Twin Upset Punch - Chang Hon

[Earl Weiss]

It has been my practice to teach and perform this technique with the fists slightly wider than the elbows and slightly higher than the elbows.

Volume 3 photos shows fists slightly higher than elbows (Slight incline of forearm) but forearms are parallel - fists as wide as elbows - not wider.

Volume 9 additional techniques for Chun Gun specifies "The back fist comes to the same level as the elbow joint" and photo shows forearms level with the floor. Also parallel.



What is your practice?

 

[chrispillertkd]

Master Weiss, I have always performed them with the forearms parallel to each other (so the fists do not end up being wider than the elbows) and with the back fists slightly higher than the elbows stipulated in volume 3. This allows for the punch to actually have an "upset" motion, i.e. a slight upwards trajectory into the target instead of travelling in a straight line. This has been reinforced by a few ITF higher ups.

FWIW, I think the note in Joon-Gun's "Additional Techniques" section could be read as being in harmony with the description in volume 3 if we take "the elbow joint" to mean not just the outside of the elbow but the crease as well. The pictures in Joon-Gun look as if the arms are more parallel to the floor while those in volume 11 in Kwang-Gae look to my eye to be more in line with what is described in volume 3. Those in volume 13 in Yoo-Sin are difficult to comment on because of the angle of the photos although the "other view" picture for movement 41 looks as if the back fists are slightly above the elbow. The twin upset punch in movement 27 for Sam-Il looks to be clearly parallel to the floor, however.

None of the pictures, as far as I can tell, illustrates the punches being wider apart than the shoulder line, however.

Pax,

Chris

 

[RTKDCMB]

This allows for the punch to actually have an "upset" motion, i.e. a slight upwards trajectory into the target instead of travelling in a straight line.

I believe it's called an 'upset punch' because it is upside down rather than traveling upwards. The upset spear finger (spear hand) thrust from Toi Gye is also upside down but travels in a downwards motion. I sometimes like to say it is called an 'upset punch' because if you get hit with one you get upset.

 

[chrispillertkd]

You bring up an interesting point, and I didn't really think about the upset finger tip thrust when I was formulating my answer. I was trying to get across the idea that an upset punch has a circular trajectory. Which is why, I think, the encyclopedia specifies that the back fist ends up being higher than the elbow at impact. If it's level you really haven't made a circle. I'd also point out that when performing an upset punch from an L-stance, rear foot stance, or X-stance the back fist is presented as being even higher than it is in a walking stance in the book.

Regarding the upset finger tip thrust, that does travel in an upwards direction at least some of the time. Besides the more commonly executed attack towards the lower abdomen/pubic region it can also be employed against the armpit. In this case the palm of the attacking tool does face upwards, but the hand also travels upwards with the palm ending up being higher than the elbow. In this situation I have seen the technique executed in a circular trajectory, like an upset punch, but I would have to ask someone like GM Choi, Jung Hwa if that is the "textbook" way in which it is to be performed since it's not specified in the encyclopedia.

Pax,

Chris