Tragedy

[TKDHermit]

Just thought I'd share this unfortunate incident here since it's related to Taekwondo.

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Singapore/Story/STIStory_401474.html

 

[Twin Fist]

what the hell is a green belt doing fighting against a brown belt in the first place?

oh gee, it was a WTF event.............

 

[terryl965]

My prayers goes out to the family.

 

[TKDHermit]

what the hell is a green belt doing fighting against a brown belt in the first place?

oh gee, it was a WTF event.............

well actually in Singapore the STG isn't recognized nationally, the Singapore Taekwondo Federation [STF] is the official and only national body for the sport recognized by the Singapore National Olympic Council and everything else in relation to Taekwondo in Singapore. And in all tournaments sanctioned by the STF, allow only same-belt sparring. and fighers must at least be of blue belt and above, and so far, no such thing has happened in STF-sanctioned tournaments.

I have no idea why they'd put a brown belt against a green belt anyway, i mean its understandable if its training but a tournament?!

 

[FearlessFreep]

Arguably this could have happened between two brown belts or two green belts, or really anyone.

There are dangerous places to hit someone in the neck (the first thing I thought of when I read this was one such place we'd talked about in class). When the target is the head, whether kicking or punching, Tae Kwon Do, or Boxing or anything else, then accidents can happen , and sometimes do.

It's terrible what happened, but I think it's a reminder that what we do is very dangerous, and though we try to make it as safe and as fun as possible to train and compete, it's *still* dangerous

But I didn't read anything in the article that this was a failure of the tournament rules or the governing organization. The gap in belts between the competitors as detail of the story, but I don't think was the cause.

 

[goingd]

That is horrible...

 

[ATC]

Wow! Green to Brown is such a huge gap that this should never be allowed. Even in the Dojang when training all upper belts are allowed no head contact to Jr. Belts, and also must use light control when sparing any Jr. belt. We also make sure that any training sparring with Sr. belts and Jr. belts are always supervised by an instructor.

To have a tournament with this type of miss-match is just uncalled for.

 

[Omar B]

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78504

 

[TKD_Stops_Tilt]

Arguably this could have happened between two brown belts or two green belts, or really anyone.

There are dangerous places to hit someone in the neck (the first thing I thought of when I read this was one such place we'd talked about in class). When the target is the head, whether kicking or punching, Tae Kwon Do, or Boxing or anything else, then accidents can happen , and sometimes do.

It's terrible what happened, but I think it's a reminder that what we do is very dangerous, and though we try to make it as safe and as fun as possible to train and compete, it's *still* dangerous

But I didn't read anything in the article that this was a failure of the tournament rules or the governing organization. The gap in belts between the competitors as detail of the story, but I don't think was the cause.

You may see more of this in the future. I was at the Coach's Edge seminar in Austin at Nationals. At the end of the seminar, Leon Preston said that any area above the collar-bone is a legal scoring area for head contact which score three points. That was quite a suprise to me since I have always thought that at the very least the back of the head was off-limits for contact. Given that the WTF is trying to promote fights with more action and excitement, there will likely be more contact to the head area that produces serious injuries.

 

[Miles]

This is such a sad situation. I too don't understand why a green belt was sparring a brown belt in a competition. My prayers are with the families-I am sure the brown belt is also feeling terrible about what happened...

 

[mango.man]

While this is certainly a sad situation, it should be a reminder that the act of competing in TKD is dangerous. This could just as easily have happened in a match between 2 white belts or 2 black belts.

I presume that since this kid stepped in the ring against someone 2 belts higher than him, that he was OK with it, his coach was OK with it and his parents were OK with it. Just like the numerous times that my daughter has stepped in the ring against players much older and more experienced than her.

Remember at WTF and USAT events, 13 year old Poom/BB can fight a 32 year old BBs in Sr divisions. The 2nd year my daughter fought Srs at a USAT qualifier she was 14 and first fought a 30 year old and then fought a 22 year old. The 22 year old broke my daughter's arm. Wade may remember that. We were well aware of the risk but were willing to take the risk to qualify for Nationals.

This is a dangerous game people. Don't take anything for granted.

 

[ATC]

Remember at WTF and USAT events, 13 year old Poom/BB can fight a 32 year old BBs in Sr divisions. The 2nd year my daughter fought Srs at a USAT qualifier she was 14 and first fought a 30 year old and then fought a 22 year old. The 22 year old broke my daughter's arm. Wade may remember that. We were well aware of the risk but were willing to take the risk to qualify for Nationals.

This is a dangerous game people. Don't take anything for granted.

No they cannot. 14-17 is Jr's only and Sr's are 18-32. What you state may have been the case 5 or 6 years ago but not anymore. Maybe at a local non USAT event but not at a USAT sanctioned event anymore.

 

[mango.man]

No they cannot. 14-17 is Jr's only and Sr's are 18-32. What you state may have been the case 5 or 6 years ago but not anymore. Maybe at a local non USAT event but not at a USAT sanctioned event anymore.

Sorry, you are incorrect. Sr is officially 18-32 but you can fight Sr beginning at age 14 and remember that you age is based on what age you will become during the calendar year. Therefore if you turn 14 on Dec 31 you will find yourself as a 13 year old potentially fighting someone that is 32. Just 1 week ago my daughter fought Sr in Austin after fighting Jr on Friday. So did many many others. She is 16 and will be 17 in a couple of months. Heck 2009 USA Sr Team Member Talina Le, just turned 16 years old a couple of months ago.

 

[ATC]

Sorry, you are incorrect. Sr is officially 18-32 but you can fight Sr beginning at age 14 and remember that you age is based on what age you will become during the calendar year. Therefore if you turn 14 on Dec 31 you will find yourself as a 13 year old potentially fighting someone that is 32. Just 1 week ago my daughter fought Sr in Austin after fighting Jr on Friday. So did many many others. She is 16 and will be 17 in a couple of months. Heck 2009 USA Sr Team Member Talina Le, just turned 16 years old a couple of months ago.

You may be correct but I don't see how, as you cannot even accidently register as a Sr. if you are a Jr. Also the weight divisons are vastly different. How did your daughter get a Sr. Match? Was this an exhibition? Please explain. The reason for the Jr. saftey rules are for situations like this not to happen.

 

[mango.man]

You may be correct but I don't see how, as you cannot even accidently register as a Sr. if you are a Jr. Also the weight divisons are vastly different. How did your daughter get a Sr. Match? Was this an exhibition? Please explain. The reason for the Jr. saftey rules are for situations like this not to happen.

She fought World Class in both, just like many others. I also registered her through Hang-A-Star just like everyone else. On Friday she fought Jr World Class Light Middle 121.4-130.1 (weighed in at 129.5) and then on Sunday Sr World Class Feather 116.9-125.7 (weighed in at 125.6). Many others did as well. You can log in to Hang-A-Star and see the list of registered athletes. A few names that come to mind just off the top of my head would include, Nicole Palma, Emila Morrow, Jessie Bates, Sana Jafarzadeh, Shania Krause and many others.

Keep in mind that although they are now held at the same venue and within the same week, Nationals and Junior Olympics are still 2 separate events. Therefore you need to register for each as a separate event. Also keep in mind that Jr Safety rules do not apply to any Black Belt once they start fighting Jr or Sr at USAT events. Beginning at age 14 (or during the year that you turn 14) you start playing by Sr rules where KO and the possibilty of serious injury / death is always present. Jr Safety rules are for color belts and black belts under 14 in the USA. In Official WTF santioned events and places outside the USA there is no such thing as Jr Safety Rules. I do not know what rules are in place in Singapore for kids of the age and belts involved in this incident but I doubt that equivilent to the USA's Jr Safety rules were being used. I know that there are plenty of people out there that think that this is a game of "foot tag" and that hits are nothing more than "tappity-tap". That is their own ignorance though and I can't change that.

 

[Stac3y]

Rupturing a vein in the neck like this is a rare occurrence, even with a blow to the right part of the neck. Everything must be just right (well, wrong, actually) for this to occur. Interestingly, chiropractic adjustment that turns the neck too far has been known to cause the same injury.

This is a tragic incident, but not one that I would expect to see repeated frequently. I don't think the mismatch in belts was the cause; it was just a matter of foot and neck meeting in the wrong place at the wrong time. I do think that neck shots should be fouls, though, and I'm glad they are where I fight. Face (catcher's mask area) is in; neck and spinal attacks are fouls.

 

[ATC]

She fought World Class in both, just like many others. I also registered her through Hang-A-Star just like everyone else. On Friday she fought Jr World Class Light Middle 121.4-130.1 (weighed in at 129.5) and then on Sunday Sr World Class Feather 116.9-125.7 (weighed in at 125.6). Many others did as well. You can log in to Hang-A-Star and see the list of registered athletes. A few names that come to mind just off the top of my head would include, Nicole Palma, Emila Morrow, Jessie Bates, Sana Jafarzadeh, Shania Krause and many others.

Keep in mind that although they are now held at the same venue and within the same week, Nationals and Junior Olympics are still 2 separate events. Therefore you need to register for each as a separate event. Also keep in mind that Jr Safety rules do not apply to any Black Belt once they start fighting Jr or Sr at USAT events. Beginning at age 14 (or during the year that you turn 14) you start playing by Sr rules where KO and the possibilty of serious injury / death is always present. Jr Safety rules are for color belts and black belts under 14 in the USA. In Official WTF santioned events and places outside the USA there is no such thing as Jr Safety Rules. I do not know what rules are in place in Singapore for kids of the age and belts involved in this incident but I doubt that equivilent to the USA's Jr Safety rules were being used. I know that there are plenty of people out there that think that this is a game of "foot tag" and that hits are nothing more than "tappity-tap". That is their own ignorance though and I can't change that.

OK thanks for the clarification. I do under the Jr. safety rules for under 14 but did not think you could register as a Sr. when under 17. I know I accidently click on the Sr. Nationals registration page for one of my Jr's when registering and I could not register her. Now this may be because she was 13 and not turning 14 until next year. So it may be that you can not register as a Sr. until you are a true Jr.

I do know that I would never take a Jr. 14-17 to a Sr. event just because of the experience factor. Most Jr. (because of Jr. safety rules) don’t have the experience of protecting the head yet. Even though they are allowed light contact at 8-13, that just isn’t enough contact to make them worry about the head contact. Jr’s at 14-17 though are all about the same and those 3 years of full head contact is needed before becoming a Sr., in my opinion.

Thanks again.