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[7starmantis]

Hey guys, this forum is a little slow these days! Anyone got anything interesting to bring up? Any questions?
Here we go, has anyone heard of, visited, or trained in the Shaolin Temple in Florida?


7sm

 

[arnisador]

What weapons does praying mantis have? how integrated with the empty hand are they, i.e., in arnis we say that using the knife really improves our open hand fighting.

I find the mantis styles very interesting and am happy to use this opportunity to pick your brain!

 

[7starmantis]

I would not expect that many have used, or at least learned effectivly all these weapons, but here is a list of the basic weapons associated with mantis sytle.

1. Double Daggers
2. Double Sai
3. Double Broadsword
4. Large Sweeper
5. Nine Ring Long-Handle Sword
6. Double Axe
7. Double Halberd
8. Double Head Spear
9. Nine Ring Broadsword
10. Double Double-edge Sword
11. Butterfly Knife
12. Flute
13. Walking Cane
14. Fire Wheel
15. Fan
16. Hammer
17. Bow and Arrow
18. Seven Sectional Chain
19. Golden Coin Shovel
20. Tiger Fork
21. Long Handle Axe
22. General Kwan Long Sword
23. Chay Yang Long-handle Sword
24. Moonteeth Shovel
25. Army Sword
26. Halberd
27. Spear
28. Snake Spear
29. Staff
30. Hook
31. 3-Sectional Stick
32. Shield

Generally you are encouraged to use a "handfull" and thats about it. The philosophy is to "master" your art. If you master one or a few weapons you have done moer than learning how to use all of them in a basic way. It is not generally conceded that your weapons forms will improve your open-hand technique, because in Mantis sytel, your hands are are used much differently, ie lots of traps, and sticking, joint locks, and the like. Plucking is a major technique that to truly master is amazing. But it is so differnet than using any type of weapon.

7sm

 

[arnisador]

Wow! What a list! How many forms are there for those 32 weapons? How many empty-hand and two-man forms too?

Here's something I've wondered about before. Other CMAs seem to have the same policy--you don't have to learn everything because there's so much. So, how does the complete art get passed down?

 

[arnisador]

I don't know this term. What does it refer to?

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by arnisador

Wow! What a list! How many forms are there for those 32 weapons? How many empty-hand and two-man forms too?

Here's something I've wondered about before. Other CMAs seem to have the same policy--you don't have to learn everything because there's so much. So, how does the complete art get passed down?

Haha, don't get me started on the shovels! I can't seem to find a valid reason to be dragging one of these down the street when I'm attacked! :rofl: j/k
The list is so long because you are only expected to learn 18 of the weapons. Then you have mastered the "18 kinds of martial technique". Ok the coin shovel:

And now the Moonteth:

As far as the entire art being passed down, I don't believe it is very often. Thats why you still see sifu's going to China to train, and still learning new forms. I think its more or less finding the people who have done these particular forms, learning those, then finding these other people who know these particular forms, learning those....ect. I think that would be the only way to learn a Kung Fu style in its entirety. Thats just my humble opinion though.

Oh, I almost forgot, there are 4 forms to each weapon in yoru eighten, so I would assume 4 for each weapon all together.


7sm

 

[arnisador]

The coin shovel looks cool! I have seen the moontooth one before but not the coin version.

So it isn't clear that anyone knows the whole art of 7 star praying mantis? Is there anyone acknowledged as the headmaster or inheritor?

 

[7starmantis]

Plucking is the technique in mantis of yielding your oponent off balance. Its hard to describe.... If you were to throw a punch at me, I would not back away, but colapse my guard hand and yield my body, turning at the waiste. You punch would come inches from my chest as I yeilded. While doing that I would perform a grab on your arm above the wrist, not holding on tight, but basicaly "riding" your wrist, until you are at the end of your punch. Since you didn't hit me, your are now extended, it takes very little for me to "help" your arm continue its punch past my body until you are off balance, and as you "stumble" towards me off balance, I would simply have a fist or kick waiting for you to run into.
That probably made no sense at all! Its hard to explain, and even harder to master. But once you have mastered it, no one can touch you! We do drills with other students where one punches entirely, and the other student cannot block any punches, only yields his/her body out of the way. Its very tough!!


7sm:asian:

 

[arnisador]

I've had that done to me by a mantis person--I understand. It reminds me of Tai Chi push hands in some ways.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by arnisador

The coin shovel looks cool! I have seen the moontooth one before but not the coin version.

So it isn't clear that anyone knows the whole art of 7 star praying mantis? Is there anyone acknowledged as the headmaster or inheritor?

Well, the way it is looked at is that you never stop learning. So no one claims to "know" the entire system, only different techniques and forms. There are those who know all the forms, and there are a few who know all the weapons, but only very few claim that, and even then it is hard to get a master or grandmaster to claim he knows alot, he is most likely to tell you he knows nothing, and is only beginning to learn! This is the official lineage, from founder Wang Lang to present. OK the lineage wouldn't correctly on the post. Here is the link for a site that has a VERY in depth lineage list.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by arnisador

I've had that done to me by a mantis person--I understand. It reminds me of Tai Chi push hands in some ways.

Yes, very much so. Man, it is really dangerous when mastered! My sifu allways amazes me when he does it to me!

 

[chufeng]

When you get that technique down, you can lure your opponent in by leaving what looks like an opening...then when they come in for it...

:asian:
chufeng

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by chufeng

When you get that technique down, you can lure your opponent in by leaving what looks like an opening...then when they come in for it...

:asian:
chufeng

Yeah, dangit, Sifu does that to me all the time! I'm all, "oh yeah, I finally got a solid punch in on sifu, in front of everyone", then........I'm getting off the floor!


7sm

 

[theneuhauser]

hey im falling behind on some good discussion here!


i always describe mantis boxing as fast and cautious at the same time. although most people say that its highly aggressive, and it can be very offensive and aggressive, but the techniques can be indirect or very uncomitted.

for example: you were describing "plucking". its basically a grab, but the difference is that rather than seizing the opponents leverage point (like in chin na) you use the mantis hand which really just steers the attack away without endangering your own balance by holding on tightly.
Also, many striking techniques are applied rapidly, but without 100% power, i assume that this is also for maintaining balance.
:idunno:

 

[Skarbromantis]

7starmantis who is your Sifu?

And how come you only have to learn 18 weapons?

Skard1

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by theneuhauser


for example: you were describing "plucking". its basically a grab, but the difference is that rather than seizing the opponents leverage point (like in chin na) you use the mantis hand which really just steers the attack away without endangering your own balance by holding on tightly.
Also, many striking techniques are applied rapidly, but without 100% power, i assume that this is also for maintaining balance.
:idunno:

Yeah, there is alot of focus on using your opponents energy. The grabs are exicuted in such a way to allow quick release also used to get your opponent off balance. There is a focus on saving your balance, so "feeling" your opponent is a major technique. I don't know that they are without 100% power as much as with a different focus on control of them. Most strikes are accompanied by a lock, twist, kick, sweep, something else so that you are constantly giving somethign else in case they are able to block your first attempt. I wouldn't say I'm a master by any stretch, so this is just what I have learned up to now, but thats how I have understood it so far.

7sm

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Skarbromantis

7starmantis who is your Sifu?

And how come you only have to learn 18 weapons?

Skard1

I study under Sifu Brandon Jones. You don't have to learn only 18 weapons, but thats the focus. I don't know any students who do know 18 weapons, let alone more. You can allways learn more, but we focus on "mastering" before moving on.


7sm

Sifu Jones

 

[theneuhauser]

in wah lum, we had an 18 weapon curriculum as well. many of which i train now with my new wushu instructor.

i only practiced half of them, and of those i would say i am only proficient in stick(staff) and straightsword. maybe spear.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by theneuhauser

in wah lum, we had an 18 weapon curriculum as well. many of which i train now with my new wushu instructor.

i only practiced half of them, and of those i would say i am only proficient in stick(staff) and straightsword. maybe spear.

Thats cool, staff and straightsword are my favorites too!!

7sm

 

[theneuhauser]

have you tried any of the other less common weapons?

double butterfly sword is really good and fan is nice.