dunno. I still say if someone like this were trying to confront me, I'd fight hard. If Trayvon fought the man ... well, it is a risky move.

I wonder how many people here would, at 17, allowed themselves to be followed, pursued by a stranger in the dark and questioned by this person without serious suspicion or feeling of threat?

Oh my...a new twist to the story.
http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812--abc-news.html

George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News.Zimmerman had claimed he had called police about Martin, whom he found suspicious, then went back to his car when Martin attacked him, punching him.
The new information is the most complete version yet of what Zimmerman claims happened on the night of Feb. 26 when he shot and killed the teenager.

 

[ballen0351]

Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain, was walking back to his SUV when Martin approached him from behind. The two exchanged words, and Martin decked him with a punch to the nose and began beating him. He told police he shot Martin in self-defense. Witnesses said they heard someone cry out in distress, some of them telling NBC News and other news organizations that it was Martin. But police told the Sentinel their evidence indicated it was Zimmerman.
One witness told police he saw Martin pounding Zimmerman on the ground. This witness was certain it was Zimmerman who was crying for help, the Sentinel reported.
When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, and he had a swollen lip and bloody lacerations to the back of his head, the newspaper reported. Police said Zimmerman wasn't badly injured and didn’t seek treatment until the next day.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...e-indicates-trayvon-martin-attacked-zimmerman

So he was walking away approached from behind and attacked. Might be why nobody was arrested yet. 3 sides to every story Zimmermans, Martins/News, and the Truth


Also as for the Pictures the Media Uses I wonder if they are just a little Bias

 

[billc]

From the cell phone call to the girlfriend, it sounds like martin initiated the conversation with zimmerman. It might be at that point that zimmerman may have turned and began going back to his car.

Again, no, I do not think that this means that martin should have been killed.

It all goes back to first physical contact...or if, and I say if, zimmerman presented his weapon before any other physical contact...

The school information, the new pictures, that is what my original question about not hearing anything about the teenager was about. Still, he shouldn't have been killed...

 

[billc]

New wrinkle, Jesse Jackson's people are saying Martin was shot in the back of the head...is this true?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/03/26/Martin-Back-Head

[h=2]According to sources in the Memphis, Tennessee area, local FOX 13 insider Joseph Kyles reported from Sanford, Florida that Martin was shot in the back of the head. As the anchor, Greg Coy, tweeted, “This could change invest[igation].”[/h]Who is Joseph Kyles? Kyles is a local board member of Rainbow Push, Jessie Jackson’s civil rights group. Why is this relevant? Because Jackson has reportedly been announcing at his speeches that “[George] Zimmerman told police he had killed him. Shot him in the back of the head in self-defense” – although for some reason, the paper reporting Jackson’s statements, the Orlando Sentinel, has pulled the remarks (though the line is still available via Google Cache).
So either Kyles has information that nobody else does, or Jackson’s talking points are going around to his affiliated organizations. If the former, this could be a serious change in the nature of the case. If the latter, Jackson and those who are parroting him must stop spreading unsubstantiated information immediately – such behavior clouds the case itself, and drives public anger without evidence.

 

[shesulsa]

Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain,

Do we have confirmation of that? I thought he wasn't listed as any kind of official watchperson?

 

[Master Dan]

what really bothers me about it... Watching the news today, they interviewed the witnesses... Finding an impartial jury is going to be tough. I mean this case will go to trial... Won't it?

what case no arrest lost evidence

 

[Master Dan]

Dan It wasnt the police departments choice not to charge him. The States Atty is the one that said not to charge him. The states atty is the highest lvl law enforcement in the local system just like eric holder is the highest lvl law enforcement offical in the federal system. If they say dont charge him then you dont charge him. There is alot more to the story then you are getting on CNN. But you keep blaming the racist cops if it makes you feel better

ITS NOT A COP ITS A DEPARTMENT, And Attorneys Prosecutors ect make thier charge decisions based on evidence and and complete evidence was not collected including testing of clothing. The attorney could have taken the fire from this issue and shown that all due process was being done, Now its getting bigger and now Bounty money is being raised to get Zimmerman between that and potetial riots how much will that cost? though with lack of proper invesitgation and controling the chain of evidence Zimmerman may have gotten off which would possibly enrage the black public even more??

Police departments have a public information officer for a reason and even if Zimmerman was totally inocent the departments handling of a volitile situation from its release of information including 911 tapes have poured bacon on an already hot fire?

Being a MA person perception is 100% of reality not the facts and the PD created a perception of cover up or looking the other way cows out of the barn hard to get back in????????????

 

[Big Don]

Remember this:

This was attacked by damn near everyone as racist.
Isn't this, then, racist as well?

And here’s the original pic…

 

[Big Don]

Why, by the way, is Zimmerman refferred to as a "WHITE HISPANIC"?
His color is about the same as Sotomayor, Justice Sotomayor was ALWAYS described as LATINA, not "White Latina"
But, no, there is no racism in the coverage of this case...

 

[Big Don]

 

[MJS]

Hmmm. I dunno. I still say if someone like this were trying to confront me, I'd fight hard. If Trayvon fought the man ... well, it is a risky move.

I wonder how many people here would, at 17, allowed themselves to be followed, pursued by a stranger in the dark and questioned by this person without serious suspicion or feeling of threat?

I agree Geo. What I find interesting is how some people are using the size differences, almost as a justification for the shooting. Furthermore, I find it very hard to believe that all of these supposed eye witnesses, saw everything from start to finish. Was there anyone who saw the entire thing? My point is...sure, someone may've looked out their window and saw Treyvon on top of Zimmerman. Just like you said Geo....if I was in this kids shoes, and someone was following me, yeah, I'd be running, screaming, and if need be, fighting as well. But, my point is..unless the witness saw the whole thing, then IMO, they're not much of a witness, because they've only got part of the story.

Additionally, I have to disagree with his use of force. IMHO, drawing a gun on an unarmed person, despite size, is a bit of an overkill.

 

[MJS]

Do we have confirmation of that? I thought he wasn't listed as any kind of official watchperson?

Thats what I heard as well...that he was the unofficial block watch. Translation: He was a ****ing wannabe, yahoo, who never could and never will be a cop, so he had to do the next best thing. Christ, I wonder if he didn't have a light and siren in his vehicle. LOL.

 

[billc]

More speculation on Trayvon Martin which needs to be confirmed but would definitely require a closer look. His twitter account, his high school detentions, and his attitude may be different than first portrayed in the media. I heard Michael Gallagher's show on the way home tonight, and he mentioned some things that need to be looked at.

Again, I do not think he should have been killed. The line that was crossed was crossed by whoever touched the other guy first. I also include in this if Zimmerman pointed his pistol or drew it and used it to intimidate. That would be crossing the line as well. At this point we do not know exactly what happened. Both need to be looked at.

 

[billc]

Here is a story about the shooting at Mississippi state universtiy...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/25/mississippi-state-university-shooting_n_1377810.html

Late Saturday, 21-year-old John Sanderson of Madison, Miss., was shot to death in a Mississippi State University dormitory, though the killing appears to be isolated, according to university officials.

Let me be the first to say, I would like to know more about this guy and what he was like. Why? It may explain who and why he was killed.

 

[WC_lun]

There is only one thing we need to know to sort this out, who initiated contact. If Zimmerman, against advice of the 911 operator initiated it, then as a result of initiating contact killed him, that is murder. If Martin initiated contact and was killed as a result of that, then it was self-defense. It doesn't matter if Martin was suspended for pot or Zimmerman aussalted a cop. It is irrelevant and is being used for fodder by the news corporations and some polititions. In the end, a young man lost his life and that is a tragedy.

 

[shesulsa]

Thats what I heard as well...that he was the unofficial block watch. Translation: He was a ****ing wannabe, yahoo, who never could and never will be a cop, so he had to do the next best thing. Christ, I wonder if he didn't have a light and siren in his vehicle. LOL.

Knighthawk Protection in Brush Prairie, Washington got in trouble for that - had all the same equipment as police officers but were a security firm. Even the cars had all the gear. Had to remove some expensive equipment! So ... don't laugh - it happens!

There is only one thing we need to know to sort this out, who initiated contact. If Zimmerman, against advice of the 911 operator initiated it, then as a result of initiating contact killed him, that is murder. If Martin initiated contact and was killed as a result of that, then it was self-defense. It doesn't matter if Martin was suspended for pot or Zimmerman aussalted a cop. It is irrelevant and is being used for fodder by the news corporations and some polititions. In the end, a young man lost his life and that is a tragedy.

Would you call pursuit an initiation? Because I would. It clearly could be misconstrued as malicious intent. And ... I'm not so sure about initiating contact. That isn't even enough for school fights.

 

[elder999]

Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain, was walking back to his SUV when Martin approached him from behind. The two exchanged words, and Martin decked him with a punch to the nose and began beating him. He told police he shot Martin in self-defense. Witnesses said they heard someone cry out in distress, some of them telling NBC News and other news organizations that it was Martin. But police told the Sentinel their evidence indicated it was Zimmerman.
One witness told police he saw Martin pounding Zimmerman on the ground. This witness was certain it was Zimmerman who was crying for help, the Sentinel reported.
When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, and he had a swollen lip and bloody lacerations to the back of his head, the newspaper reported. Police said Zimmerman wasn't badly injured and didn’t seek treatment until the next day.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...e-indicates-trayvon-martin-attacked-zimmerman

So he was walking away approached from behind and attacked. Might be why nobody was arrested yet. 3 sides to every story Zimmermans, Martins/News, and the Truth


Also as for the Pictures the Media Uses I wonder if they are just a little Bias

You do know that that's not Trayvon Martin, dontcha?

Over the weekend, a picture began circulating that claimed to show Martin in a less-than-flattering light: shirtless, sagging pants, and giving the finger to the camera.
The image quickly circulated across blogs and websites, with many claiming it as evidence that Martin was not as innocent as family and supporters claimed, as well as alleging media bias.
There is one problem to that claim: the picture is not Trayvon Martin.
Or at the very least, he's not the one who made worldwide headlines after his death. The Facebook page the picture came from appears to belong to a different Trayvon Martin, whereas the image is nowhere to be found on the slain teen's profile

 

[MJS]

There is only one thing we need to know to sort this out, who initiated contact. If Zimmerman, against advice of the 911 operator initiated it, then as a result of initiating contact killed him, that is murder. If Martin initiated contact and was killed as a result of that, then it was self-defense. It doesn't matter if Martin was suspended for pot or Zimmerman aussalted a cop. It is irrelevant and is being used for fodder by the news corporations and some polititions. In the end, a young man lost his life and that is a tragedy.

If your opinion, would you say that even if Martin hit Zimmerman first, that drawing a gun, on an unarmed kid, is excessive force? I think we all know if this were a LEO and a citizen, and the LEO shot the unarmed citizen, all hell would break lose. This, IMO, is no different. Granted, Zimmerman is not a cop, as thats been pointed out already, however, I still say that it was too much force. If Martin pulled a weapon, be it a knife, gun, rock or stick from the ground, then, I might see some justification. However, I would be interested in knowing the laws for the area they were in.

 

[MJS]

Knighthawk Protection in Brush Prairie, Washington got in trouble for that - had all the same equipment as police officers but were a security firm. Even the cars had all the gear. Had to remove some expensive equipment! So ... don't laugh - it happens!

Oh I can imagine. I've heard some Vol. Firefighters talking about sirens in their personal vehicles. Which of course is a no-no. Hey, I fully understand they're the ones I'm going to call Godforbid I need fire/medical help. But, IMO, having access to a siren, is giving them the OK to act like an official emergency vehicle...something that they're not.

Would you call pursuit an initiation? Because I would. It clearly could be misconstrued as malicious intent. And ... I'm not so sure about initiating contact. That isn't even enough for school fights.

I would too. I'd say that even following from a distance, while in your vehicle, could be deemed initiation, but IMO, I'd have rather seen that, vs. what he did, obviously.