TMA and fighting.

[Martial D]

I just watched this video from a guy with a refreshing perspective on the current state of TMA, and some interesting theories as to why.

As some of you know, I have been working at making my Wing Chun 'work' for fighting(with some success) by training in MMA because I feel that somewhere along the line something was lost. What he is talking about here plays into that, so I found it particularly interesting.

 

[Steve]

While I'm not sure I buy the guys' definition of traditional, he says some things that make sense. If you don't fight, you won't become skilled at fighting. Just like if you don't cook, you won't become a good cook. It's common sense outside of martial arts. This place, though. A lot of energy spent appropriating expertise.

It makes me smile to think of a person miming the process of grilling a steak or flipping a burger.

 

[Buka]

I look forward to watching this, a lot actually. Just way behind in my viewing stuff.

And, man, that is a nice looking dojo.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm having trouble focusing on his message. Dude has a seriously awesome radio voice - like a 1960's radio play announcer voice.

 

[drop bear]

While I'm not sure I buy the guys' definition of traditional, he says some things that make sense. If you don't fight, you won't become skilled at fighting. Just like if you don't cook, you won't become a good cook. It's common sense outside of martial arts. This place, though. A lot of energy spent appropriating expertise.

It makes me smile to think of a person miming the process of grilling a steak or flipping a burger.

Here is a story for you. Credit to Rob Gruiffrida who is one of the smartest martial artists on the planet.

There are four martial artists in a room and one of them is holding a pen and they are discussing what would happen if he let go.

And all sorts of scenario,s come up for all sorts of different reasons. But at the end of it nobody cab agree.

So the guy puts the pen back in his pocket and says "I guess we will never know" And walks off.

This is the issue of martial arts mentality that causes most of the problems.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you don't fight, you won't become skilled at fighting. Just like if you don't cook, you won't become a good cook. It's common sense outside of martial arts. This place, though. A lot of energy spent appropriating expertise.

Pretty much the same with all things in life. Can't learn how to play the piano by training to play the flute. Hitting the keys on the piano is like the techniques used in a martial arts. You have to use it.

I couldn't watch it all. It was really long and the pauses that he uses when talking made it difficult for me. But the parts about training how to fight sounds about right. If you want to use your martial arts knowledge in that manner then you have to eat some punches, take some kicks, all while learning how the application of a technique is executed. From experience, there were more failures than successes during the learning phase, but it's the failures that are important. I don't think a martial artists can learn without failing. When martial artist say that student's must learn how to let go of the EGO. I think the true meaning behind that is related to the amount of fails that one will have in process of how to actually learn how to apply the techniques.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Pretty much the same with all things in life. Can't learn how to play the piano by training to play the flute. Hitting the keys on the piano is like the techniques used in a martial arts. You have to use it.

I couldn't watch it all. It was really long and the pauses that he uses when talking made it difficult for me. But the parts about training how to fight sounds about right. If you want to use your martial arts knowledge in that manner then you have to eat some punches, take some kicks, all while learning how the application of a technique is executed. From experience, there were more failures than successes during the learning phase, but it's the failures that are important. I don't think a martial artists can learn without failing. When martial artist say that student's must learn how to let go of the EGO. I think the true meaning behind that is related to the amount of fails that one will have in process of how to actually learn how to apply the techniques.

In general, we (humans and probably all animals) learn more from failure (unexpected outcomes) than from success.

 

[skribs]

Here is a story for you. Credit to Rob Gruiffrida who is one of the smartest martial artists on the planet.

There are four martial artists in a room and one of them is holding a pen and they are discussing what would happen if he let go.

And all sorts of scenario,s come up for all sorts of different reasons. But at the end of it nobody cab agree.

So the guy puts the pen back in his pocket and says "I guess we will never know" And walks off.

This is the issue of martial arts mentality that causes most of the problems.

I don't get it.

 

[Martial D]

I don't get it.

The moral: they will theorize until the moon turns to dust but never take it any further.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The moral: they will theorize until the moon turns to dust but never take it any further.

With @Tony Dismukes being the direct opposite example, with the lab work he has posted here. We should all do experiments like that when we have a question, rather than just theorizing an answer.

 

[Martial D]

With @Tony Dismukes being the direct opposite example, with the lab work he has posted here. We should all do experiments like that when we have a question, rather than just theorizing an answer.

I agree. Not just for our own development, but the development of martial arts in general. Ever forward!

 

[drop bear]

I don't get it.

Well the guy is the smartest martial artist on the planet. His ideas can take a bit to work out.

 

[skribs]

Well the guy is the smartest martial artist on the planet. His ideas can take a bit to work out.

I'm saying I don't see the connection to martial arts. I know there's a metaphor in there somewhere, but maybe I just don't understand the story enough to understand. They talk about dropping a pen and then put it away. What is the analogy I'm missing?

 

[drop bear]

I'm saying I don't see the connection to martial arts. I know there's a metaphor in there somewhere, but maybe I just don't understand the story enough to understand. They talk about dropping a pen and then put it away. What is the analogy I'm missing?

 

[Martial D]

I'm saying I don't see the connection to martial arts. I know there's a metaphor in there somewhere, but maybe I just don't understand the story enough to understand. They talk about dropping a pen and then put it away. What is the analogy I'm missing?

Dropping the pen is testing their skills realistically. Many TMA people only talk about what 'would' happen in a situation not only without knowing for sure, but also with no intention of ever finding out.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

While I actually agree with their assessment approach, they did a bad job of replicating the techniques. For the wrist grip escape, they actually used a different grip, blocking out the technique entirely. This is as bad in its own way as the "here's how we dominate a boxer" videos.

 

[skribs]

While I actually agree with their assessment approach, they did a bad job of replicating the techniques. For the wrist grip escape, they actually used a different grip, blocking out the technique entirely. This is as bad in its own way as the "here's how we dominate a boxer" videos.

I actually made a similar comment on that wrist escape when I saw the video on Youtube a couple days ago!

 

[drop bear]

Dropping the pen is testing their skills realistically. Many TMA people only talk about what 'would' happen in a situation not only without knowing for sure, but also with no intention of ever finding out.

Or just as bad talking about what did happen.

So I was in a fight once and this worked. Or the Cowby, Astronaut, Marines train this.

So now every can drill this with confidence that in a fight this escape will work.

And of course if it doesn't work in training that was probably due to some sort of theoretical issue that will not occur in a real fight. So we will still consider this technique as working.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I actually made a similar comment on that wrist escape when I saw the video on Youtube a couple days ago!

They make that mistake on a couple of other techniques. Mind you, I'm fairly certain most of them wouldn't work, anyway (the wrist escape would work in the right situation, but she missed a couple of key points, making it clear she's never tried it with any resistance).

 

[drop bear]

While I actually agree with their assessment approach, they did a bad job of replicating the techniques. For the wrist grip escape, they actually used a different grip, blocking out the technique entirely. This is as bad in its own way as the "here's how we dominate a boxer" videos.

Correct. It was more for the funnies. But it is something that can creep up on you. When you think you are training realistically. And like that video you really are not.