Training at Multiple Dojos?

[Old CJ]

Do you think it is ok to start simultaneously training at a different Shotokan dojo? What is the etiquette?

I started up this year (Mondays and Wednesdays) and have been bumped up to Yellow (one promotion).

What are your thoughts on training with a second Shotokan dojo (Tuesdays and Thursdays)? The two dojos are not affiliated or connected in any way.

Also what is the etiquette for flat out permanently switching dojos?

 

[J. Pickard]

I personally don't see anything wrong with it. You just want to get more training to improve as much as possible which is admirable. However, I definitely recommend talking to your current Sensei before doing anything at the very least to let him know that you want more than 2 days a week (he may even be willing to give you extra classes so you don't have to go to another dojo). Some karate systems are very much about loyalty and to train in another dojo without your sensei knowing can be considered a bit of a dick move. A good sensei will likely encourage additional training but may recommend that you wait until you have a more solid foundation so that you don't get confused by any variations between the dojo.

TL;DR, Talk to your sensei first so that you don't step on any toes, then go for it.

 

[Old CJ]

J.Picard, Thank you for the thoughts and comments. I have started the conversation with my current sensei asking about private lessons. I understand it is a business.

I can do two days training at the second dojo for less money than adding one hour a week at the current dojo.

I certainly do not want to step on any toes.

 

[drop bear]

And so your dojo is a 2 day a week affair?

Or are you skipping their classes to do other classes,

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What are your thoughts on training with a second Shotokan dojo (Tuesdays and Thursdays)?

2 different schools may train the same technique differently. One of my students went to another school. When she did "front cut" in

- my school, she was taught to push on her opponent's neck.
- another school, she was taught to push on her opponent's shoulder.

She tried to ask for the difference. It upsets the instructor.

 

[MuayJitsu]

Do whatever you want to do. If anyone has issue with it that’s there problem . It’s your time it’s your money so it’s no one else’s business what you do

 

[jks9199]

I would speak to your primary instructor. There's a reason that there are two separate schools in such proximity; it may be fine, just a matter of space or instructor availibility -- or it may be that the two instructors don't agree on points. It may also be as simple as a difference in focus -- one school may focus more on tournaments or sparring while the other is much more traditional and focused on forms.

In my art, locally, I largely didn't care if students trained in other clubs -- but I had a few clubs that I discouraged them from going to because they were too different in focus or how they performed techniques. It didn't help the student if they were getting contradictory corrections or had to try to keep slightly different versions of forms straight.

 

[Old CJ]

I'm reconsidering this. I can see where it may cause resentment, hurt feelings, and a host of other problems.
This idea came from wanting more workouts. I should focus on the curriculum at hand and train more at home.
Thanks for some direction sirs.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Do you think it is ok to start simultaneously training at a different Shotokan dojo? What is the etiquette?

I started up this year (Mondays and Wednesdays) and have been bumped up to Yellow (one promotion).

What are your thoughts on training with a second Shotokan dojo (Tuesdays and Thursdays)? The two dojos are not affiliated or connected in any way.

Also what is the etiquette for flat out permanently switching dojos?

What is the purpose of this?

 

[opr1945]

Interesting

 

[Cri70]

I'm reconsidering this. I can see where it may cause resentment, hurt feelings, and a host of other problems.
This idea came from wanting more workouts. I should focus on the curriculum at hand and train more at home.
Thanks for some direction sirs.

The passion is admirable and completely understandable, and don't lose it! Karate is exciting, isn't?

But, most definitely: at start you don't need two dojos: you need to practice a lot what you are shown in one.
Which you do it at home, or if you're lucky in any gym-space but on your own.

There's loads "start me up" points that you may have been told at the dojo, but need extensive drilling to practice, and at that stage it makes no sense to do the drilling with others (unless you're so lucky to have willing friends at your level). Posture, relaxation, stances, moving in and out of them, weight control, balance.. strengthening your legs and learning to "twitch" your butt muscles, and tons more stuff.

If you like karate, you're in for a long journey (and in Shotokan, one full of unexpected surprises...) so enjoy the ride!

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm reconsidering this. I can see where it may cause resentment, hurt feelings, and a host of other problems.
This idea came from wanting more workouts. I should focus on the curriculum at hand and train more at home.
Thanks for some direction sirs.

A simple solution - the time that you wish you had other classes, block out that time in your schedule and train in your backyard or a park. Self-training is important too, allows you to work on what you need rather than what the class needs on a given day, and helps with discipline if you can stick with it.

 

[Old CJ]

Bill Mattocks, the purpose of this is "This idea came from wanting more workouts."

Cri70, thank you for the inspiring comments and good advice. My Shotokan ride so far has been engaging, and exciting.

Monkey Turned Wolf, I agree and I am working toward that goal. (I need a much of everything!)

 

[wab25]

Let me approach your question from an instructor point of view. (to be clear, from an instructor, not a businessman)

Each school does things a particular way, for reasons. One of the reasons I do things a certain way, is because it helps prepare the student for what is to come later. A system, is move than just a collection of techniques that work.... it is a collection of techniques that work together and build on each other.

In Danzan Ryu, we teach the throw o'goshi. (major hip throw) There are many, many ways to throw o'goshi. (look through youtube... you will find many, many different ways to do this throw) I teach o'goshi one particular way, to the beginners. The first reason is because I do not want them to rush through it, I want them to experience the off balancing, the loading and then the throw. I want their focus to be on the technique, not the result. The next reason I teach my particular version, is that I know what the other techniques are, that they will be learning at blue belt, green belt and brown belt. Their are certain things that people usually miss when running through the belts. Then they get to green belt and the thing that makes the new technique hard, is a thing that they could have been doing in o'goshi. So, I teach them the version of o'goshi, with extra emphasis on certain parts... so that later in their training, they are prepared to learn the new technique.

The thing is, that we are all different. When I say people who rushed through their belts, and did not pay attention to certain parts.... What I really mean is: I ran through those ranks, and missed these parts. So, what I am trying to do, is to save the student from the same trouble I had. Other instructors, had other issues and so teach the arts to prepare their students accordingly. The result is that two different schools of Danzan Ryu, may teach o'goshi differently. Not only do they teach it differently, they emphasize different things, for different reasons. As a beginner.... it will be very hard to sort of of that out.

Additionally, as an instructor, when I see a student having a problem with one part of a technique, I give them personalized instruction. Again, this personalized instruction, comes from my point of view, about where the student is and where they are going. Another school, is going to see both of those things differently.

If you do want to go the route of two different schools.... at least be aware that even though they may teach the same art.... they are different schools, with different people, who have different emphasis.... who take different routes to the same place.... and may even fix different pieces in different orders.... it does not make one right and one wrong.... it makes one different and the other one also different.

 

[Gyakuto]

Seek permission with a submissive attitude, more permission, humble crawling-on-your-knees permission….possibly in writing for when the teacher has their ear bent by their friends and senior students.

From what I’ve seen of this sort of situation, teachers find this a huge insult to their ego. They may say they’re fine about it but they come to feel it’s slight on their dojo, them, their students, ancestors and pets.

Tread very carefully. Twice weekly training with progressive home practise is a good amount of training. Be careful…

 

[MuayJitsu]

I'm reconsidering this. I can see where it may cause resentment, hurt feelings, and a host of other problems.
This idea came from wanting more workouts. I should focus on the curriculum at hand and train more at home.
Thanks for some direction sirs.

If there’s hurt feelings then they need to grow up it’s as simple as that. Your time your money your choice and if you want more training than they can provide then you absolutely should go elsewhere and if they are mature adults then they will have no issue with this…if they do have issue then that’s on them

 

[MuayJitsu]

Seek permission with a submissive attitude, more permission, humble crawling-on-your-knees permission….possibly in writing for when the teacher has their ear bent by their friends and senior students.

From what I’ve seen of this sort of situation, teachers find this a huge insult to their ego. They may say they’re fine about it but they come to feel it’s slight on their dojo, them, their students, ancestors and pets.

Tread very carefully. Twice weekly training with progressive home practise is a good amount of training. Be careful…

That kind of nonsense is everything that’s wrong with traditional arts no one should have to crawl and beg an instructor to go train somewhere else. They have no say in what you do outside of the classes, they’re paid to teach on those given days nothing more nothing less. To me if someone acts that immature then I wouldn’t want to train with someone like that

 

[Gyakuto]

If there’s hurt feelings then they need to grow up it’s as simple as that. Your time your money your choice and if you want more training than they can provide then you absolutely should go elsewhere and if they are mature adults then they will have no issue with this…if they do have issue then that’s on them

I agree, but it doesn’t seem to work like that. Many teachers consider it your privilege that they’re teaching you.

 

[MuayJitsu]

I agree, but it doesn’t seem to work like that. Many teachers consider it your privilege that they’re teaching you.

Yeah well those people are idiots. These days 99% of people serious about martial arts will cross train and them having these immature feelings will just cause them to lose students

 

[isshinryuronin]

Many teachers consider it your privilege that they’re teaching you.

IMO, in some cases, rightfully so. Yes, once again, I express a perhaps unexpected opposite viewpoint.

Certainly, in times past when the master handpicked his students before TMA became commercialized, this was true. The teacher had no obligation to teach. The main obligation was on the student to learn and thus show respect and honor to his teacher.

I understand that this is generally (in this modern commercial world) an outdated concept - out dated, but not dead. I have been privileged, not by my skin color, but by good fortune, to have learned my karate outside of any monetary or business structure (since I was 17, 56 years ago).

It WAS my privilege to have been taught simply out of my 2 karate teachers' good grace (3, counting my fencing instructor, an Olympic coach) asking only for me to put forth my best effort. In fact, I struggled to find ways to repay their generosity and faith in me.

I know this is not the norm. But I feel TMA is not just another activity but carries on some threads of the past. In any case, even if a student is paying hard-earned money to learn from a great teacher, they should feel a little privileged, or at least appreciation, for being able to learn such an art. This will only serve to give further internal motivation to do their best.