Troubleshooting possible trouble student???

thanson02

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I was wondering if I could get people's input on something that we had happen a few years ago and I realized we had not really resolved in our club, at least not to my satisfaction.

Recently, I was talking to one of our instructors at a regional gathering about a student who would train at the college club I used to run and the club that they trained at. This student always participated in club events and seemed to always be highly excited to be involved, however it seemed like every other week, she had some form of medical issue come up and it was something that we would have to make exceptions for in her training. We tried to narrow down on what her condition was so we could look into it more to make sure we could help her grow and progress in her training without making the condition worse, but it seemed that she would give different explanations to different instructors on what she was dealing with and eventually, when we realized this, we decided to buckle down on the standards because many of us felt like she was giving us the run-around and trying to play on our sympathies. She did eventually graduate college and leave for grad school, so people are not working with her anymore, but there was a lot of disagreement on whether she was seriously having health issues or whether she was pretending.

We are always willing to work with people to help them excel and if there is a medical condition that is preventing this, we are more then willing to work within the limitations of that condition to help them grow regardless. There was talk about establishing standards on how to address these types of situations so we can weed out the people pretending vs the real cases, but we had problems coming up with something that we all felt satisfied this need. So I thought I would pick the brains of the collective and see what people have done in regards to these types of situations and what solutions they have come up with to nip these things in the butts before they grow into something that is possibly problematic.
 

CB Jones

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There was talk about establishing standards on how to address these types of situations so we can weed out the people pretending vs the real cases,

Why do you need to weed these people out?

Who are they hurting?

It doesnt seem like it's really that big of a problem. It seems like the way yall handled it worked fine.
 
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jobo

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Why do you need to weed these people out?

Who are they hurting?

It doesnt seem like it's really that big of a problem. It seems like the way yall handled it worked fine.
agree with this, people may not wish to disclose theit health issues 8n detail and you need to take them at their word. and it really doesn't matter, if she attends and pays her money and gets benifit then everyone gets what they need out of it. if they dont reach the standard of the grading, then there no different to any other student who fails to reach the required standard, then can choose to leave or try again
 

Buka

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I was wondering if I could get people's input on something that we had happen a few years ago and I realized we had not really resolved in our club, at least not to my satisfaction.

Recently, I was talking to one of our instructors at a regional gathering about a student who would train at the college club I used to run and the club that they trained at. This student always participated in club events and seemed to always be highly excited to be involved, however it seemed like every other week, she had some form of medical issue come up and it was something that we would have to make exceptions for in her training. We tried to narrow down on what her condition was so we could look into it more to make sure we could help her grow and progress in her training without making the condition worse, but it seemed that she would give different explanations to different instructors on what she was dealing with and eventually, when we realized this, we decided to buckle down on the standards because many of us felt like she was giving us the run-around and trying to play on our sympathies. She did eventually graduate college and leave for grad school, so people are not working with her anymore, but there was a lot of disagreement on whether she was seriously having health issues or whether she was pretending.

We are always willing to work with people to help them excel and if there is a medical condition that is preventing this, we are more then willing to work within the limitations of that condition to help them grow regardless. There was talk about establishing standards on how to address these types of situations so we can weed out the people pretending vs the real cases, but we had problems coming up with something that we all felt satisfied this need. So I thought I would pick the brains of the collective and see what people have done in regards to these types of situations and what solutions they have come up with to nip these things in the butts before they grow into something that is possibly problematic.

Sounds like a professional pain in the ash. Yeah, you get them from time to time in dojos.

This part "give different explanations to different instructors on what she was dealing with" would have been enough for me. Fortunately, our door worked both ways.
 

dunc

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This seems strange to me
Surely people can attend as frequently or as infrequently as the like as long as they’re not disrupting other people’s training

Or have I missed something?
 

Gweilo

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Maybe the student is on the autistic spectrum, this covers a range of issues, but fundermentaly a person with autism basically reads or interprets situations on a different level to shall we say non autistic people, although hyper intelligent, there ability to express their feelings or understanding of themselves, depends on their mood, situation, or surroundings, and or the people they are interacting with. We have a couple of autistic students that train with us, their understanding of the art is deep, almost personal, their application is flawless, but as explained to me, they are wired slightly different, they have difficulties with explanations of emotions and feelings, but they are bloody good martial artists.
 

Buka

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All kinds of people have a curiosity about Martial Arts. Regardless of the size of your dojo, a lot of different personalities will come in at one time or another. If luck of the draw happens to have you running, or training in, a busy dojo, a whole lot more folks will probably come in over the years.

Amongst those peoples coming in, there will be A Holes. There will be crazies. There will be chumps.
And there will be wonderful people as well. The Arts will attract them all. How you deal with them is up to you.
 

dvcochran

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As Buka said, you are going to get all flavors. I simply do not voice any exceptions or exemptions and try to put everyone on the same plane. As the instructor, it is your job to figure out how each person can do the best they can. I really, really try to keep personalities out of that equation.
The most memorable student I ever had was a man who was born with one leg just below the knee and the other leg missing above the knee. He has absolutely the best attitude about things and doesn't see himself as different. So I never treat him differently. When we come to something he physically cannot do, we will chat about it and figure out another way. Does what he is doing look very different? Yes. Does it matter to him, me, or anyone in class? Not that I am aware of. He can be a stone cold killer with his hands, so much so that some people are wary of working with him.
I point him out to say NEVER label someone. So they are different, that's OK. Just don't treat them that way and make sure they understand the expectations are real. If they cannot deal with that they will usually find the door on their own.
 
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thanson02

thanson02

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This seems strange to me
Surely people can attend as frequently or as infrequently as the like as long as they’re not disrupting other people’s training

Or have I missed something?

No you haven't. It was strange. One of the complaints from one of the assistant instructors was that she would explain why she was not able to do something instead of talk about the issue and work to come up with solutions.

On the flip side, another example of a student we have who still trains: This woman has had issues with confidence with her weight and at times has left the room while training because the workout triggered her self-esteem and she needed to go and cry for a bit. She steps out of the room, takes a couple minutes to do her thing, and then comes back in and is fine. she never made a show of it and many times, people don't realize she has stepped out. She is always pleasant and is eager to help out, also, when we gave her a workout plan to help her with her weight, she followed it with no complaints. She is not a high roller in regards to application (although, most would not want to grapple her :)), but she has become someone that people respect and admire because of how well she has done.......................

Actually, I think I just answered my own question. I think I just needed a example of what a "win" was so we can make a good track for people to set as a standard.

Thank you everyone. Sometimes you just need to talk it out to get it strait in your head. :happy:
 
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thanson02

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Sounds like a professional pain in the ash. Yeah, you get them from time to time in dojos.

This part "give different explanations to different instructors on what she was dealing with" would have been enough for me. Fortunately, our door worked both ways.

That, for the most part, is what my wife said. They did not get along at all.
 

Buka

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No you haven't. It was strange. One of the complaints from one of the assistant instructors was that she would explain why she was not able to do something instead of talk about the issue and work to come up with solutions.

On the flip side, another example of a student we have who still trains: This woman has had issues with confidence with her weight and at times has left the room while training because the workout triggered her self-esteem and she needed to go and cry for a bit. She steps out of the room, takes a couple minutes to do her thing, and then comes back in and is fine. she never made a show of it and many times, people don't realize she has stepped out. She is always pleasant and is eager to help out, also, when we gave her a workout plan to help her with her weight, she followed it with no complaints. She is not a high roller in regards to application (although, most would not want to grapple her :)), but she has become someone that people respect and admire because of how well she has done.......................

Actually, I think I just answered my own question. I think I just needed a example of what a "win" was so we can make a good track for people to set as a standard.

Thank you everyone. Sometimes you just need to talk it out to get it strait in your head. :happy:

Had a few like your second example over the years, fortunately it all worked out well. People in the dojo took them under wing and that really helped.

Toughest part of either example is when dealing with young instructors. They probably don't have the experience helping/dealing with students like that. And why would they?
 

jobo

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That, for the most part, is what my wife said. They did not get along at all.
I'm struggling to understand what the problem was .? what was she declining to do and how did that adversely effect you or 9ther students ?
 

Headhunter

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I don't see the issue....if she's making stuff up then that's on her. She won't progress but she doesn't sound like a bad person if she's turning up and doing events. You can't kick someone out for lying about an injury if she is then well ok that's her business but as long as she's paying her money and not hurting anyone or disrupting anyone else's learning then just let her do what she does
 

gpseymour

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I was wondering if I could get people's input on something that we had happen a few years ago and I realized we had not really resolved in our club, at least not to my satisfaction.

Recently, I was talking to one of our instructors at a regional gathering about a student who would train at the college club I used to run and the club that they trained at. This student always participated in club events and seemed to always be highly excited to be involved, however it seemed like every other week, she had some form of medical issue come up and it was something that we would have to make exceptions for in her training. We tried to narrow down on what her condition was so we could look into it more to make sure we could help her grow and progress in her training without making the condition worse, but it seemed that she would give different explanations to different instructors on what she was dealing with and eventually, when we realized this, we decided to buckle down on the standards because many of us felt like she was giving us the run-around and trying to play on our sympathies. She did eventually graduate college and leave for grad school, so people are not working with her anymore, but there was a lot of disagreement on whether she was seriously having health issues or whether she was pretending.

We are always willing to work with people to help them excel and if there is a medical condition that is preventing this, we are more then willing to work within the limitations of that condition to help them grow regardless. There was talk about establishing standards on how to address these types of situations so we can weed out the people pretending vs the real cases, but we had problems coming up with something that we all felt satisfied this need. So I thought I would pick the brains of the collective and see what people have done in regards to these types of situations and what solutions they have come up with to nip these things in the butts before they grow into something that is possibly problematic.
One option is to ask for a note from their doctor. You can provide them with a "request" note that details what information you need. This is a reasonable request when you're not getting a clear answer, as you can't properly protect them (and thus yourself from legal issues). It would be reasonable whether they are faking or not.
 

gpseymour

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agree with this, people may not wish to disclose theit health issues 8n detail and you need to take them at their word. and it really doesn't matter, if she attends and pays her money and gets benifit then everyone gets what they need out of it. if they dont reach the standard of the grading, then there no different to any other student who fails to reach the required standard, then can choose to leave or try again
I disagree somewhat, Jobo. An instructor has a duty to help protect students from injury. An unspecified medical condition doesn't make that possible. It clearly has some impact, but the student doesn't seem to have been capable of clarifying exactly what that impact is. In the US, that would also open up some liability, should the student get injured in class.
 

jobo

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I disagree somewhat, Jobo. An instructor has a duty to help protect students from injury. An unspecified medical condition doesn't make that possible. It clearly has some impact, but the student doesn't seem to have been capable of clarifying exactly what that impact is. In the US, that would also open up some liability, should the student get injured in class.
I said in detail, the issue here seems to be that she has disclosed health problems to a number of instructors, I presume to 3xcus3 her self from various exercises she feel are detrimental to her health, a very mature and sensible thing to do and he doesn5 believe her and feels a healthy respect for your own health is lower the standards of his dojo

8f his concern was for the wellbeing of the student I would agree with your assessment, but that seems not to be 5h3 case here ?
 
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thanson02

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Had a few like your second example over the years, fortunately it all worked out well. People in the dojo took them under wing and that really helped.

Toughest part of either example is when dealing with young instructors. They probably don't have the experience helping/dealing with students like that. And why would they?
And that is the main point right here. When you're running the school or club and you're the only instructor, you can pretty much handle things as you see fit based on what you're seeing. However when you got a leadership team that you're trying to not just work with but also educate on how to be a good instructor, setting up standard rules and how to handle particular situations helps with that process. In this particular case the problem wasn't the student, it was the fact that we realize that we hadn't come up with a standard set of operations to deal with this particular situation the student brought forward in a way that kept everybody on the same page.

Also if there's interpersonal issues, you have a organizational structure to default to as a standard of how to handle those interactions. The same thing you would see with a HR department with a corporation.

Maybe looking at HR procedures in corporations would be a good thing to do.............

Side note: There were other things going on with the student and how the student was interacting with some of the assistant instructors that fed into the situation. I just didn't feel like going into a bunch of college-age kid drama.

Sent from my LG-M153 using Tapatalk
 

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