Going to my first Hapkido school

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,316
Reaction score
8,032
I assume there was no example of him punching holes through people to back up the theory?
 
OP
skribs

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,389
Reaction score
2,483
I assume there was no example of him punching holes through people to back up the theory?
That was my Dad's opinion. This guy worked in LA and has an IMDB page. Our Master from our previous dojo had been an instructor in Korean Special Forces and even though he didn't say it, we got the sense he had used these techniques in a very martial application.

Similarly, my BJJ professor I do not believe has any martial experience (if you understand what I mean by context), but has plenty of BJJ competition experience.

Personally, I'm fine with saying your goal is to end the fight fast. That did line up with the way my Master taught Hapkido. In a self-defense situation, especially when you're alone, you don't want to be tangled up with someone. You want to get out as quick as possible. The parts I disagreed with is the hypocritical training method, and the blatant falsehoods about how other arts do things.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
12,149
Reaction score
6,209
Location
New York
I didn't doubt his HKD skills. I doubted his teaching methods.
I doubt his HKD skills. From my experience, when they have a need to dimish another style to new students, it means they don't trust their own skills. And when they don't trust their own skills, they don't work as promised.
 

Jared Traveler

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Jul 17, 2022
Messages
824
Reaction score
399
Having been in Hapkido for over 45 years I have had the opportunity to train in Korea many times and throughout the US with various Grand Masters and Masters I have been very fortunate in that sense. I did not start out wanting to teach or become an Instructor I simply wanted to perfect my skills and needed a partner to be able to fall without getting injured. A journey begins with the first step,

What I have found is that a lot of GM'S and Masters both Korean and others will never tell their students that they may only have basic knowledge of Hapkido such as a Blue or Red belt but claim they are a GM and adorn their Dojang with certificates kind of a "Pat myself on the back wall" receiving rank from a real reputable organization with real roots in Hapkido cats weight and if you choose another Dojang in most cases if the Dojang you trained with, has a good reputation it will open the doors for you.

Was originally a member of the KHA back in the seventies and eighties to the best of my knowledge I was one of the first Non -Koreans to attend the Instructors course in 1982 in Seoul. I then was with the WHF under GM Kwang Sik Myung and their first Non-Korean promoted to 5th Dan in 1987 under them. I have been with the KHF for many years and have concentrated on passing on what I have learned Hapkido has been my life. I do not teach for money as I am an Electrician and can support myself and my wife without the need to of looking at students as my meal ticket.

Find a Dojang that is a real Hapkido Dojang with the intent of teaching Hapkido not using it to supplement their TKD Dojang .You can PM me or Email me at [email protected] if you find a new home, I am sure I can tell you or find out if the teacher you choose is a real or supplemental Hapkido teacher
Hey brother, I appreciate your experience in Hapkido. I'm going to send you a PM, because I have some questions for you.
 
OP
skribs

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,389
Reaction score
2,483
I doubt his HKD skills. From my experience, when they have a need to dimish another style to new students, it means they don't trust their own skills. And when they don't trust their own skills, they don't work as promised.
Based on my meeting with one of his black belts last week and my lesson with him, and my own personal experience, I could tell there was something of value at this school. Last week (in the dark) his black belt showed me a few of their techniques and I felt the effectiveness. I could see the power he had in his version of the punch.

Like I said in my initial review, it would be worth it if it were the only option. If I felt everything was wrong, I wouldn't even give it that. It's kind of like how there are some songs you seek to listen to (my old school or my BJJ school), some songs you leave on the radio if they're on (this HKD school) and some songs you turn the radio off.

But when there are other options available, I'd rather take a class that's 10 minute warmup and 50 minutes martial arts than one that I only get 15 minutes of martial arts, and I have to sift through it to sort out what is valuable information and what is maybe not quite accurate.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
23,316
Reaction score
8,032
That was my Dad's opinion. This guy worked in LA and has an IMDB page. Our Master from our previous dojo had been an instructor in Korean Special Forces and even though he didn't say it, we got the sense he had used these techniques in a very martial application.

Similarly, my BJJ professor I do not believe has any martial experience (if you understand what I mean by context), but has plenty of BJJ competition experience.

Personally, I'm fine with saying your goal is to end the fight fast. That did line up with the way my Master taught Hapkido. In a self-defense situation, especially when you're alone, you don't want to be tangled up with someone. You want to get out as quick as possible. The parts I disagreed with is the hypocritical training method, and the blatant falsehoods about how other arts do things.

Ending fights fast is kind of a broken statement mostly.

Either it just doesn't understand that everyone wants to finish a guy with their first shot.

Or it doesn't understand that sometimes you sort of can't.

Otherwise rushing in to a random guy with no idea what he is capable of is a risky strategy.
 
OP
skribs

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,389
Reaction score
2,483
Ending fights fast is kind of a broken statement mostly.

Either it just doesn't understand that everyone wants to finish a guy with their first shot.

Or it doesn't understand that sometimes you sort of can't.

Otherwise rushing in to a random guy with no idea what he is capable of is a risky strategy.
Why are you rushing in? In these scenarios, the other person is the one rushing in to a random guy. The reason to end the fight fast is so they don't realize what you're capable of until they're in pain or broken, and at that point you're disengaged.

In MMA, the fight ends when one person is knocked out (or TKO'd), one person is tapped (simulating a choke or limb destruction), or the round ends. In self-defense, the fight ends when both fighters stop fighting, whether by choice, incapacitation, or if it's simply not possible to continue (i.e. because after punching them in the solar plexus, you were able to run away while they recover their breath). In MMA, you have a sanctioned fight that both fighters consented to and prepared for. In self-defense, you have a surprise attack and a surprise defense.
The strategy of ending the fight as quick as possible is about doing as much with that surprise defense as possible, to hopefully convince them to stop the attack, or at the very least get to a more advantageous position. For example, if you are carrying a firearm, any space you have to draw your weapon significantly increases your chance of self-defense.

You are right that you will not always be able to do this. This is where I feel cross-training in a sport art (or a sport guy cross-training in a self-defense focused art) can really help. Because the self-defense student can benefit from the "what if the fight lasts more than 10 seconds" from the sport art, and the sport guy can get into the mindset that a self-defense situation is drastically different than a sanctioned fight.
 

MetalBoar

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
518
Reaction score
469
Why are you rushing in? In these scenarios, the other person is the one rushing in to a random guy. The reason to end the fight fast is so they don't realize what you're capable of until they're in pain or broken, and at that point you're disengaged.

In MMA, the fight ends when one person is knocked out (or TKO'd), one person is tapped (simulating a choke or limb destruction), or the round ends. In self-defense, the fight ends when both fighters stop fighting, whether by choice, incapacitation, or if it's simply not possible to continue (i.e. because after punching them in the solar plexus, you were able to run away while they recover their breath). In MMA, you have a sanctioned fight that both fighters consented to and prepared for. In self-defense, you have a surprise attack and a surprise defense.
The strategy of ending the fight as quick as possible is about doing as much with that surprise defense as possible, to hopefully convince them to stop the attack, or at the very least get to a more advantageous position. For example, if you are carrying a firearm, any space you have to draw your weapon significantly increases your chance of self-defense.

You are right that you will not always be able to do this. This is where I feel cross-training in a sport art (or a sport guy cross-training in a self-defense focused art) can really help. Because the self-defense student can benefit from the "what if the fight lasts more than 10 seconds" from the sport art, and the sport guy can get into the mindset that a self-defense situation is drastically different than a sanctioned fight.
I really love this post. It does a good job of expressing something that I have tried to say a lot but that seems to get tangled up in peoples' preconceptions.

In a self defense situation I don't care about "winning" or beating my assailant, I only care about getting away without myself or anyone I care about getting serious hurt. For me, "ending fights fast" means literally that. If the fight ends because I apologize for something real or imagined and then immediately leave unharmed, that fight "ended fast". If I knock down or even unbalance my assailant long enough to get a sufficient head start to run away quickly, that fight "ended fast". If I knock my assailant out, that fight "ended fast". Etc.

A lot of people, both sport and TMA, seem to model SD situations like a sport fight or maybe a school yard tussle, with a winner and a loser, and they have a desire to beat their assailant. I'm not sure where this comes from, maybe a lot of people think of SD as dealing with a bully or standing up to the aggressive jerk in the bar. That's a subset of SD, I guess, but it doesn't seem super relevant for most people once they've left the artificially enforced environment of high school and grown up enough to avoid unnecessary bar fights. In my view the only way to "win" in an SD situation is to get out of it without anyone I care about getting hurt or going to jail. Even then it's only a relative win.
 

Doc

Senior Master
Joined
May 12, 2002
Messages
4,240
Reaction score
180
Location
Southern California
I've trained Hapkido with my Taekwondo Master and earned my blackbelt in Hapkido. However, I believe his curriculum is very different from a dedicated Hapkido school. He focused the vast majority of class on wristlocks and similar techniques, and very little on the striking aspect. We had 20+ TKD classes per week and 1 HKD class per week, so he would focus on the part that HKD excels in over TKD for that class.

Additionally, I've been in a lot of arguments discussions with people (on MartialTalk and on Reddit) who claim to do MMA or BJJ about the efficacy of HKD. (My favorite was someone who had taken one aikido class and told me exactly how he thinks we train in my HKD class). I have been training BJJ for around 6 months now. It is the freshest training in my mind.

My Dad (who also trained with me in both TKD and HKD at my old school, although he was only a blue belt in HKD) is looking to get into a new martial art. So he's going to check out a nearby HKD school. I'm gonna go with him to check it out. I think it's going to be interesting to compare with both of my experiences above. The experience in previous HKD schools, and my recent experience in BJJ.

I do plan to stick with BJJ, because that's the journey I'm on right now. But I do think it will benefit me to skip one BJJ class to go check out this one.
Hap Ki Do has changed over the years because of the lack of qualified teachers, so TKD has been claiming to teach HKD. If you're doing more wristlocks and throws then you probably have an old-school teacher who is actually teaching it. When I was coming up and studying with both Sea Oh Choi and Bong Soo Han they both described Hap Ki Do as Korean jiujitsu and criticized the TKD people who were co-opting the name because of the flood of TKD schools. One group even changed the name to Hawrangdo. I was there in the mid-sixties so I saw it.
 
Top