Troopers Use Cars To Ram Suspects

[MJS]

I guess this gives a new meaning to pursuit. There is a video to go with this post, which shows the scene unfolding from the dash-cam in the police car.

Personally, I don't think ramming a suspect with your car is the best option. I can see maybe following the suspect, if he had got out of his car and started to run, before you reached his car with yours. Then getting out and continue on foot.

Thoughts?

COLUMBIA, S.C. - Federal authorities launched an investigation into the South Carolina Highway Patrol after dashboard camera videos showed a trooper using a racial slur and two others ramming their cruisers into fleeing suspects, a prosecutor said Thursday.

Link

 

[tellner]

Let's take a closer look:

"You better run," then-Lance Cpl. Daniel C. Campbell said to a suspect, using a derogatory term for blacks, "because I'm fixin' to kill you."

The scumbag should have been up on charges of attempted murder with a deadly weapon, not given a vaction with pay and "diversity training". At that point, if the suspect had shot Officer Campbell smack through the pimple it would have been justified. The pig was trying to kill him, not arrest, not apprehend, not prevent a crime. The fact that he carried tin and wore an unattractive suit of polyester clothes issued by the city doesn't make him any less of a murderous racist.

Shame on him.

Shame on the department for standing behind him.

This week, the Highway Patrol released two more videos, both from 2007, showing troopers using their cars to ram suspects.
In one of those tapes, Lance Cpl. Steven C. Garren drives after a black man on foot, striking him when he crosses in front of Garren's cruiser. The man is sent flying into high grass on the roadside.
"Yeah, I hit him. I was trying to hit him," Garren, who is white, can be heard telling another trooper. Garren received a three-day suspension, which he has appealed.
Another video shows Lance Cpl. Alexander Richardson chasing a running man at an apartment complex, driving between buildings and on sidewalks, passing onlookers, including a small child. The suspect appeared to be hit at a slower speed and kept on running.
Richardson was reprimanded and completed a stress management course, disciplinary records show.

Hitting a man with a car is the same as shooting him. If you're not justified in doing the second you sure as hell aren't justified in doing the first. Even if it is South Carolina "Bumper Coons" is not a sport.

Again, this pair of racist asshats deserves plenty of jail time in General Population for attempted murder, reckless endangerment of innocents, and the big one "Conspiracy to deprive a person of his civil rights" probably "based on race, color, creed or place of national origin".

If this keeps happening and the department keeps letting it slide we need to get the FBI off its fat butts and do what it's supposed to - investigate corruption and lawlessness by law enforcement agencies - not setting up fake kiddie porn websites so it can add extra raids to its statistics.

 

[tellner]

Personally, I don't think ramming a suspect with your car is the best option. I can see maybe following the suspect, if he had got out of his car and started to run, before you reached his car with yours. Then getting out and continue on foot.

To reiterate: It's only "the best option" if shooting him in the back of the head is also a "best option". If it isn't, you're a murderer acting under the color of law, not a police officer.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Waitaminnit.....so if I'm reading this right this ISN'T car-on-car stuff but running someone down who is on foot,...WITH the cruiser?

Hmmmmmm......*shakes head*........About the only justification I could see for that would be if they were armed, or I had *VERY* good reason to believe they were fleeing to retrieve a weapon or otherwise would obviously continue to pose a deadly force threat to the surrounding community.

 

[terryl965]

Well if they where not criminals maybe they would not be running.

 

[MJS]

To reiterate: It's only "the best option" if shooting him in the back of the head is also a "best option". If it isn't, you're a murderer acting under the color of law, not a police officer.

Well, I hope that you didn't think that I was condoning what happened here. As I said, it was certainly not the best option. Whatever happened to the old fashioned foot pursuit? I realize that it may piss a cop off when the suspect runs, but I don't think abuse is the answer. Now, if they resist once you catch them, then yes, I see nothing wrong with taking them down and cuffing them. Use the force necessary. Beating someone ala Rodney King or hitting them with a car...well, it shouldn't be rocket science to see that should not be done.

Mike

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Well if they where not criminals maybe they would not be running.

That's true, but I'd sure as hell hate to find out I'd run someone over for littering.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

As an aside to Tellner's initial point: At least here in MA, a vehicle IS considered a "dangerous weapon" for purposes of a charge of assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, and it *has* come up as such a charge in court when anyone has willfully hit another person with their vehicle,and rightly so.

 

[terryl965]

That's true, but I'd sure as hell hate to find out I'd run someone over for littering.

I am sure that is not the case here, I remember when criminals was dealt with plain and simple. Do they have rights Hell no, they gave them up when they decided to be a criminal. I know I will catch hell here for that commit, but why do we beleive every single person can be a positive reflection on society. We all know that is not true.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

I am sure that is not the case here, I remember when criminals was dealt with plain and simple. Do they have rights Hell no, they gave them up when they decided to be a criminal. I know I will catch hell here for that commit, but why do we beleive every single person can be a positive reflection on society. We all know that is not true.

The point I was making is that while it IS generally true that "Innocent people don't run", there's still the question of whether it is known at the time of ramming whether the subjects pose a threat of the type to warrant said pizzafication.

 

[MA-Caver]

Let's take a closer look:



The scumbag should have been up on charges of attempted murder with a deadly weapon, not given a vaction with pay and "diversity training". At that point, if the suspect had shot Officer Campbell smack through the pimple it would have been justified. The pig was trying to kill him, not arrest, not apprehend, not prevent a crime. The fact that he carried tin and wore an unattractive suit of polyester clothes issued by the city doesn't make him any less of a murderous racist.

Shame on him.

Shame on the department for standing behind him.



Hitting a man with a car is the same as shooting him. If you're not justified in doing the second you sure as hell aren't justified in doing the first. Even if it is South Carolina "Bumper Coons" is not a sport.

Again, this pair of racist asshats deserves plenty of jail time in General Population for attempted murder, reckless endangerment of innocents, and the big one "Conspiracy to deprive a person of his civil rights" probably "based on race, color, creed or place of national origin".

If this keeps happening and the department keeps letting it slide we need to get the FBI off its fat butts and do what it's supposed to - investigate corruption and lawlessness by law enforcement agencies - not setting up fake kiddie porn websites so it can add extra raids to its statistics.

Tellner, while I agree that the officer(s) was totally out of line and using racial epithets, I might remind you that there are several LEO's on this forum who would probably appreciate it if you wouldn't use the word PIG in reference to another officer no matter how distasteful he may be and the shame that he brings to those working Law Enforcement.
Be assured that we'll be hearing a lot more about this in the days to come. I doubt that the NAACP will sit idly by and let this happen without a word of dissent.
All of your charges are most likely will be filed and probably by the U.S. attorney general since it stands to reason that the area where the officer in question lives is most likely of the same mind bent that he is.

It's stuff like this that fuels the fires of racism and hatred. It also fuels fires against LEO's all across the country. It shows that the so called "superior white race" is constantly showing it's inferiority with incidents like these. There's nothing superior about those guys to be sure. In fact I'm of mind there's no one superior, period, in this world.
So much for those officers living up to the constitutional words "...that all men were created equal..."

 

[MJS]

I am sure that is not the case here, I remember when criminals was dealt with plain and simple. Do they have rights Hell no, they gave them up when they decided to be a criminal. I know I will catch hell here for that commit, but why do we beleive every single person can be a positive reflection on society. We all know that is not true.

Well, I think the only ones who will think that people can be reformed are the bleeding hearts. I've seen quite a few repeat offenders, and their rap sheets speak volumes. 30, 40, 60 arrests!!! You really have to wonder why the hell these people are still walking the streets!

I was reading an article in todays paper about the 3 strikes law in CT and how it got shot down. Personally, it shouldn't just apply to violent offenses, but any offense. If someone can't get the message and turn their life around, they should be in jail for many years.

But, not to get too far off topic here...it doesnt say why they were chasing them or what the nature of the crime was, but I don't know why they couldnt just get out and chase them on foot. All the more reason to be in top shape.

 

[Sukerkin]

For me, living in a different 'climate', it's not the supposed racial slur that astounds me (because that's no different than picking any other convenient handle for verbal abuse) but it's the act that is jaw-dropping.

Get the fellow out of the force and into the 'house' where he belongs. I usually try to see a thing from all angles but running a chap down is not part of police work as far as I can tell.

Now that's not bleeding heart liberalism (American version). I've grown quite right-wing as I've progressed into my middle years (altho' still politically Liberal (English version)) and am quite in favour of very radical criminal punishment regimes for the ludicrously OTT repeat offenders. Thirty or so arrests and no sign of a willingness to join society? Then it's a lifetime in the army or the '38-pence cure' for you (or exile to France). What you cannot have is those supposedly enforcing the law acting so far outside the scope of common-sense, let alone the legal aspects.

 

[terryl965]

The point I was making is that while it IS generally true that "Innocent people don't run", there's still the question of whether it is known at the time of ramming whether the subjects pose a threat of the type to warrant said pizzafication.

I agree Andy, but for agreement sake people that are not guilty need not run.

 

[MJS]

For me, living in a different 'climate', it's not the supposed racial slur that astounds me (because that's no different than picking any other convenient handle for verbal abuse) but it's the act that is jaw-dropping.

Get the fellow out of the force and into the 'house' where he belongs. I usually try to see a thing from all angles but running a chap down is not part of police work as far as I can tell.

Now that's not bleeding heart liberalism (American version). I've grown quite right-wing as I've progressed into my middle years (altho' still politically Liberal (English version)) and am quite in favour of very radical criminal punishment regimes for the ludicrously OTT repeat offenders. Thirty or so arrests and no sign of a willingness to join society? Then it's a lifetime in the army or the '38-pence cure' for you (or exile to France). What you cannot have is those supposedly enforcing the law acting so far outside the scope of common-sense, let alone the legal aspects.

By all means, I don't consider someone who thinks running someone down with a car is a bleeding heart. I'm talking about the people that sit here and say that prison isn't an answer, but instead rehab. Sorry, but its a 2 way street. You have to want rehab. Believe me when I say, there are a ton of programs out there.

I used to work in corrections here in CT. I'd see groups of people leave the block every night for AA, Bible study, drug programs, etc. I'd sit here and think, yeah, thats right...just one more excuse to get some free time. I'm sorry, but if someone really wanted help, they a) wouldn't wait until they land in jail to get it and b) they'd honestly make an effort to change their ways.

As I said...why didn't these cops get out of their car and chase on foot, like every other officer does? I've been a dispatcher for 5yrs. and not once have I heard a cop say that he's chasing someone on foot, in the cruiser. What they do say is...FOOT PURSUIT!!! a bunch of times into their radio.

 

[Sukerkin]

I think we're on the same 'page' really, Mike.

The following is very general and not at all on topic so I accept any disapprobation I receive as a result of my wandering - I think it is loosely related because it deals with what may colour (no pun intended) an LEO's views but really it's just me spouting .

In my younger years I used that think that criminals were just people who'd caught some bad luck and were getting-by in whatever way they could. Can't blame a human for surviving after all. A bit of re-education and a chance to live life 'straight' and most of them would turn-around ... as I implied, I was young and idealistic .

As the decades accrue, I find that my feelings are more that some who are criminals made some bad choices and ended up in the 'mill' from which they could not escape (I'm betting getting a job with a criminal record is torturously hard). Some realise that they've trodden the wrong road and turn themselves around. But many make crime their career and have no intention of reforming.

Hence my very simple binary solution - be drafted into the military and serve the foreign policy interests of the government or take the quick route to the next incarnation of the soul. Either way is a societal net gain.

Like any 'simple' solution this is fraught with pitfalls and generally atrocious moral flaws. Sadly, I can see the backlash building in popular culture whereby it is starting to be seen that to be honest and hardworking is a 'mugs game' (the fictional media glamourisation of crime does not help in this) - letting that build is the start of a major decline in the quality of a culture. Can we afford that?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

No.

 

[The Master]

It is good to see that I am not alone in being offended by this "Tellners" use of inflammatory language in describing the officers in questions. While I find their behaviour as written here reprehensible, I am equally disgusted by the lack of tact shown by this wretched individual.

 

[shesulsa]

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[tellner]

Lack of tact, master?

When a murderous racist tries to kill someone and says that he intends to do so because of the color of a person's skin he is scum. When a cop does it we refer to it as "murder under the color of law". Murder or attempted murder under the color of law is worse than a regular crime. It degrades the Law and reduces respect for it. It causes police officers to betray their Oath by covering up for criminals and turns the whole profession into accomplices. The particulars of these cases indicate a pattern of crime with the very real possibility that it includes "conspiracy to deprive a person of civil rights based on race, color, creed or place of national origin". That is the sort of felony which lets the Feds get out the really big hammer.

These guys deserve exactly the same degree of tact and consideration as the Ku Klux Klan, the National Socialist White People's Party, Asian Pride or La Raza Unida. They abused their trust and make a mockery of the very concept of the Law and its servants.

I note that a few people have said "He gave up all his rights when he did a crime." Apply the same standard to these particular thugs. Anyone who believes the police did him wrong would have a right to kill the officer then and there. Do you really want police held to a higher standard than that? At least I'm willing to give them a trial before sending them to prison. Their defenders here are saying anyone with a badge has the right to be judge, jury and executioner and that suspicion of committing any illegal act should carry an automatic death sentence with no trial or appeal. That is straight out of the Idi Amin school of law enforcement.

The law on apprehending fleeing felons is very, very clear. Tennessee vs. Garner hasn't been overturned. A person doesn't forfeit his right not to be murdered the moment a cop decides the guy doesn't deserve to live. You can only shoot him in the back or run him down in defense or if you personally have ironclad probable cause to believe that he has committed or is about to immediately commit a crime of unusual heinousness with callous disregard for human life. That's the standard. Every police officer is supposed to know it.