troubleenuf
Blue Belt
Working on new material so thought I would pick your brains. Wondering what you list as the top 10 things you think your students should be able to defend against on the street?
Top Self Defense
- Thread starter troubleenuf
- Start date
1. Defense against multiple attackers
2. Defense against an attacker with a gun
3. Defense against an attacker with a knife
4. Defense against an attacker with a club
5. Defense against a choke
6. How to defend yourself from on the ground
7. How to escape from being grabbed from behind
The last couple are not classifed as being able to defend against, but I know if I were looking for or potentially setting up a self defense class I would consider.
8. How to use common items to defend yourself with
9. Basic pressure point training
10. Situational awareness.
2. Defense against an attacker with a gun
3. Defense against an attacker with a knife
4. Defense against an attacker with a club
5. Defense against a choke
6. How to defend yourself from on the ground
7. How to escape from being grabbed from behind
The last couple are not classifed as being able to defend against, but I know if I were looking for or potentially setting up a self defense class I would consider.
8. How to use common items to defend yourself with
9. Basic pressure point training
10. Situational awareness.
dancingalone
Grandmaster
sfs982000 has a good general list.
These are the scenarios I work on most with our younger students. We believe they are the most likely ones encountered in bullying situations.
grab and punch
grab and pull
pushing/shoving
headlocks
lapel or shoulder or arm grabs
hook/roundhouse punches
football tackles
These are the scenarios I work on most with our younger students. We believe they are the most likely ones encountered in bullying situations.
grab and punch
grab and pull
pushing/shoving
headlocks
lapel or shoulder or arm grabs
hook/roundhouse punches
football tackles
bluewaveschool
2nd Black Belt
The majority of my students (all but 4) are 12 and under, so gun/knife/club isn't the attack of choice in their age group. Well, atleast where I live.
1. Escape from grab from behind.
2. Escape from headlock.
3. Escape from front shirt/jacket grab (one or two handed).
4. Escape from choke.
5. Escape from various wrist grabs (for the girls).
6. Blocking
Not a full 10, but too tired to make my brain work anymore.
1. Escape from grab from behind.
2. Escape from headlock.
3. Escape from front shirt/jacket grab (one or two handed).
4. Escape from choke.
5. Escape from various wrist grabs (for the girls).
6. Blocking
Not a full 10, but too tired to make my brain work anymore.
Manny
Senior Master
Nice post! and good points from every one. I can't ad something more but I think there are a couple of things that are very important. 1.-Situational awareness and 2.-Defense against multiple attackers.
The most important thing to me is point number 1 from here all comes together, if you are walking in the moon you are an easy prey. Talkin about point numer 2, if one is capable of handle multiple atackers the oods are with one.
Manny
The most important thing to me is point number 1 from here all comes together, if you are walking in the moon you are an easy prey. Talkin about point numer 2, if one is capable of handle multiple atackers the oods are with one.
Manny
Self Defense is a strange and funny thing. I was attacked in Cabo San Lucas Mexico(2 YRS AGO) by three attackers. I was with three friends walking down a narrow side walk. I was in the back and not really paying attention. I have spent allot of time in Mexico and in Cabo and felt comfortable. Lack of situational awareness got me in this mess and what got me out of it was being able to stay calm. I got hit with three blows,a kick to the Tail bone, a punch to the side of the head, and a strike to the back of the head. I don't know if I was hit by one guy or all three it happened so fast. I turned around and pushed the one closest to me he went reeling back . I yelled "what are you going to do now" and all three ran away. I would guess that when I did not fall and did not appear to be hurt they changed their mind and ran. They hit me hard and I was very hurt but my ability to take a punch and remain calm kept a very bad situation from getting worse. A punch or a strike is not always what gets you out of situations, a push, a yell, allot of luck and the ability to take a punch got me out of that situation.
ATC
Senior Master
Wow! Lucky you. It could have been a lot worse. Glad you are still with us. You made some good points and offer a great lesson to all.
The one thing I tell all my teenagers in class is that you have to be able to take the first hit, and then maybe some after that. But the first one you most always will have to take.
Many people think that when the time comes to defend themselves that they will see it coming. No, you won't in many cases, as you have pointed out.
Just because you practice for SD does not and will not mean that you will be ready for any and all situations. Being aware is something that is vital and even then you can't always be aware.
Many practice for situations that they know are coming. Try this: Instructors should at random times during any class without warning “JACK UP” a student. Just grab them as someone on the street would. During water break time. Maybe while they are stretching. Before a class when they are just talking to friends and so on. Just unexpectedly grab them, or take them down to the ground. You cannot hit them to knock them out of course but let them know that it was an option that could have been use if this was real. For girls you can grab a ponytail and pull them. There are lots of things you can do when they are off guard.
This will test their reflex and how adrenalin may affect what they do or know. Watch many just freeze up.
In reality it is real hard to practice SD. We all tend to practice like in mutual combat. We know we are being attacked and we know what the attack is most of the time. Even if we don't know what the attack is (if you practice that way) we still know something is coming so we are ready. in real SD situations you won't know it's coming. We all practice the techniques but do we really practice the reality?
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
Hmm, just thought of something:
Being yelled at. I mean, when we practice SD in class one person lets himself be grabbed, the other obligently grabs in prescribed manner, all nice an quiet, but I do recall somebody well versed in the techniques telling about her initial shock of being yelled at. That second could mean the difference.
And like Gorilla suggested yelling back.
Being yelled at. I mean, when we practice SD in class one person lets himself be grabbed, the other obligently grabs in prescribed manner, all nice an quiet, but I do recall somebody well versed in the techniques telling about her initial shock of being yelled at. That second could mean the difference.
And like Gorilla suggested yelling back.
bluewaveschool
2nd Black Belt
i had an instructor that would drop into a fighting stance, ki-yup and tag people in the head with a jab when they froze on the word start.
aedrasteia
Purple Belt
Troubleenuf wrote: "Working on new material so thought I would pick your brains. Wondering what you list as the top 10 things you think your students should be able to defend against on the street?"
Good way to make us all think.
These below Could apply to all - don't know in depth. For women/girls the Blitz extremely rare - usually time/location dependent. Items below far more often (experiences not speculation).
My experience applies only to women and girls.
All below involve Unknown persons unless excluded.
Examples provided if you want them.
1. Verbal hook (friendly)
2. Verbal hook (confused)
3. Verbal hook (ill)
4. Verbal hook (fake acquaintance)
5. Verbal hook (real acquaintance/friend/family/boss/known person)
6. Verbal hook (assistance/asking)
7. Verbal hook (lost)
8. Verbal hook (harrassing: range = unpleasant compliment through deliberate gross-out)
9. Verbal hook (shock - aka harrass + Major Upgrade)
10. Verbal hook (hostile: grades 1, 2, 3 through unlimited)
oh, forgot... 11. Verbal hook (offering unrequested assistance; followed by 8., 9., 10 when assistance declined or avoided).
12. Verbal hook (fake information)
13. Verbal hook (fake 'shrink'/emotional intrusion)
14. Verbal hook (compliment as intrusion)
15. Verbal hook (guilt/hurt feelings and more guilt)
many more, but thats a good start.
Verbal hook/intrusion often supplemented by intentional situational re-positioning, non-touching (turning to face differently so defender cannot see passers-by, etc.)
Intruder's Goal = look, pause, engage, manipulate, escalate.
Defender previous training: be compliant, helpful. Result? Think velcro. Defender Goal = to be tile/glass, not carpeting. or Flamethrower. or Gasoline. Intruder 'hook' fails early, stays failed, Defender alert, engaged
unresponsive to verbal hooks, prepared for physical intrusion: Short term responses and long term action.
Now, for instructors:
construct/apply multiple layers of instruction: description, defender connections (real-life _Only_) no hypothetical cases, build-in scale for severity.
Unpack _all_ elements of successful/effective defender behavior. Instructor needs to provide/show all those elements, shape students' acquisition curve from starting point to new baseline. Be prepared for defender extreme discomfort and internal conflict (with tested critique and re-direction). New behavior may/ususally conflicts strongly with deeply engrained/re-inforced external norms. Key external persons will likely oppose/ridicule new Defender behavior disguised and justified as help. Expect students will face external opposition (often extreme) and 'innoculate ' students effectively.
Visible and repeated instructor empathy and encouragement absolutely required here effectively communicated (mutiple modes) to students.
Your key points?? And the applicable cases (real-life only) and your practice structure for each point? Always can use new ideas and help from others.
thanks A
Good way to make us all think.
These below Could apply to all - don't know in depth. For women/girls the Blitz extremely rare - usually time/location dependent. Items below far more often (experiences not speculation).
My experience applies only to women and girls.
All below involve Unknown persons unless excluded.
Examples provided if you want them.
1. Verbal hook (friendly)
2. Verbal hook (confused)
3. Verbal hook (ill)
4. Verbal hook (fake acquaintance)
5. Verbal hook (real acquaintance/friend/family/boss/known person)
6. Verbal hook (assistance/asking)
7. Verbal hook (lost)
8. Verbal hook (harrassing: range = unpleasant compliment through deliberate gross-out)
9. Verbal hook (shock - aka harrass + Major Upgrade)
10. Verbal hook (hostile: grades 1, 2, 3 through unlimited)
oh, forgot... 11. Verbal hook (offering unrequested assistance; followed by 8., 9., 10 when assistance declined or avoided).
12. Verbal hook (fake information)
13. Verbal hook (fake 'shrink'/emotional intrusion)
14. Verbal hook (compliment as intrusion)
15. Verbal hook (guilt/hurt feelings and more guilt)
many more, but thats a good start.
Verbal hook/intrusion often supplemented by intentional situational re-positioning, non-touching (turning to face differently so defender cannot see passers-by, etc.)
Intruder's Goal = look, pause, engage, manipulate, escalate.
Defender previous training: be compliant, helpful. Result? Think velcro. Defender Goal = to be tile/glass, not carpeting. or Flamethrower. or Gasoline. Intruder 'hook' fails early, stays failed, Defender alert, engaged
unresponsive to verbal hooks, prepared for physical intrusion: Short term responses and long term action.
Now, for instructors:
construct/apply multiple layers of instruction: description, defender connections (real-life _Only_) no hypothetical cases, build-in scale for severity.
Unpack _all_ elements of successful/effective defender behavior. Instructor needs to provide/show all those elements, shape students' acquisition curve from starting point to new baseline. Be prepared for defender extreme discomfort and internal conflict (with tested critique and re-direction). New behavior may/ususally conflicts strongly with deeply engrained/re-inforced external norms. Key external persons will likely oppose/ridicule new Defender behavior disguised and justified as help. Expect students will face external opposition (often extreme) and 'innoculate ' students effectively.
Visible and repeated instructor empathy and encouragement absolutely required here effectively communicated (mutiple modes) to students.
Your key points?? And the applicable cases (real-life only) and your practice structure for each point? Always can use new ideas and help from others.
thanks A
StudentCarl
3rd Black Belt
With no disrespect meant to ATC, I'm concerned that this post could be misinterpreted.
It's important that this shouldn't happen during instruction, and should only happen other times if you've established that as ground rules. It should also only happen with students who have received sufficient training that it's a fair assessment.
I think you're really training reaction as much as awareness, and that means both flinch to cover and defensive moves that follow. Gorilla's right: you can't see it all coming. That's why it's important to train default responses. First cage to protect your head, and get off the "X" (MOVE!). The flinch may be trained to help you cover your head, but after that the actions must be very aggressive and effective. I suggest cup, throat guard and full face shield with helmet for the attacker, and praise aggressive response. Cover punch to the center of chest is not the kind of technique you're looking for.
I don't think this is something an instructor should begin 'off-the-cuff' and don't want someone new to read this and just think "I'm gonna try that."
Carl
That was a clarifying experience for me. The punches to the head did little damage but that kick to the tail bone probably hurt for 2 months. They probably cracked my tail bone. Never saw a doctor not much they can do for a tail bone and I hate doctors.
They attacked me I am sure because they new I was not paying attention and my friends had turned the corner. My Guess is that they were hiding between cars. My buddies turned around and came back when they heard the yell. Just in time to see them scamper away. We spoke to 2 cops about 2 blocks from the scene and they did not care. It is a whole different world. I still love Mexico but I will always keep my guard up no matter what country I am in.
Disco
Green Belt
All the self defense in the world won't help you 99% of the time, if your not aware your in a hostile setting. Gorilla was very lucky that 1) The head punches were either not on target or he really has a hard head and 2) that the kick didn't do more damage and 3) That the muggers were not armed with some sort of weapon. But regardless of no weapon, if they really knew what they were doing, he would have been in serious trouble without any time to react to the attack.
Most people think / feel that just because they practice some form of martial arts, that they will be able to handle anything that comes their way and that's a really FALSE SENSE of security. You can't defend what you can't see and you really have to be 100% honest with yourself on what you can see to defend against.
Most people think / feel that just because they practice some form of martial arts, that they will be able to handle anything that comes their way and that's a really FALSE SENSE of security. You can't defend what you can't see and you really have to be 100% honest with yourself on what you can see to defend against.
I was very lucky! They were probably just three opportunists trying to get my wallet and my watch and when it was not as easy as they thought they scampered off. No skill in my self defense just a hard head and the ability to take a punch. A Cautionary Tale at best!!!
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Hmm , I tell my people to always try and get the first shot in . Pre emption is critical. Set the stage first if you can. Reminds of the movie "family Business with Sean Connery telling his son about a fight and the son saying "You hit the other guy first? " Sean Connery says I was never in a fight I won when I didn't hit the other guy first.
I highly reccomend a couple of easy reads which address the psycholgy of altercations as well as adrenal stress etc. "The Bouncer's guide to barroom brawling" and "Real Fighting" both by Peyton Quinn.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
No.s 1-8. The overhand right. Check videos on the web of attacks. 8 out of 10 start with a big right hand shot. However, the encounter often starts well before the first shot is thrown.
bluewaveschool
2nd Black Belt
Hmm... all 5 white belt one steps and 3 of 5 yellow belt are off of a punch in my school. Though really, while they are effective self defense techniques, I use them to stress control and accuracy.
Can anyone tell me why some instructors teach that a downward block is a block against a roundhouse kick in full extension? My arm vs the shin of someone that knows how to throw a roundhouse? I really don't think I'm on the good end of that exchange.
granfire
Sr. Grandmaster
well, not much to say for the lower ranks and beginners, but add a side step and you have something that can work. Beats collecting it with your ribs...
ATC
Senior Master
Well we are talking about different things. You are talking about a fight, mutual combat. You know that there is about to be trouble.
I am talking about a person just minding their own business walking along and bam out of nowhere they get mugged or jumped from behind. You don't expect it nor do you see it coming.
Now if you can't take the first hit then you are in trouble.
bluewaveschool
2nd Black Belt
I step straight in and deliver the downward block (strike) to the inside of the thigh. I'm too close for a full extension to hit me, and popping those points will make that leg drop straight to the ground. Follow up with hand techniques.
