Another Uniform Discussion

[dancingalone]

This paragraph from ArmorofGod sparked a thought for me:

"You are right to make the students wear the same uniform. I read a good article years back stating that different color uniforms and different patches create cliques and sub-groups among the students. It is kind of like the rich kids wearing nicer clothes at school making the other kids feel inferior or like how the jocks wear one type of clothing and the skaters wear another, thus making the groups even more seperate."

I generally agree with the idea that uniforms allow us all to be on the same footing, that the dojang should be a place where personal wealth or social status should not matter. That said, should we take the thought to a final conclusion that all should wear the same uniform exactly?

As an instructor, I generally wear a 'better' uniform, even though it is white like my students'. So do most of the people who have been around a while, and I have no issues recommending the same to any beginner who wants to spend the coin as I believe the fabric and cut is worth the additional expense.

Yet this runs contrary to the spirit of equality in the dojo/dojang does it not?

 

[granfire]

unless you grab the see-through cheapos, you really can't tell from afar the price of a uniform. I mean, all things considered being equal, cut and color, etc.

There is always the gap between the haves and havenots. But unlike street clothes, a dobok/gi is just that: baggy PJs!

 

[dancingalone]

unless you grab the see-through cheapos, you really can't tell from afar the price of a uniform. I mean, all things considered being equal, cut and color, etc.

There is always the gap between the haves and havenots. But unlike street clothes, a dobok/gi is just that: baggy PJs!

No, there's a difference in both appearance and fit/drape. You have to readjust the better uniforms less as they move less on your body due to their better cut. And the newer 'high tech' performance poly blends keep you much dryer and more comfortable than 100% cotton, being light feeling while maintaining sufficient weight to produce the snapping sounds many prefer. At over $200 a suit, they are a far cry from the cheapo poly blends we're more familar with, but they do perform well if your wallet can bear the cost.

 

[Steve]

In a BJJ school, students wear any brand, color and style they want. It hasn't created any noticeable cliques that I've seen. Leadership and atmosphere in the school has a lot to do with managing cliques and such. People will always like some more than others. It's natural.

The only thing I'd avoid is giving any impression that there's any implied expectation that people spend up.

 

[Blindside]

At my old kenpo school we just required some sort of martial arts pants and a plain or martial arts t-shirt at minimum, and if you wanted to wear a full gi, thats great but not required. We tended toward black uniforms, but really didn't care as long it was in decent condition. Full uniforms were required for testing or tournament use. All of the instructors tended to wear full gis to provide a more professional appearance.

I never saw cliques forming because of a uniform.

In teaching Kali I don't require any uniform and haven't seen any cliques, but the average age of my students is something like early-30s, so that isn't something I would expect.

 

[bluewaveschool]

I told all my students that they can not wear anything but white until they get to black belt, then they can get any color they want. I did it for the exact reason of placing everyone equal, as when I took over some of the kids from better off families were wearing different color uniforms. I care only about effort put forth from my students, not the money they can put into uniforms/gear/whatever. I do not require white belts to wear a uniform, because even the cheaper ones run $20+, and some families can't spare that for their kid to lose interest and quit in 6 weeks. As far as quality, I prefer a basic middle weight from Century if they can afford it, the middle weight feels and wears much better than the basic student light weight, and they have a jacket/pants/white belt set. I point them to Century only because the YMCA orders so no sales tax and no shipping, Y covers it.

Kinda off topic, I HATE pullover tops. I currently wear one because it's the only top I have that fits. I love the traditional ones. I don't push one over the other on the students though.

 

[granfire]

No, there's a difference in both appearance and fit/drape. You have to readjust the better uniforms less as they move less on your body due to their better cut. And the newer 'high tech' performance poly blends keep you much dryer and more comfortable than 100% cotton, being light feeling while maintaining sufficient weight to produce the snapping sounds many prefer. At over $200 a suit, they are a far cry from the cheapo poly blends we're more familar with, but they do perform well if your wallet can bear the cost.

oh yeah, no doubt about that, but from afar a nice clean cheap uniform (starched within an inch of it's life) does work well.

 

[d1jinx]

dont be fooled just yet. even students all wearing a white dobuk looking the same will still be seperated by that one little thing... the logo on it.

whether its a swoosh, tree, or adidas sign, kids will still notice what each has. Its like the school uniform thing, some schools require these specific colors like kakki pants and white shirts... the privilaged kids have the polo brand shirts while the not-so privelage kids have the wal-mart white shirt.

hell, I myself am guilty of judging another instructor by the uniform he/she wears. If its a no-name brand I take them less serious and laugh... not by choice though... call it left-over scars from child hood. To this day I am still forced into name-brand crap.

while I know that its not right to do so... I sub-conciously still do it. I guess my only justification, if there is one, is... if you go see a lawyer and he has on a off the rack suit from wal-mart you think he's not that good, but the one with the custom taylored expensive suit looks like he's the best at what he does...

we are doomed to first impressions no matter how wrong they may be.

 

[granfire]

dont be fooled just yet. even students all wearing a white dobuk looking the same will still be seperated by that one little thing... the logo on it.

whether its a swoosh, tree, or adidas sign, kids will still notice what each has. Its like the school uniform thing, some schools require these specific colors like kakki pants and white shirts... the privilaged kids have the polo brand shirts while the not-so privelage kids have the wal-mart white shirt.

hell, I myself am guilty of judging another instructor by the uniform he/she wears. If its a no-name brand I take them less serious and laugh... not by choice though... call it left-over scars from child hood. To this day I am still forced into name-brand crap.

while I know that its not right to do so... I sub-conciously still do it. I guess my only justification, if there is one, is... if you go see a lawyer and he has on a off the rack suit from wal-mart you think he's not that good, but the one with the custom taylored expensive suit looks like he's the best at what he does...

we are doomed to first impressions no matter how wrong they may be.

LOL, sorry but maybe I am just too much of a dork. I don't see those things. Maybe ignorance is bliss after all. :lol:

Or I just happen to have the luck to be older than that brand nonsense.

I grant you this: the walmart clothes never look like Gap or Old Navy, but in the sea of white a 2x2 inch spare label....maybe the students need to work harder then!

We had T-shirts, because the old school had nearly no AC, and the South is hot in the summer, so all you saw was white pants and white shirts.

but then again, the school brand was a pretty good deal so everybody had them...

I am not in no way dismissing your feelings, nor the fact that modern fabrics are a step up from cotton, but when the color is set in stone there is not a lot that breaks the mold. Besides, the skill shines through, or ought to.

However, as an after thought: having a uniform class might help the instructor to see where things are off better than when everybody wears something different.
It's an idea.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Interesting that you recognizze yoyr foibles. Mine are the antihesis although I grant that well fitting clothes on professionals make a beter impression. I tend not to wear clothes with labels except for Levi's and New Balance. I figure that if someone wants me to advertise their brand they have to pay me, not charge extra. I even remove the dealer sticker from my car. Same reason.

My impression when I see someone advertising a label . I think "SUCKA" not only are you advertising someone elses stuff, you paid extra to do it!

 

[d1jinx]

I even remove the dealer sticker from my car. Same reason.

My impression when I see someone advertising a label . I think "SUCKA" not only are you advertising someone elses stuff, you paid extra to do it!

But you dont remove the "brand" label from your car!!!!

 

[Manny]

This paragraph from ArmorofGod sparked a thought for me:

"You are right to make the students wear the same uniform. I read a good article years back stating that different color uniforms and different patches create cliques and sub-groups among the students. It is kind of like the rich kids wearing nicer clothes at school making the other kids feel inferior or like how the jocks wear one type of clothing and the skaters wear another, thus making the groups even more seperate."

I generally agree with the idea that uniforms allow us all to be on the same footing, that the dojang should be a place where personal wealth or social status should not matter. That said, should we take the thought to a final conclusion that all should wear the same uniform exactly?

As an instructor, I generally wear a 'better' uniform, even though it is white like my students'. So do most of the people who have been around a while, and I have no issues recommending the same to any beginner who wants to spend the coin as I believe the fabric and cut is worth the additional expense.

Yet this runs contrary to the spirit of equality in the dojo/dojang does it not?

I agree with you. In the tkd dojang I've been training all the students wear the same unifor, I mean a white dobok with the dojang/organization patch, you can wear whatever brand you want but only white dobok.

Those days when a new student starts his/her TKD Classes inside the fee is considered a regular white dobok and this is the one the student uses till it falls apart and can be replaced by another one. Reaching black belt status sambonim sell us a better dobok, maybe an adidas or mooto or pine three, etc. However the student can wear any brand but keep it white dobok.

This is a must for be cause it denotes, order and disipline, I don't like to see in a dojang/dojo students wearing any color the want, there is no uniformity.

I believe that a master or sambonim using a diferent color of uniform is not a bad idea, because I like to sambonims to make a little contrast, for example if I had my own dojang, maybe I will wear black pants with a white open gi, or maybe a color dobok or gi but.... my students must have to wear the same tipe and color of dobok. In the other hand
I would not feel unconfortable wearing the same type of dobok that my students wear.

Manny