TSA: We're not the bad guys. OK, we look like them.

[Bill Mattocks]

http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2010/01/can-tsa-copy-your-laptop-hard-drive-and.html

Long and short - the TSA says it's not them that searches your laptop and copies files from your hard drive. It's the Customs and Border Patrol. Sure, they both work for the Dept of Homeland Security. Sure, they both wear blue uniforms and hassle innocent people and get off on their power trips. But hey - the TSA's shirts are 'royal blue' and the C&BP's shirts are 'navy blue'.

Well, that clears up everything. Our laptops are being searched and our files copied by the C&BP, not the TSA. Makes a world of difference to us. Thanks, TSA.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

That's why I don't take my laptop when I travel and might run into either goon squad.

 

[Sukerkin]

Just keep telling yourself it's the land of the free and you'll be fine :lol:.

 

[seasoned]

All well and good, but, where is that fine line between being safe and being free? Can both coexists? Some times you have to give up one to get the other.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I wonder, will a usb flash drive set off a metal detector? If not, just put it in your underwear. You guys know usb flash drives are now in 64 GB.

So just copy any files you need onto one of them, stick it DEEP inside your checked luggage (or skivvies), and then use a clean laptop to take on the plane.

Deaf

 

[Scott T]

I wonder, will a usb flash drive set off a metal detector? If not, just put it in your underwear. You guys know usb flash drives are now in 64 GB.

So just copy any files you need onto one of them, stick it DEEP inside your checked luggage (or skivvies), and then use a clean laptop to take on the plane.

Deaf

Just one small change to your plan, email the needed files to yourself. While not 100% secure it lessens the risk of having a flashlight shoved up your **** after they find that flash drive

 

[grydth]

Customs has traditionally had very broad powers of search, much more than local police do. That is a good thing in general, and we seldom hear of all the dangerous things they find and prevent from coming in here. I think you'll find pretty much the same thing in most countries.

Generally speaking, when traveling don't take something you would not want some species of government official seeing. The funniest examples have been those couples who just couldn't leave the sex toys at home.

Where Bill may have a sound point, though, is that all of this copying may well go beyond a security search and indeed may not even be part of the entry search... not sure how much the Patriot Acts have degraded our protections against needless snooping and illicit government records keeping. Like to hear from an expert on this......

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Use PGP, encrypt your files. Oh wait, wanting privacy = suspicious person. You get detained and put on ice until you hand over your encryption keys.

 

[grydth]

Devil's advocate: if Customs and TSA just let an al-Qaeda operative stroll through with a computer containing the master plan for a devastating WMD attack on the USA, would not everyone here be all over them for failing to protect the country?

I'm as concerned as you are with the erosion of our freedoms and privacy, but at times it seems we are putting our police forces in a position where nothing they do is right.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Step 1 - build wall
Step 2 - man wall
Step 3 - shoot on sight anyone not using the door
Step 4 - strip search, include a BCS on anyone using the door.
Step 5 - search all property brought in by those using the door. Include papers, phones, and any item or device capable of carrying data.
Step 6 - require all passwords, keys and decodes as a requirement for entry.
Step 7 - establish a DNA based passport system connected to a central database for all citizens. Check DNA at all doors.

Now, we're safe. Entry takes forever, the Constitution is no where to be seen, and privacy is non-existent. But, we're safe.

If that level of inspection is not acceptable, then a line between a no check open border and ultimate lock down must be drawn, and consistently enforced around the nation, by trained professionals, who act as professionals, who do not stoop to bullying, can restrain their anger, refrain from retribution and avoid temptation.
If we can not find those high quality people, then that line must be moved, until we find an acceptable amount of graft, corruption and ineptitude to employ in keeping us "safe", if only in a land where elves and orcs play.

 

[Carol]

A proven way of clearing a TSA checkpoint without hassle (domestic flights only)

Step 1 - Take one cat
Step 2 - Put the cat in ATA bag. Tranquilizers recommended but optional.
Step 3 - Approach TSA checkpoint
Step 4 - Take off shoes and jacket, load in bin
Step 5 - If other belongings are being brought on, put them in a bin also
Step 6 - Take cat out of ATA bag. Hold cat in arms, while putting ATA bag in bin
Step 7 - Walk through metal detector with cat in arms
Step 8 - Steal a glance at the TSA officers as they stare uneasily at the cat.
Step 9 - Put cat back in ATA bag
Step 10 - Put on shoes
Step 11 - Gather belongings and walk to gate.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

A proven way of clearing a TSA checkpoint without hassle (domestic flights only)

Step 1 - Take one cat
Step 2 - Put the cat in ATA bag. Tranquilizers recommended but optional.
Step 3 - Approach TSA checkpoint
Step 4 - Take off shoes and jacket, load in bin
Step 5 - If other belongings are being brought on, put them in a bin also
Step 6 - Take cat out of ATA bag. Hold cat in arms, while putting ATA bag in bin
Step 7 - Walk through metal detector with cat in arms
Step 8 - Steal a glance at the TSA officers as they stare uneasily at the cat.
Step 9 - Put cat back in ATA bag
Step 10 - Put on shoes
Step 11 - Gather belongings and walk to gate.

So you put the flash drive with the encrypted files describing the plan to destroy the US Capitol using WMD in the cat's bottom. I see. Very clever, Carol. Very clever indeed.

 

[Ken Morgan]

You’re bloody well right I'm Tranquilizing the cat! Vicious little bastards when you try to make them go into a cage!

Carol your smuggling stuff in your cats butt?? That’s really quite sad in so many ways….and we think we know people….

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Devil's advocate: if Customs and TSA just let an al-Qaeda operative stroll through with a computer containing the master plan for a devastating WMD attack on the USA, would not everyone here be all over them for failing to protect the country?

I'm as concerned as you are with the erosion of our freedoms and privacy, but at times it seems we are putting our police forces in a position where nothing they do is right.

Would any law enforcement officer know the difference between a master plan for attack and a new advertising campaign for chocolate milk when searching a laptop in a hurried fashion?

Knowing that the C&BP searches laptops, would any terrorist bring his or her plans into the USA on a laptop, as opposed to say mailing it or even simply transferring the data to something like Google Docs and then retrieving it once they were in the USA?

Would any terrorist make their terrorist attack plans look like a word document labeled perhaps 'terrorist attack plan 1.doc' or would they perhaps disguise it as 'moms chocolate cake recipe.doc'?

I know for a fact that I've got gigabytes of data on my company laptop that no one but a serious geek like me could deciper; and the C&BP people are not them. Logical architecture diagrams, data layouts, EMC volume layouts, chunkfile and ,v version control gzipp'd ascii files, etc. I guarantee that no one but me is going to know what they're looking at.

The Israelis have it right - they look at the people.

So in answer to your question - no, I do not think they ought to be doing it. In addition to being an unlawful search and seizure (as 'unreasonable'), it's a gigantic waste of time for all concerned.

 

[Carol]

You’re bloody well right I'm Tranquilizing the cat! Vicious little bastards when you try to make them go into a cage!

Carol your smuggling stuff in your cats butt?? That’s really quite sad in so many ways….and we think we know people….

But...but....Jenny said she wouldn't tell anyone... :idunno:

 

[grydth]

Would any law enforcement officer know the difference between a master plan for attack and a new advertising campaign for chocolate milk when searching a laptop in a hurried fashion?

Knowing that the C&BP searches laptops, would any terrorist bring his or her plans into the USA on a laptop, as opposed to say mailing it or even simply transferring the data to something like Google Docs and then retrieving it once they were in the USA?

Would any terrorist make their terrorist attack plans look like a word document labeled perhaps 'terrorist attack plan 1.doc' or would they perhaps disguise it as 'moms chocolate cake recipe.doc'?

I know for a fact that I've got gigabytes of data on my company laptop that no one but a serious geek like me could deciper; and the C&BP people are not them. Logical architecture diagrams, data layouts, EMC volume layouts, chunkfile and ,v version control gzipp'd ascii files, etc. I guarantee that no one but me is going to know what they're looking at.

The Israelis have it right - they look at the people.

So in answer to your question - no, I do not think they ought to be doing it. In addition to being an unlawful search and seizure (as 'unreasonable'), it's a gigantic waste of time for all concerned.

You might be surprised at the capabilities of some of the specialists in law enforcement..... just because the TSA guy you're seeing looks like a moron doesn't mean that specialists aren't far away. Even in my day the forensics guys were impressive; our Tech folks at work are terrific and that makes me wonder just how good the govt snoopers (and their equipment) could be. I'm betting they can read more than you'd guess.

As for the criminals, you might be surprised at how stupid they can be, Just read your local paper regularly and you will see numerous examples of criminals dumber than my Black Lab (and way dumber than our Jack Russell).

Is it an unlawful search? While I'm not an expert in that field, customs has traditionally had very broad authority. I don't recall many cases reversing their searches.... but if they're not stopping the folks and only spying on the contents later - you've likely got a sound legal point.

 

[Marginal]

You’re bloody well right I'm Tranquilizing the cat! Vicious little bastards when you try to make them go into a cage!

Carol your smuggling stuff in your cats butt?? That’s really quite sad in so many ways….and we think we know people….

Could be more innocent.

"The galaxy is on Orion's belt."

 

[Bill Mattocks]

You might be surprised at the capabilities of some of the specialists in law enforcement..... just because the TSA guy you're seeing looks like a moron doesn't mean that specialists aren't far away. Even in my day the forensics guys were impressive; our Tech folks at work are terrific and that makes me wonder just how good the govt snoopers (and their equipment) could be. I'm betting they can read more than you'd guess.

I've worked with the best, inside and outside the government. I've been in buildings inside the beltway where you were escorted and overhead lights told everyone you were coming, and if you stepped off the yellow lines, you got shot. Trust me, I know more than they do, I taught a lot of them. If I encrypt it, they're not reading it. And not one of them can read the code I've written, because I wrote it. And I'm not the best there is. Point is, no, they won't know what they're looking at on over half the documents on my laptop. And they've got what, 30 minutes, maybe an hour, to examine my laptop and decide whether or not to let me back into the country? Nope; this is security theater. They do not know what they're looking at. Unless it's labeled 'sekrit plans to destroy Amerika', they won't have a clue.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

But...but....Jenny said she wouldn't tell anyone... :idunno:

Never trust a woman, Carol. We'll borrow your favorite shoes, flirt with your man and eat your secret stash of chocolate.

 

[teekin]

Never trust a woman, Carol. We'll borrow your favorite shoes, flirt with your man and eat your secret stash of chocolate.

Jenny darlin, switch around some of those adjectives and you have a much more accurate picture. -vampfeed-

lori