To Mexican President Calderone: Fix your own problem first

[Grenadier]

Many of y'all remember Mexican President Felipe Calderon, where he asserted that most of the guns used in crimes in Mexico came from lawful dealers in the USA:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/21/calderon-faults-us-guns-for-mexico-violence/

Mr. Calderon told a joint session of Congress that of the 75,000 guns seized by Mexican authorities over the last three years, 80 percent are traced to the U.S.

Of course, his claims were thorougly debunked by the facts.

Before he points more fingers of blame, though, maybe he'd better keep a closer eye on his country?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/25/ap/latinamerica/main6712136.shtml

(AP) MEXICO CITY (AP) - Guards and officials at a prison in northern Mexico allegedly let inmates out, lent them guns and sent them off in official vehicles to carry out drug-related killings, including the massacre of 17 people last week, prosecutors said Sunday.

After carrying out the killings the inmates would return to their cells, the Attorney General's Office said in a revelation that was shocking even for a country wearied by years of drug violence and corruption.

"According to witnesses, the inmates were allowed to leave with authorization of the prison director ... to carry out instructions for revenge attacks using official vehicles and using guards' weapons for executions," office spokesman Ricardo Najera said at a news conference.

 

[Carol]

Juarez has become, arguably, the most violent city in the world. And this is a fairly recent change.

Its a big city, and like all big cities, it has its issues with crime, and its issues with bad neighborhoods, and like most of Mexico it has its issue with corruption...bottom to top.

In the late 1990s, I did contract work for a Mass.-headquartered large manufacturer that had operations in the U.S. as well as Mexico. From time to time, they would make attractive offers for employees with certain skills to move to El Paso and work at the manufacturing facility in Juarez. Generally to get the full bennies of the offer, the worker had to stay in Juarez for a minimum amount of time, usually 12-24 months. There were incentives to stay on. From what I heard, most folks chose to rotate back to headquarters once their 12-24 months in Juarez were up. Many of these guys were from the IT/Telecom group working on the factory infrastructure (they hired me to be their temporary replacement at HQ...LOL). Since I was in the same group, I heard many of their stories.

We didn't hear stories about 4000 murders a year or bodies that had dissolved after being submerged in a vat of strong acid, it was about chupacabras and unusual things customs agents did if they were looking for guns.

Juarez is not exactly pastoral greenery but it has gone down the tubes FAST in the last 12 years. Methinks Mexico has quite a few problems to fix first, and fix pronto.

 

[MJS]

Many of y'all remember Mexican President Felipe Calderon, where he asserted that most of the guns used in crimes in Mexico came from lawful dealers in the USA:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/21/calderon-faults-us-guns-for-mexico-violence/



Of course, his claims were thorougly debunked by the facts.

Before he points more fingers of blame, though, maybe he'd better keep a closer eye on his country?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/25/ap/latinamerica/main6712136.shtml

Classic case of the blame game. Nobody wants to admit to their own shortcomings. Sad...it really is. Its a shame that the prison system is so corrupt. Perhaps his staff should be the ones on the other side of the bars that they currently are.

And yes, I know, I know...the same could be said about some of the cops, COs, etc. here in the US. But my thoughts are the same here....if you're a bad apple, then you need to be weeded out.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I can fix Mexico easily. Sadly, the idea of going back in time, and keeping it after we beat them isn't an option.

 

[Big Don]

I can fix Mexico easily. Sadly, the idea of going back in time, and keeping it after we beat them isn't an option.

Have we not given "loaned" them huge sums of money? Foreclose! Annex Mexico, make them all Americans, add ten stars to the flag, exploit, yes, exploit the vast untapped natural resources there. Move to the next country accordingly, even though the US has had a trade embargo against Cuba since the Kennedy admin, we've given them a lot of money too, when Fidel finally kicks the bucket, foreclose, annex, add another star, turn Havana back into the resort paradise it once was.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Many of y'all remember Mexican President Felipe Calderon, where he asserted that most of the guns used in crimes in Mexico came from lawful dealers in the USA:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/21/calderon-faults-us-guns-for-mexico-violence/

Of course, his claims were thorougly debunked by the facts.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/counting-mexicos-guns/

Many of the guns in Mexico came from the USA. Certainly not 90%, as President Obama and other US officials as well as Mexican officials have claimed, but also not an insignificant number. Of course, that's not really our problem; Mexico is responsible for maintaining the integrity of their own borders just as we are responsible for maintaining ours.

We would never demand that Mexico do more to dissuade its population from coming to the USA to work, so they should not urge us to do more to control the flow of guns heading south.

 

[Empty Hands]

Many of the guns in Mexico came from the USA.

The USA is the largest arms manufacturer and exporter in the world, in both large and small arms. It doesn't surprise me that American made guns end up in any number of armed conflicts all across the world.

At least it's still something we manufacture here, eh?

 

[Carol]

My manufacturing counterparts that had to cross the Mexican border every day spoke often of the border patrol looking for guns. It seemed to be their predominant concern, and that was mid-late 1990s. I'm sure the issue hasn't gone away....and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the smugglers are doing dual-duty. Drugs in, guns out.

I also suspect American guns are getting to Mexico, indirectly. For example, it often legal for civilians to own and carry guns in Colombia. If we legally sell a boatload of small arms to Colombia for Colombian consumers, that is legal.

But there is also no guarantee that those small arms will stay in the hands of Colombian consumers.

 

[crushing]

I think it is much simpler than smuggling directly or indirectly. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the guns are purchased legally by Mexico for defense and police, then corrupt officials, like the prison officials that let prisoners out to have killings carried out, then "lose" those guns to criminal enterprises.

So, it may be a fact that 90% of the guns found in Mexico come from legal exports from the US, they just leave out the part where the arms are being distributed by Mexican government officials.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The USA is the largest arms manufacturer and exporter in the world, in both large and small arms. It doesn't surprise me that American made guns end up in any number of armed conflicts all across the world.

At least it's still something we manufacture here, eh?

I was attempting a bit of irony. We often hear loud angry demands that Mexico 'do something' about stopping the flow of migrant workers to the USA, like it's their problem. Then Mexico demands that we 'do something' to stop the flow of arms to Mexico like it's our problem. But we're outraged when they make such demands; we see our demands as justified.

It's not as much fun when you have to explain it, but some people will always refuse to see such obvious parallels.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think it is much simpler than smuggling directly or indirectly. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the guns are purchased legally by Mexico for defense and police, then corrupt officials, like the prison officials that let prisoners out to have killings carried out, then "lose" those guns to criminal enterprises.

So, it may be a fact that 90% of the guns found in Mexico come from legal exports from the US, they just leave out the part where the arms are being distributed by Mexican government officials.

They (Mexico's military and police) don't buy many weapons from the USA. They mostly carry FN and H&K weapons. They do buy some Remington shotguns and Colt M4 carbines.

It's more like the drug mule thing in reverse; Mexican gangsters pay people in the USA to ferry guns across to Mexico.

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_15557792?nclick_check=1

 

[Shuto]

Mexico has huge problems with corruption and I wouldn't be surprised if that corruption was funded in large part by drug money, a lot of which originates from US consumption.

If the $ amounts I've read about are true, it will be very difficult for Mexico to clean it's own house.

Here's one story about the problem.

link

The U.S. government estimates that the cultivation and trafficking of illegal drugs directly employs 450,000 people in Mexico. Unknown numbers of people, possibly in the millions, are indirectly linked to the drug industry, which has revenues estimated to be as high as $25 billion a year, exceeded only by Mexico’s annual income from manufacturing and oil exports. Dr. Edgardo Buscaglia, a law professor at the Autonomous Technological Institute in Mexico City and a senior legal and economic adviser to the UN and the World Bank, concluded in a recent report that 17 of Mexico’s 31 states have become virtual narco-republics, where organized crime has infiltrated government, the courts, and the police so extensively that there is almost no way they can be cleaned up. The drug gangs have acquired a “military capacity” that enables them to confront the army on an almost equal footing.

 

[crushing]

So, who do you get to do a straw purchase of hand grenades and rocket launchers for you?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-arms-race15-2009mar15,0,229992.story

The Feb. 21 attack on police headquarters in coastal Zihuatanejo, which injured four people, fit a disturbing trend of Mexico's drug wars. Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.

The article goes on to support Carol's assertion:

Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

These types of weapons and likely path of entry don't seem to support the Administration/Media and anti-gun advocates claims that drug cartel weapons are being obtained through the so-called gun show loophole.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

These types of weapons and likely path of entry don't seem to support the Administration/Media and anti-gun advocates claims that drug cartel weapons are being obtained through the so-called gun show loophole.

I agree; I never thought that the "90%" claim was true or even close to true. It's a vile canard.

Many weapons go to Mexico via the USA, but as you say, the ones that come from the USA are mostly of the "legal for citizens of the USA to own" variety. Rocket launchers and Bazookas, not so much.

The drug cartels are not really that picky; they'll take all the weapons they can get their hands on, from shotguns to HMGs and mortars. They don't just have one source of supply.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Have we not given "loaned" them huge sums of money? Foreclose! Annex Mexico, make them all Americans, add ten stars to the flag, exploit, yes, exploit the vast untapped natural resources there. Move to the next country accordingly, even though the US has had a trade embargo against Cuba since the Kennedy admin, we've given them a lot of money too, when Fidel finally kicks the bucket, foreclose, annex, add another star, turn Havana back into the resort paradise it once was.

But then China might foreclose the US...
You owe them about 800 Billion $ after all

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Have we not given "loaned" them huge sums of money? Foreclose! Annex Mexico, make them all Americans, add ten stars to the flag, exploit, yes, exploit the vast untapped natural resources there. Move to the next country accordingly, even though the US has had a trade embargo against Cuba since the Kennedy admin, we've given them a lot of money too, when Fidel finally kicks the bucket, foreclose, annex, add another star, turn Havana back into the resort paradise it once was.

Mexico has about 174 billion dollars in foreign debt. Most of that is to institutions, not to the US government directly. The US Treasury made 20 billion dollars available to Mexico to stabilize their external debt crisis in 1995, which Mexico has been paying back on schedule.

As of May 2010, Mexico held about 34.1 billion dollars in US Treasury notes and securities.

Which basically means we owe Mexico more money than they owe us.

Are you sure you want to foreclose?

 

[crushing]

The weapons smuggled in to Mexico aren't illegal, they are undocumented.

 

[Cryozombie]

And said weapons are just trying to be useful and productive. They are just the jobs the Mexican cartel won't do by hand.

 

[crushing]

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/no...y-be-source-narco-syndicates-rising-firepower

More Than $1 billion In Private-Sector Weapons Exports Approved For Mexico Since 2004

Mainstream media and Beltway pundits and politicians in recent months have unleashed a wave of panic in the nation linking the escalading violence in Mexico, and its projected spread into the U.S., to illegal weapons smuggling.

The smokescreen being spread by these official mouthpieces of manufactured consensus is that a host of criminal operators are engaging in straw (or fraudulent) gun purchases, making clandestine purchases at U.S. gun shows or otherwise assembling small caches of weapons here in the states in order to smuggle them south of the border to the “drug cartels.”

The "90%" thrown about by Politicos/Media (aka The Ministry of Truth) is also discussed in the comments section.

 

[Cryozombie]

All Joking aside... what does Mexico want? Our borders free and open so their people can come and go as they please, or our borders defended and secure so guns don't come and go as they please?

Seems to me, that if you open it for one, it opens it for the other making the egress of weapons easier, and if you close it for one, it closes it for the other, making the egress of weapons harder.

Oh wait, they want us to Ban Guns here AND open the border. Silly me.