TKD unity, divided and just plain do not know

[terryl965]

Over the last few weeks I have seen threads about young BB's, old BB's and people who should never have ever gotten a BB. I have read though each of them again this past weekend and taken notes and here is what I have so far.

• The KKW or any org for that matter should never let anyone young have a BB even if it is a poom.
• Miminum age for a BB is 16.
• Test should be harder
• Core curriculum is a joke
• Master programs and such are just a money making system
• We need more Korean influence in TKD but we do not need the Korean telling us what to do.
• The KKW charges way to much for a certificate even though it is not them charging these high prices.
• It is ok to give a BB to somebody older that cannot do the material and or protect themselfs but again a child needs to have everything down because they are a child HUH.
• Childern no matter how talented could never possibily understand how important TKD is but yet the can understand how to build a bomb of mass destruction.
• Childern can be a pro and signed to play basebal or other sports at an early age but in TKD they need to be 16 or higher.

I understand some of these points of view but other just make my head boil over with anger, lets take a gymnist they train 6-8 hrs. a day to be at the top of there game travel the world competing from the age of 5-6 on parrael bar, beams and vaulting and some how that is ok. Yet a child should not be the best in his age group in sport TKD because he is too young?

Swimmers train 6-8 hrs. a day to be the very best at there age group but yet the young age seem not to brother people.

I guess in closing I just wanted to say this if the sport is not your cup or childern doing a MA makes you mad get over it. People will always find something to ***** about and believe me I do as well but in some senise is that not the grown up way? Is it not more fun to dis-agree about everything than to agree? Is it also possible for young people to mature and be better than we could ever be?

I really had no point at all with this thread except to type and point out a few miss guided point of interest to all of us, now back to your regular schedule program for self awareness and self control over the outcome of everyday life.

 

[StudentCarl]

Just evolution, Terry. Put a TKD school on a small island and it's not so hard for the organization to stay unified with no outside influences and distance not an issue. Spread it all over the world and the structure, lineages, etc. all blur despite best efforts. Kind of like the DNA that shows you and I are genetically related: time and distance change a lot of things. This forum is interesting partly because it shows how truly diverse our TKD world is. I wonder to what extent the founders thought of that as they sent instructors out into the world to teach TKD. What happens when they "go native?" It's probably best to look at Taekwondo as a species with populations evolving independently. Some thrive and some don't. Your job is just to take care of your group. Doing more than watching the others is wasted emotion...they're doing what they choose.

 

[bluekey88]

Part of the issue is that TKD is a martial art AND TKD is a sport. From a sport perspective...a child being the best in hsi or her age group deosn't strike me as an odd thing. However, I think people look at tkd the sport through the lens of TKD the martial art and then things like 6 year old black belts and the like take on a different meaning.

I know this has been debated ad nauseum before. I've always like Daniel's idea of doing to tkd what fencing did...so you have your martial art rank, but also carry a second seperate rank based on competition performance.

As long as TKD is trying to be an art and a sport (with two different barely related governing bodies trying to set standards) there's going to be extra issues.

Peace,
Erik

 

[puunui]

I know this has been debated ad nauseum before. I've always like Daniel's idea of doing to tkd what fencing did...so you have your martial art rank, but also carry a second seperate rank based on competition performance.

Why do you need a "martial art rank" outside of the competition venue? Chinese martial arts do not have ranking at all, seniority being determined solely by one's time in the art itself.

 

[ETinCYQX]

I think there's more unity in TaeKwonDo than we realize, at least on the personal level. I for one have never gone to any TKD gym (or martial arts gym for that matter) and not been welcomed like a brother. Even ITF schools and non-associated schools. Hell, even Karate schools. When it boils down, we're all connected.

/end obligatory post-bb grading pseudo-sentimental post.

 

[puunui]

I think there's more unity in TaeKwonDo than we realize, at least on the personal level. I for one have never gone to any TKD gym (or martial arts gym for that matter) and not been welcomed like a brother. Even ITF schools and non-associated schools. Hell, even Karate schools. When it boils down, we're all connected.

And it was with your exact sentiment that we invited every single Korean Martial Art instructor in the state to our state association meetings. We didn't care if they were ITF, ATA, Tang Soo Do, or even Hapkido, if they did Korean Martial Arts, we invited them, no matter who the instructor was, what the rank or affiliation of the head instructor or their lineage. Some instructors had hard feelings towards other particular instructors going back to some personal matter, but when it came to the state association, we felt it was a better policy to include everyone. Taekwondo is an art of inclusion; this is what the pioneers intended.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Over the last few weeks I have seen threads about young BB's, old BB's and people who should never have ever gotten a BB. I have read though each of them again this past weekend and taken notes and here is what I have so far.

• The KKW or any org for that matter should never let anyone young have a BB even if it is a poom.
• Miminum age for a BB is 16.

Have seen lots of examples why this should be true. But have seen a few exceptions as well. Benny the Jet may be a noteable one.

So, what do you do with the kid who starts at 6, is a gym rat training 6 classes a week and by age 12 has physical abilities and a comprehension level that seems to rival adults?

 

[bluekey88]

Why do you need a "martial art rank" outside of the competition venue? Chinese martial arts do not have ranking at all, seniority being determined solely by one's time in the art itself.

Well, becasue to compete at a high level in this (and other) countries in Olympic TKD generally requires that 1st dan ranking. I think this is part of what drives the youth BB movement noted in TKD. So, there is a certain amount of pressure or perhaps reward given to schools/teams who promote students quickly (especially if they are athletically gifted).

On the other hand, those detractors who say that a child doesn't possess the maturity/physical skills to be a martial arts black belt also have a valid point. However, they are speaking from a martial arts perspective (in which sport is just a small part).

Thus, it would be valid to give some sort of ranking based on sports accomplishment (maybe not a black belt) but soemthing that will give one some idea of how accomplished a given competitotr is based in their age-weight division. However, it would allow those school who also want to remain true to the art as a whole to hold their black belts to higher standards than the relatively shallow criteria of sports athleticism.

Fencing does this for example.

As for your chinese arts example....which art are you talking about...there are hundreds of them. Many of which are not sport oriented at all. If you are talking about modern Wushu...that's int he same boat as competitive TKD....a sport derived from a martial art. It is mty understanding (from discussion with memeber here and on other boards) that one studies Wushu for sprot and then studeis other arts from SD and fighting. (San Shou for example).

Unfortunately, there isn;t a distinction between TKD the sport and TKD for fighting in the eyes of most people.

Peace,
Erik

 

[ETinCYQX]

[/LIST] Have seen lots of examples why this should be true. But have seen a few exceptions as well. Benny the Jet may be a noteable one.

So, what do you do with the kid who starts at 6, is a gym rat training 6 classes a week and by age 12 has physical abilities and a comprehension level that seems to rival adults?

IMO, 12 is reasonable for a 1st Poom. Six is less so.