Top 10 Kung Fu weapons in China
- Thread starter Xue Sheng
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Nebuchadnezzar
Blue Belt
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I have to watch the rest of this at home. :supcool:
newtothe dark
Purple Belt
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Great links now I must shop lol
Fiendlover
Black Belt
BAD ***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that would b so cool to actually see how the flying gullitine worked. like in that time. so awesome.......:boing1::duel::samurai:
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
It was all very interesting but they appear to think that deadly is a synonym for strange. Those weapons that the Chinese hold in great reverence are at the bottom of the pile while the gimmick and, let's face it, improbable weapons are at the top.
The Flying Guillotine? They said themselves there are no extant decriptions or pictures, so what we saw was a demonstration of a modern weapon, not a recreation of an old one. Who knows if it existed or how it worked. It really shouldn't be considered so deadly. The reality is that, if it existed, it was probably much simpler and used from ambush, or it was the name of a technique not a weapon.
One interesting thing I noticed was in the discussion of soft weapons. We saw two different people using a chain whip. The first guy was, like almost all the demonstrators, doing a modern Wushu form, basically lots of twirling and not much else. The second guy's form was quite different. It had similar elements but there were actually attacks and variations in what he was doing
The Flying Guillotine? They said themselves there are no extant decriptions or pictures, so what we saw was a demonstration of a modern weapon, not a recreation of an old one. Who knows if it existed or how it worked. It really shouldn't be considered so deadly. The reality is that, if it existed, it was probably much simpler and used from ambush, or it was the name of a technique not a weapon.
One interesting thing I noticed was in the discussion of soft weapons. We saw two different people using a chain whip. The first guy was, like almost all the demonstrators, doing a modern Wushu form, basically lots of twirling and not much else. The second guy's form was quite different. It had similar elements but there were actually attacks and variations in what he was doing
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
- Thread Starter
- #6
Obviously it is a bit subjective, but I am very interested I ALL Chinese weapons from normal to strange. And if you get right down to it and look at the most people killed by any of these weapons it is more likely number 1 would be a Dao, Cross bow, Guan Dao or a spear since that was more likely to be used by that military. But you also need to take into account some of these were used by people other than the military since during dynastic change (example Qing to Ming) it was generally not healthy for the average Chinese to carry a weapon so they carried concealed. And yet others are from Shaolin and others form specific styles or they were styles all their own and they are covering a large swath of time here too. As to the Guillotine ahh but at least it looks scary. And I get the impression it is not so much how many were killed but the certainty of the weapon killing.
As to the 9 section whip, my first sifu was no doubt contemporary Wushu but he was rather amazing with the 9 section whip but he could not use any made in the west, they were 2 light so even the wushu version in China at the time he trained was heavy and dangerous.
Thanks for the links to the videos. They were interesting to watch. I basically agree with Steel Tiger. I was a bit surprised that the number 1 spot went to a weapon that's basically only rumored to exist, while the straight sword and broadsword (saber) are at 10 and the spear and staff at 7. It does seem like they tended to give more unusual weapons better rankings, which are supposed to go to more lethal weapons. I'm certainly no expert, but I do have some doubts that some of the better ranked but more unusal weapons are more lethal than some of the worse ranked but more typical weapons. *shrug* Just some thoughts. It looks like that user on YouTube has posted some other videos that may be interesting, so perhaps I'll watch them some other time.
newtothe dark
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I did some searching and was unable to find that episode on DVD yet did anyone else have better luck?
masherdong
2nd Black Belt
Cool vids! Thanks for posting!
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
- Thread Starter
- #10
One thing to note here they are talking about a rather large amount of Chinese history, and yes I know I said that before but I forgot to add dates, actually I had to look up how old the Ge was.
The Ge is form the Shang Dynasty which ended about 1751 BC - 1027 BC all the way to the Qing dynasty 1644 AD- 1911 AD with the alleged decapitation cap. And I can tell you they miss a whole lot of CMA weapons that were likely equally as deadly. But I posted it because I just plain think it is a pretty cool show, even if it is not 100% accurate
The Ge is form the Shang Dynasty which ended about 1751 BC - 1027 BC all the way to the Qing dynasty 1644 AD- 1911 AD with the alleged decapitation cap. And I can tell you they miss a whole lot of CMA weapons that were likely equally as deadly. But I posted it because I just plain think it is a pretty cool show, even if it is not 100% accurate
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
it was clear they were actually talking about categories of weapons moreso that individual weapons. They put sword and broadsword together, and they are very very different weapons. They put "long weapons" into a category, and included various polearms. Stuff like that. There are so many different variants on weapons that it really can't be listed out like this, and I think presenting it in this manner was kind of poorly thought out. Instead of ranking them in any manner, they could have simply done a survey, and more thoroughly covered the individual weapons. The actual coverage on the individuals was very superficial in my opinion, demonstrated mostly thru wushu style acrobatics and stuff.
overall, I found it pretty disappointing. I haven't seen a really good documentary on the martial arts since BUDO from the 1970s or so. Those that I have seen made in the 1990s to the present have been very superficial and focused on the glam, to the detriment of real information. I hoped National Geographic would have done a better job, but it's not to be.
overall, I found it pretty disappointing. I haven't seen a really good documentary on the martial arts since BUDO from the 1970s or so. Those that I have seen made in the 1990s to the present have been very superficial and focused on the glam, to the detriment of real information. I hoped National Geographic would have done a better job, but it's not to be.
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
You know, its interesting that you say this, because when I was watching it I was reminded of a number of documentaries produced for the BBC which were about an hour long and continually hinted at some surprise at the end. Invariably what was held back was not all that surprising.
In this case, however, I was surprised by what they considered most deadly. There is no doubt that the damn thing would be deadly if you could get it to work.
I would have liked to see something like an hour spent on each category of weapons, but that's not ever going to happen. They found a lot of nice locations for filming and did have some interesting experts to provide some information. Unfortunately, it was something of a confirmation that the general public is accepting Wushu as the face of CMA. There was only one person in the show who was apparently not Wushu trained (aside from the archeaologists and historians) and even he worked as a fight choreographer.
Interestingly, there were two weapons mentioned that are almost synonymous with bagua - the Deer Hook Knife and the Finger Needle.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
yeah, I thought the Flying Guillotine bit was actually really hokey. Maybe it did exist, but even so, I can't really see calling it a "kung-fu weapon". It may have been an assassination tool, or even an execution tool, but I can't see using in an actual fight. It's just silly. Just because something came out of China, and it could be used to kill someone, doesn't make it a Kung Fu Weapon.
Yup, and another YUP!
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Ya know, I thought this was really soooo silly. They made some comment about finding the guy dead, and his head was missing and NOBODY COULD FIGURE OUT HOW IT WAS DONE!!??
gee, let me think, maybe it was done wit a dao, or mebbe an ax, or mebbe a poleaxe of some kind, ore mebbe a big knife, or mebbe...
I just don't see the mystery.
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
- Thread Starter
- #15
True but I doubt they are going to film an actual fight with any of the weapons used that could potentially end in injury or death so the fact they went Wushu or Choreographed for demo and demo fight purposes does not surprise me at all.
Guys, its television they want ratings and they are going to over dramatize and use the most flash as possible. IMO it was not necessary to show the computer image of a human being slashed, chopped cut or impaled either but they still did and it was MAINLY to gain an audience and entertain.
I am just happy they did a show that showed some of the weapons I have only seen pictures of and/or read about.
And while we are on the topic of running it down it is highly unlikely that some of the weapons demonstrated were to scale when compared to the real live historical counterpart. It was Wushu it was choreographed and it was flash but I still liked it and that is why I posted it.
If per chance I come across anything similar in the future I will be sure to add the warning "Wushu and possible historic inaccuracies ahead"
but it is still entertaining.As to the decap cap likely it is myth and I to thought the "His head was missing" justification was a bit weak. Not that an assassin would use any number of other Chinese weapons to remove a head and not that said assassin would return to the person that hired him with the head to prove it was done or anything like that. And since it was likely the Emperor was the person that ordered the killing I am guessing any investigation was along the lines of "oh look... he's dead... hmm... no head.... I don't see it do you.... nope.... alrighty then.... must be missing... ok let’s go get some dim sum".... investigation over.
And yet I still enjoyed the clips and the background…which I believe was mostly filmed on a Beijing movie set, but I could be wrong.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
OK, sorry man, didn't mean to rain on the parade. I just get frustrated with how martial arts are portrayed in the media, and it often seems to me that the programs that attempt to be more informational also can't help themselves but contribute to the "mystery" and the glam factor in their own ways. It's just something that rubs me a bit wrong.
But yeah, it's cool stuff in its own way. Certainly even the wushu guys are tremendous athletes and are very good at what they do. I actually did like seeing the rope dart and meteor hammer. My sifu does teach some rope dart, but I've not learned any. It does strike me as an interesting weapon and I liked seeing the guy use the meteor hammer to smash up the tea pots.
But yeah, it's cool stuff in its own way. Certainly even the wushu guys are tremendous athletes and are very good at what they do. I actually did like seeing the rope dart and meteor hammer. My sifu does teach some rope dart, but I've not learned any. It does strike me as an interesting weapon and I liked seeing the guy use the meteor hammer to smash up the tea pots.
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
- Thread Starter
- #17
No problem, I don't think anyone is raining on my parade here I was just thinking it was getting a bit to much since it is in fact TV and it was packed with some questionable history but that’s entertainment for you.
Although I will admit expected better from National Geographic but things being what they are you get what you get.
And besides I have small children and I RARELY get to see ANYTHING on TV so leave my guilty pleasures alone :uhyeah:
I also will admit right here that if I could find a CMA weapons expert, and there is a slim chance I may have, I would be spending a WHOLE lot of time and money on learning them, they just plain intrigue me.
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
I know what you mean. I have been fascinated by the rope dart ever since I saw it used in Shaolin Temple (the Jet Li movie). I am particularly interested in how experts are able to wrap the rope around themselves without getting it tangled, that must take some serious practice.
Like you Xue, if I could find a CMA weapons guy I'd learn as much as I could, though my great weakness is the jian and the fan so they would probably eat into most of my time.:uhyeah:
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I'm actually lucky in that my sifu does know a good deal of Chinese weaponry, some of which is modern wushu, others is traditional. I've just always made sure that what I am learning is traditional.
My own experience so far has been limited to staff, spear, sword, two-handed sword, and broadsword. But I know he also teaches double broadsword, double sword, hook swords, deerhorn knives, fan, double daggers, emei daggers, chain whip, rope dart, guan do, etc., having a background in taiji chuan and bagua in addition to external arts. I guess I'm lucky.
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
- Thread Starter
- #20
My first Sifu knew (and knows) a whole lot of weapons but they are all Contemporary Wushu. But I still learned staff (Changquan), short staff (Xingyi and Taiji), triple section staff, Jain (taiji and started Changquan), Dao (taiji and Changquan), and Gaundao (I believe Changquan) from him and they were fun forms but they were no doubt Contemporary Wushu. But the Changquan Jain form was my last and I never finished it, I just can't get my self to do a no handed cartwheel with a Jain in my hand
My taiji sifu knows traditional Taiji Jain, Dao and Staff and I have the staff left to learn but there is currently no room to teach it.
