TKD as a secondary art at a school

skribs

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My current curriculum designs are based around my plan to open my own TKD school. My plan is to start off at a community center (such as the YMCA), and then when I have enough students, to lease my own space to hold classes. One option that has recently been presented is for a BJJ school that currently does not have a striking class to bring me on to run a TKD class. This was an off-the-cuff remark about something that would probably be a year or two down the road for me, but it did get me thinking. How would I adjust my approach if I am an elective instructor of a school instead of the primary?

There are two things on the back of my mind before I get into this.
  1. In my current TKD school, we also have HKD. Our HKD training eschews that which overlaps with TKD. We don't do punches or kicks in HKD, because we do those in TKD.
  2. One of my former HKD classmates also trained in BJJ. He won gold in a BJJ tournament, crediting HKD as the base of his defenses. It was impossible for his opponents to get a grip, and he was able to defend everything they tried. Then he used his BJJ to win (because there isn't much offense in what we do in HKD).
With that in mind, I can think of 4 approaches to my curriculum.
  • The current design is mostly TKD, a bit of HKD, some weapon training, and a few other influences sprinkled on top. Why change what I've already figured out? Because there might be some overlap with the other art at the school? If there is, so be it.
  • A focus on the competitive aspects of TKD, so the school has another competition with which to bring home the golds. Completely avoids overlap with BJJ, but that may be a bad thing for people looking to integrate the two.
  • Serve as a stand-up game for the sport of MMA. Lean more into the traditional Taekwondo kicks, and sprinkle more in from boxing and Muay Thai influences. Still include the Hapkido, based on thought #2 above.
  • Serve as a stand-up component in a complete self-defense solution. Include more of the Hapkido than the previous option, and include weapon training (which won't help much in an MMA fight).
Of course, this is something I would probably discuss with the owners of the BJJ school if I decide to go this route, and see what they want or expect from the class. A lot of what I'm doing right now is planning ahead for multiple scenarios. Even then, they might just say, "It's your class, do what you want with it."

If you do teach TKD as a secondary or elective course at a BJJ or MMA school, how does your approach differ from what you would do if you were on your own? If not, how would you change your approach if you were to teach at a BJJ or MMA school?
 

Buka

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Consider teaching Skribs-Do instead.

Please hear me out before shaking your head, no.

I taught TKD back in the day, in TKD schools as a guest instructor. (I had/have a Fourth Dan in Old School TKD.) But if I were in your situation I'd just teach plain, old, real deal striking as a supplement to that Jits class. I've been reading your writing for years, brother, I know how experienced you are in the Arts.

I'd focus on street fight striking. On full contact type striking. I my opinion they blend much better with BJJ than any one Art's striking. BJJ, again, in my opinion, is more practical than a lot of Arts. I think they would like it better, appreciate it more and make it fit better with what they do.
 
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skribs

skribs

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Consider teaching Skribs-Do instead.

Please hear me out before shaking your head, no.

I taught TKD back in the day, in TKD schools as a guest instructor. (I had/have a Fourth Dan in Old School TKD.) But if I were in your situation I'd just teach plain, old, real deal striking as a supplement to that Jits class. I've been reading your writing for years, brother, I know how experienced you are in the Arts.

I'd focus on street fight striking. On full contact type striking. I my opinion they blend much better with BJJ than any one Art's striking. BJJ, again, in my opinion, is more practical than a lot of Arts. I think they would like it better, appreciate it more and make it fit better with what they do.

I'm sure we can come up with a better name for it.
 

Buka

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I'm sure we can come up with a better name for it.
No doubt.

Maybe just call it a Martial Striking Class? Or Striking Class?
 
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skribs

skribs

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No doubt.

Maybe just call it a Martial Striking Class? Or Striking Class?
The thing about Taekwondo is it's known as the kicking art. So my tagline for the class can be "Make your enemies suffer the agony of da feet."

But I'll think about alternate names.
 

Earl Weiss

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IMO a BJJ school will tend to attract students to a striking class that are interested in MMA. Lack of Punches to the head and kicks to the legs in a striking system won't be very attractive to them. .
 
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IMO a BJJ school will tend to attract students to a striking class that are interested in MMA. Lack of Punches to the head and kicks to the legs in a striking system won't be very attractive to them. .
I know there are some BJJ guys out there who prefer BJJ over MMA because of a lack of concussions. So at least there's that.
 

MetalBoar

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I know there are some BJJ guys out there who prefer BJJ over MMA because of a lack of concussions. So at least there's that.
I wonder how accurate that perception is and if we have any data. I asked a friend of mine (black belt in BJJ, and has done a lot of Muay Thai, boxing and MMA) what he thought about concussions and he said that in his experience BJJ was worse than Muay Thai for head injuries, though maybe better than boxing. Though I guess you get all of the above and more in MMA.
 
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skribs

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I wonder how accurate that perception is and if we have any data. I asked a friend of mine (black belt in BJJ, and has done a lot of Muay Thai, boxing and MMA) what he thought about concussions and he said that in his experience BJJ was worse than Muay Thai for head injuries, though maybe better than boxing. Though I guess you get all of the above and more in MMA.
Does that include bumps and bruises?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I wonder how accurate that perception is and if we have any data. I asked a friend of mine (black belt in BJJ, and has done a lot of Muay Thai, boxing and MMA) what he thought about concussions and he said that in his experience BJJ was worse than Muay Thai for head injuries, though maybe better than boxing. Though I guess you get all of the above and more in MMA.
My personal experience is that I've gotten the most concussions from throwing-grappling, then next striking, and then ground-grappling. Last is weapons but I'd guess that's cause I'm very protective of my noggin in terms of always wearing headgear.

That's specifically thinking of concussions as hits to the head that dazed me in some way and I was still feeling it later in the day, at least. I may have gotten more elbows to the cheek and scratches in ground grappling, not sure.
 

MetalBoar

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Does that include bumps and bruises?
My understanding was that he felt that boxing jarred his head around the most, and maybe was the most concerning in terms of long term wear and tear and CTE, but in terms of really getting his bell rung, to the point he was sure he was concussed, it happened a lot more in BJJ than elsewhere.
 
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I'd focus on street fight striking. On full contact type striking. I my opinion they blend much better with BJJ than any one Art's striking. BJJ, again, in my opinion, is more practical than a lot of Arts. I think they would like it better, appreciate it more and make it fit better with what they do.
I have two follow-up questions:
  1. What do you mean when you say "they blend much better with BJJ than any one Art's striking"? What is "they" and how do they blend better?
  2. Would you ignore the stand-up grappling portions of TKD and HKD? Or would you include them as a sort of "bonus" exercise, or as part of the core curriculum?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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My understanding was that he felt that boxing jarred his head around the most, and maybe was the most concerning in terms of long term wear and tear and CTE, but in terms of really getting his bell rung, to the point he was sure he was concussed, it happened a lot more in BJJ than elsewhere.
That's really interesting. To my experience it was the exact opposite, particularly since there wasn't enough detachment/space to really "get bell rung-ed" in BJJ.

Curious to hear others weigh in on this.
 

Flying Crane

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@skribs i guess if you might teach in a primarily BJJ school then you would need to have some serious discussions with the owner/instruction staff/management of the school and see what they are interested in, and see if you are able to deliver.

I could see this going in one of several directions, and maybe in more than one, catering to different interests. On one hand, they may want a solid striking component for their BJJ guys; perhaps they are looking to work into MMA competitions? Or perhaps they want to broaden their client base by offering something different from BJJ, whether or not it is designed to perform in the MMA ring. Maybe they want both options.

So how you design your program would depend heavily on how those discussions go.

Youve already got a student from the Hapkido class in the BJJ class, and he is winning tournaments so I will guess that he is seen as a valuable club member whose opinions may be solicited. Would he put in a good word for you?
 
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skribs

skribs

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Youve already got a student from the Hapkido class in the BJJ class, and he is winning tournaments so I will guess that he is seen as a valuable club member whose opinions may be solicited. Would he put in a good word for you?
This was a former student at the school I currently attend. The school I'm hypothetically talking about is 2,129 miles away from my Hapkido school.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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My understanding was that he felt that boxing jarred his head around the most, and maybe was the most concerning in terms of long term wear and tear and CTE, but in terms of really getting his bell rung, to the point he was sure he was concussed, it happened a lot more in BJJ than elsewhere.
Wow! I guess that surprises me a bit.
 

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