Phil Elmore
Master of Arts
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2002
- Messages
- 1,514
- Reaction score
- 54
Originally posted by A.R.K.
Very good article indeed :asian:
Do you frequently find yourself drawn into very long, extremely angry debates with those you believe you've "outed" (or with their supporters)?
Would starting a thread about this, having it locked only to begin a new thread on the same thing time and again be a good example of this? I'm talking thread after thread after thread for a period of several months being a good example?
Have you had to change your phone number, start screening your calls, and/or conceal your e-mail address because you're receiving frequent hate mail and even death threats?
Could this also include receiving emails from these types of individuals that include profanity? Actually several emails with profanity and hatred?
Have you engaged in intellectual dishonesty or rhetorical ploys in an effort to more easily win arguments you were not winning? Have you felt the need to "win" at any cost for the sake of others who might be reading such exchanges?
Would this cover something like saying 'this doesn't apply to anyone here in particular, just a general statement' even though the examples given are real familar to what's been covered in say...the last 100 + posts about the same individual? And coincidentally receiving the abusive emails personally at the same time...on the same subject?
Do you feel the need to congratulate yourself smugly whenever you think you've found even the most tenuous piece of "evidence" proving you "right?"
Would this include some of the following...
If a poster says he usually doesn't wear a belt, but does so in a picture i.e. photo opportunity...and then this type of individual JUMPS in with a link to the picture and a Ah Hah gotcha' type post...does that qualify? I thought 'usually' meant most times you don't and occasionally you do. And how would posting a picture of someone wearing their BB help you prove your 'fraud' case in anyway? Isn't that just causing strife?
If a poster says he doesn't display any wall candy and this type of individual JUMPS in and posts a link to a picture with wall candy on the walls and trophies in the background and a 'Ah hah gotcha' type post...does that qualify? Even when the individual comes back to explain he rented space at the local FOP and the wall candy and trophies were the FOP's race car winnings and had nothing to do with martial arts...is that just causing strife? Doesn't seem to prove anything..or even a reason for it to be posted unless there is a vendetta.
How about this type of individual claiming to call organizations that he knows someone doens't belong to and then 'proclaiming' they don't belong to that organization? How about saying the individual MUST belong to that organization to be credible...even though the discipline is not indigineous to that organization's country?
How about claiming any other organization the person belongs to is invalid...without giving a valid reason why?
Are you widely known for your "fraud busting" activities, to the extent that people you've never met hold negative opinions of you for it?
I suppose this is dead on as far as certain individuals reputations. Self-proclaimed martial police, yet have no universal standard or authority to go by....
None of these signs are definitive by themselves, but if you experience one or more of the items listed here, you may have a problem. It may indeed be time to step back and examine critically your online and real-world behavior.
Very well put. Seems to be several signs indeed. I suppose the abusive emails were the straw that broke the camels back.
Perhaps it's time to....
Examining ourselves in this fashion is never easy. None of us likes to look in the mirror and acknowledge that we have erred, that we have "gone too far." If, however, you've experienced any of these symptoms, it's time to take that look. Do you really want your life to be an endless cycle of bickering and hatred? Is your self-esteem really so shriveled and underfed that the only way you can salve your wounded ego is to viciously attack others?
Especially when an individual, the victim of the attack has repeatedly put out a hand in friendship and apologized for words spoken in the heat of the moment. Seems to not to accept a sincerely offered hand is perhaps signs of deep seated issues....
A very well done article Phil. It has opened my eyes in regards to some individuals hostility. The hand is still there, still offered, still hoping for peace....honest and true peace. We shall see...
:asian:
Originally posted by Don Roley .....But again, we can expect all the guys who parade around the web sites trying to impress others with their masterfull ability to stand up and very loudly announce that their accusers are the ones you are talking about.....
Originally posted by Don Roley
Of course Phil you realize that by writting this essay you have opened the door for every Virtual Tough Guy and Virtual Sensei to stand up and shout, "Look! Look! I'm being oppressed! Come see the violence in the system!" In fact, it seems to have started already.
If you had not written this, I am sure the Hikuta Troll, The Rupert clan and Jack Savage would all be trying to paint you as an obsesed fraud hunter.
I think the key element to the whole thing is that some people want attention on the internet. This seems to be the reason for VS and VTGs, but there are a few people who seem to think that being a fraud hunter is a good way to look good int he eyes of others.
There are those of us that live in Japan and see arts claiming to be Japanese and can not help but point out that they are unknown here. There are a few people who have been hurt by fraudulant teachers and do not want others to suffer the same fate. Even more just get sick of self proclaimed experts barging in the middle of message boards and giving out questionable advice in an effort to look good in the eyes of others. But the guy who hounded you and me does not fall into these catagories. He just seems to desire a repuatation on the internet as one of the good guys. And when he is not right, he has to bulldoze over that perception and go quickly over to the dark side.
Ever see the episode of South Park with the boxing match between Satan and Jesus? There was a sub plot about Damien and his attempts to get in with the other kids. No one liked him and Cartman would not invite him to his birthday. So Damien gets the idea to pick on Pip, who is even more hated than he. Since Damien bullies the kid everyone else hates, they accpet him and let him into the party.
All I ever needed to know I learned from South Park.
It is the same dynamic in some cases. Some people have web sites devoted to hounding frauds. Since no one likes frauds, they give respect to the person cleaning up cyberspace. Thus, the fraud buster never has to prove himslef in constructive ways. But when the person who is hounding the frauds does it to gain acceptence in the eyes of others, they are really only two degres of diffence between them and the VS and VTGs.
As the controversial Philosopher and author Ayn Rand would put it, they are second raters. They care more about the image they project to others than in the opinion of the person that stares back at them from the mirror. The image others hold of them is the image they have of themselves and to destroy that image in cyberspace is to destroy themselves- a form of death. So anyone who crosses them or does not help them in their crusade (like the time you caught one of them in controdictory statements about his Japanese ability) they are targeted for attack.
That I think is a key sign to look for. If the person must alway have it his way and everyone who does not agree with him is an enemy- then you have a second rater. The person who makes it a point to keep the boards as free of bad advice from frauds are not a problem as long as they do not start lashing out at anyone who does not support them.
But again, we can expect all the guys who parade around the web sites trying to impress others with their masterfull ability to stand up and very loudly announce that their accusers are the ones you are talking about.
Of course Phil you realize that by writting this essay you have opened the door for every Virtual Tough Guy and Virtual Sensei to stand up and shout, "Look! Look! I'm being oppressed! Come see the violence in the system!" In fact, it seems to have started already.
I think the key element to the whole thing is that some people want attention on the internet.
There are those of us that live in Japan and see arts claiming to be Japanese and can not help but point out that they are unknown here.
There are a few people who have been hurt by fraudulant teachers and do not want others to suffer the same fate.
Even more just get sick of self proclaimed experts barging in the middle of message boards and giving out questionable advice in an effort to look good in the eyes of others.
Ever see the episode of South Park with the boxing match between Satan and Jesus?
I've never gotten into an argument over the arts on this forum .Nothing to be solved by doing it. All I wanna do is teach, learn, and grow, nothing more.
Look at Me, Look at Me
The VTG likes to start things off quickly. He'll introduce himself to a forum by telling everyone things he assumes they must know, since obviously everyone is interested in his personal style and statistics. No one has asked, but the VTG is more than happy to march in and announce his credentials to those assembled.
Hi, I'm new here! Let me give you a little background. I'm 6', 215lbs, and built like a He-Man action figure. I'm old enough to have some experience, but too young to feel it yet.
A new poster on another site refered me here. Very nice site Looking forward to getting to know many of you here and hopefully learning many new things. I am the Soke of Zhao Dai Wei and have been blessed to have an extensive training background. Hopefully I will be able to offer insight and helpful information to fellow posters here as well as receive.
If you want to resolve this issue between you and RyuShiKan, perhaps you should look to your own behavior and take responsibility.
The central problem seems to be that you want to be accpeted as an experienced and skilled practicioner, but you do not seem very knowledgable about the subjects you talk about (case it point- your adopting the term "soke" without bothering to learn the full meaning beforehand) and you can not seem to prove any of your claims.
For all anyone knows, you are a yellow belt or less.
If you can prove otherwise, great.
Originally posted by A.R.K.
But I'm just not that worried about 'winning'. I'm not keeping score nor do I consider this a game.
Issues could have rested months ago if not for agendas, vendettas and ego. Its a waste of time, effort, energy and thread space. Time for it to cease.
This dog doesn't roll over, he bites back. If someone is going to outright lie about me they should be prepared...
I don't expect Robert to become all warm and fuzzy, but I expect the endless threads, pointless inuendos and lies to cease.