training with people from other styles

[cwk]

How many of you guys train on a regular basis with people from other styles?
I don't mean training in their style/system but using wing chun against them.
If you do/did, what do/did you learn (if anything) from these exchanges?

I train with a friend of mine twice a week, he's a chen style taji sifu and has done a bit of south shaolin. He's a good bloke and there's no ego between us so we have good training sessions. He's got a good solid root so i can't be "off" with my techniques even a little if i want to effect his structure, it's also good fun to practice against someone with a different idea of timing and strategy.

 

[Poor Uke]

I think this is a great idea and do it at least once a week with a friend who has a background in Shotokan. We both train at a Rapid Arnis club so we have some common ground.

I really love taining with people who have western boxing training, man that keeps you on your toes. Also Judo players are great fun to train with, its such a different game to WC, really makes you think about things that just wouldnt come up in a WC class (well not in my experience).

 

[Chat Noir]

Karate people I don't like training with because they're way too stiff. Boxers are wonderful and Tai Chi folks are great fun to train with because their root is so strong. I also enjoy working out with the class clowns!

Laura

 

[mook jong man]

I have in the past , and the main thing that came to light was that they have a range advantage .

Because of the nature of their side on stance their lead hand or leg can hit you but you can't always hit them.
This advantage however can be nullified by some rather aggressive and speedy stepping in at every opportunity or the use of the low heel kick to the lead leg , and in the case of a high round kicking attack your Wing Chun side kick can give you some much needed range as well when directed at waist height.

But this range advantage that they have is a bit of a double edged sword because it also makes them rather predictable , I really only have to worry about the two lead attacking limbs because the other limbs are further back and give me slightly more time to react.

This is in comparison to the Wing Chun stance which enables me to to attack with either one of my hands or legs with equal opportunity or utilise up to three limbs at once.

You must also be aggressive and relentless in your assault , always pressing forward and exerting pressure on them through your stance in an effort to keep them unbalanced , trapping and detaining any arm that comes your way whilst overwhelming them with rapid hand striking and low kicks.

 

[cwk]

We have a nice way of dealing with the range problem in the version of wing chun I study. we attack vulnerable points on the limbs on the way in. This isn't the same as chasing hands it's more of a couple of fast whip like strikes as you close on your opponents centre.
The sharp shoots of pain they feel act as a nice distraction, plus it messes up their guard.

 

[matsu]

cwk.....can you expand on these please mate?

matsu

 

[seasoned]

Karate people I don't like training with because they're way too stiff. Boxers are wonderful and Tai Chi folks are great fun to train with because their root is so strong. I also enjoy working out with the class clowns!

Laura

Then, there is still something to learn. Not all karate is the same.

 

[cwk]

cwk.....can you expand on these please mate?

matsu

Well, I don't want to get too much into it but a nice example would be to use short snappy chap chois using all sides of the hand, second knuckle,blade side of the hand and the thumb side, to hit pressure points/small bones on the arms and hands. It's difficult to explain in words, that's why i don't want to get into it too much, but give it a try,experiment and see if you find it helpful.

 

[cwk]

here's my sifu showing sort of what i'm talking about.
The first clip at about 23 sec.

and this one from about 32 sec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Do9x62dxmo&feature=related

This is not exactly what I mean as sifu isn't showing the multiple angle whip like attacks, only a general idea, but it might help you to understand what I'm talking about.

 

[mook jong man]

Well, I don't want to get too much into it but a nice example would be to use short snappy chap chois using all sides of the hand, second knuckle,blade side of the hand and the thumb side, to hit pressure points/small bones on the arms and hands. It's difficult to explain in words, that's why i don't want to get into it too much, but give it a try,experiment and see if you find it helpful.

I've done something similar to that before , instead of using a Pak Sau and punch to break through the lead hand on someones guard you can use what we call a reverse Tan Sau and punch.

Which is basically just using a Tan Sau with a slight elbow sinking action to displace his lead hand as you punch through with the spare hand.

It was explained that if one wanted to be very nasty one could change that Tan Sau hand to a closed fist and attack the back of his hand with the back of your knuckles in an abbreviated type of whipping backfist motion.

 

[cwk]

we use both the dropping tan sau and the back fist technique also. They're actually in one of our forms.

 

[dosk3n]

Id love to be able to train with someone from another style but I dont know anyone else tht studies any other fighting style.

I did once have a friend say he did kick boxing when he was younger and wanted to try sparring with me but that lasted about 30 seconds and he doesnt want to again due to that. Also I wouldnt want to train with him again as I wouldnt learn anything since you could tell he hadnt done it for a lot of years.

Its not like I can just turn up to a different school and challenge them lol.

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

here's my sifu showing sort of what i'm talking about.
The first clip at about 23 sec.

and this one from about 32 sec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Do9x62dxmo&feature=related

This is not exactly what I mean as sifu isn't showing the multiple angle whip like attacks, only a general idea, but it might help you to understand what I'm talking about.

I have an idea what you're talking about but, I can only go by what I'm seeing in the video... Those techniques in the video only work if you've trained them extensively and conditioned the hands as well. I don't train Wing Chun but we strike to the arms and hands like what you're speaking of and it's a lot harder to pull off than it looks.

You need to have pin point accuracy, speed and power to really make those techniques work. If you don't have the accuracy, speed, power and conditioned hands those techniques come off more as a nuisance than anything else. I have met very few people capable of pulling them off...

I used to train with a friend of mine in NYC who I must admit was the best WC stylist I'd ever met. He was very fast and had good power and really knew his stuff. But, the problem he had like most WC stylist I've met was their hands and arms were not conditioned for our style of attacks. We train to attack an attack with our own so we condition our hands and arms extensively! We even train to attack WC's chain punch with our own chain punching. To help condition the arms for these types of attack plus we have the Grinder dummy made of metal and concrete.

 

[mook jong man]

We even train to attack WC's chain punch with our own chain punching. .

Yeah good luck with that , I have enough trouble stopping them and I've taught and trained in Wing Chun for years.

 

[Drac]

At one of the seminars I regularly attend I trained with one of Willem deThouars students..That little guy hit like a mule...

 

[Tez3]

Id love to be able to train with someone from another style but I dont know anyone else tht studies any other fighting style.

I did once have a friend say he did kick boxing when he was younger and wanted to try sparring with me but that lasted about 30 seconds and he doesnt want to again due to that. Also I wouldnt want to train with him again as I wouldnt learn anything since you could tell he hadnt done it for a lot of years.

Its not like I can just turn up to a different school and challenge them lol.

Aha! get yourself down the road to Catterick and come and train with us!! We do MMA but both myself and my instructor are TMA as well. You don't have to challenge us but it would be good for us to have someone of a different style in to see how we all do, a great learning curve. We have a friend Sami Berik who is a CMA based MMA fighter and Mick my instructor (the one who does the doors in N'castle) has a working knowledge of most MA. PM me if you're interested and I'll give you our details, if you can't come down to us Mick can introduce you to people closer to you if you like. I warn you, he lives in Scotswood though rofl!

 

[cwk]

I have an idea what you're talking about but, I can only go by what I'm seeing in the video... Those techniques in the video only work if you've trained them extensively and conditioned the hands as well. I don't train Wing Chun but we strike to the arms and hands like what you're speaking of and it's a lot harder to pull off than it looks.

You need to have pin point accuracy, speed and power to really make those techniques work. If you don't have the accuracy, speed, power and conditioned hands those techniques come off more as a nuisance than anything else. I have met very few people capable of pulling them off...



I never said it was easy.

 

[dosk3n]

Aha! get yourself down the road to Catterick and come and train with us!! We do MMA but both myself and my instructor are TMA as well. You don't have to challenge us but it would be good for us to have someone of a different style in to see how we all do, a great learning curve. We have a friend Sami Berik who is a CMA based MMA fighter and Mick my instructor (the one who does the doors in N'castle) has a working knowledge of most MA. PM me if you're interested and I'll give you our details, if you can't come down to us Mick can introduce you to people closer to you if you like. I warn you, he lives in Scotswood though rofl!

PM'd