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theneuhauser
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gotta go, good subject, though, well try it later.
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- Thread starter 7starmantis
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theneuhauser
Guest
ok lets revive that topic,
i dont know much about this, its more like a fairy tale, so hopefully someone will see this and be able to shed some light, i have few facts to offer.
but the story basically tells that wang lang told his four disciples to go out and capture a praying mantis because they were so good that they could each have their own system (detect any sarcasm?). they came back with the insects and each one had a different pattern on it's back. (thorax or wings?). now, there was one with seven stars, one with a yin yang, one with a plum flower shape and one that was blank. now there were four new styles based on these creatures.
it is my belief that mantis boxing was not first a combat style. its origin is hard to tell but it definitely dates back to the early shaolin kung fu days. and its my belief(just my opinion) that many of the animal forms were not initially developed for fighting, and rather for excercise as the story of Boddhidarma tells. through fitness and the necessity for defense, the "animal excercises" translated into martial skills. its a logical progression in a lot of ways-monks need excercise, monks mimic nature, monks are endagered and they once again turn to nature for guidance.
now wang lang either developed the excercises or modified the fighting system of the mantis, and i would guess that he had something to do with the addition of the excercises. and if you examine the four hundred year gap in mantis history(after wang lang) you could guess that during this long period of time is when it underwent its adaptaions. and there were quite a few. for example, the combat system incorporated the leg techniques of the monkey (praying mantis' dont use there rear legs for much) and where did the big wheel attacks come from? thats not very mantis like.
legends tell stories that often simplify the whole account, its easier and its natural. so, no i dont believe the story as its told today, but i do believe that plum flower, 7star, and taiji praying mantis were the direct products of centuries in shaolin.
i dont know much about this, its more like a fairy tale, so hopefully someone will see this and be able to shed some light, i have few facts to offer.
but the story basically tells that wang lang told his four disciples to go out and capture a praying mantis because they were so good that they could each have their own system (detect any sarcasm?). they came back with the insects and each one had a different pattern on it's back. (thorax or wings?). now, there was one with seven stars, one with a yin yang, one with a plum flower shape and one that was blank. now there were four new styles based on these creatures.
it is my belief that mantis boxing was not first a combat style. its origin is hard to tell but it definitely dates back to the early shaolin kung fu days. and its my belief(just my opinion) that many of the animal forms were not initially developed for fighting, and rather for excercise as the story of Boddhidarma tells. through fitness and the necessity for defense, the "animal excercises" translated into martial skills. its a logical progression in a lot of ways-monks need excercise, monks mimic nature, monks are endagered and they once again turn to nature for guidance.
now wang lang either developed the excercises or modified the fighting system of the mantis, and i would guess that he had something to do with the addition of the excercises. and if you examine the four hundred year gap in mantis history(after wang lang) you could guess that during this long period of time is when it underwent its adaptaions. and there were quite a few. for example, the combat system incorporated the leg techniques of the monkey (praying mantis' dont use there rear legs for much) and where did the big wheel attacks come from? thats not very mantis like.
legends tell stories that often simplify the whole account, its easier and its natural. so, no i dont believe the story as its told today, but i do believe that plum flower, 7star, and taiji praying mantis were the direct products of centuries in shaolin.
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theneuhauser
Guest
there are somewhere between 2000 and 3000 species of praying mantids on the planet-many of which are found in central asia (former zoology major here). and its possible that there could be a species with a typical star pattern, but ive never seen one with a yin/yang on its back before.
OP
OP
It is also said that the name 7 star was given because the "decendants" of the art would be as numerous as the people who could see the big dipper star constelation. (It has 7 stars in it). I don't know what I really believe about all these stories, there is the issue of the footwork, it is taken from the monkey. So there has to have been some adaptation period for the system itself, like theneuhauser said earlier.
7sm
Ah! I've seen and felt the technique, though I wasn't aware of the name, and to me it is what makes kung-fu that extra bit special for fighting. You can't begin to explain to a Japanese or Korean practitioner what it's all about.
My Southern Shaolin teacher used to do it by rolling his arm as he twisted his waist. I'd throw a guarded punch to stay on balance but he'd just roll his arm and I would be lurching forward without feeling the pull. What skill!
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Yes, it is a great skill and one that is SO HARD to master!!! I just hope one day I will have the ease that those guys do. Its an amazing way to end the fight as well!!
7sm
7sm
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Ok, this thread needs revisiting again!
I have been involved in some other threads and it has caused me to think a bit about "ground fighting". I've never really specialized in "grappling" but everyone on these boards seem to think you need to train in it to be well rounded. I feel that my system provides me with enough ground moves and evasive moves to not need extra training on ground fighting. Anyone else feel this way about their system ?
7sm
I have been involved in some other threads and it has caused me to think a bit about "ground fighting". I've never really specialized in "grappling" but everyone on these boards seem to think you need to train in it to be well rounded. I feel that my system provides me with enough ground moves and evasive moves to not need extra training on ground fighting. Anyone else feel this way about their system ?
7sm
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theneuhauser
Guest
fact is, us CMA guys are not great grapplers, nor do we try to be.
7star, i think you are a big guy like me, we dont need much ground fighting ability. if you have good technique and balance, and you know how to deliver an attack, you usually wont end up on your back. also, taiji has got to be the best antivenin to a grappler. i trained occasionally with a talented jujitsu fighter for a almost a year, the majority of the time, my taiji kept me off my back. he was also strong kickboxer. often, he said i was impossible to take down.
balance and quick thinking are valuable skills.
im sure that i could be bested on the ground by many fighters, but i could also be bested on my feet by many as well. i study what i like and choose, not according to somebody's silly formula for 100% invulnerability on the "street" or whatever the heck im always hearing.
7star, i think you are a big guy like me, we dont need much ground fighting ability. if you have good technique and balance, and you know how to deliver an attack, you usually wont end up on your back. also, taiji has got to be the best antivenin to a grappler. i trained occasionally with a talented jujitsu fighter for a almost a year, the majority of the time, my taiji kept me off my back. he was also strong kickboxer. often, he said i was impossible to take down.
balance and quick thinking are valuable skills.
im sure that i could be bested on the ground by many fighters, but i could also be bested on my feet by many as well. i study what i like and choose, not according to somebody's silly formula for 100% invulnerability on the "street" or whatever the heck im always hearing.
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I'm glad to hear someone say those things. I was begining to think I was a vast majority. I don't study very many ground techniques at all, and I just have never really found a use for them. I'm a big guy and I guess I have learned the "technique" of grounding. I can see what you mean about taiji too, now that you say it. The times I get taken to the ground by my sifu or someone I'm sparring with, I wouldn't have gotten up anyway!!
7sm
7sm
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Thought I might revise this thread again. Its been quite a while, but it has some good discussions on it. Re-reading it, its funny seeing how much I've learned and grown in just a years time. I've had the opportunity to see GM Chan Pui in action and I was completely amazed. We were talking about his legitimacy earlier in the thread and I didn't know enough about my own lineage to realize who we were talking about. We don't really claim CP's lineage at my school as we are a 7* school, but my sigung trained and then tought at CP's School many years back. GM Pui was actually showcased a bit in the XMA - Extreme Martial ARts show that was on a while back. His skill is almost unbelievable, even to a trained MAist like myself. Oh to have a piece of his skill level!
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WLMantisKid
Guest
Hear, hear 
I've been studying Wah Lum for a little over a month and a half now and I already love it. Took some TKD as a kid but dropped it but now im back into the MA world and it's fun.
My Sifu was one of Sigung Chan's students and Sifu is also a really good teacher so, yeah. Just my little plug.
We do wrestling hands PM and it sounds like what we do is a little different from the plucking technique described. We do something more akin to caging the punch in between our arms, using the mantis hands to grab certain parts (all in cat stance) and then dropping straight down using our weight to literally drop our opponent to the knees. Opens them up to some fists and knees. Very amazing to watch Sifu do it.
But I can't really comment on other things, I haven't even scratched the surface of what true Wah Lum is, I'm just getting the basic Northern PM stuff right now
I've been studying Wah Lum for a little over a month and a half now and I already love it. Took some TKD as a kid but dropped it but now im back into the MA world and it's fun.
My Sifu was one of Sigung Chan's students and Sifu is also a really good teacher so, yeah. Just my little plug.
We do wrestling hands PM and it sounds like what we do is a little different from the plucking technique described. We do something more akin to caging the punch in between our arms, using the mantis hands to grab certain parts (all in cat stance) and then dropping straight down using our weight to literally drop our opponent to the knees. Opens them up to some fists and knees. Very amazing to watch Sifu do it.
But I can't really comment on other things, I haven't even scratched the surface of what true Wah Lum is, I'm just getting the basic Northern PM stuff right now
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Yeah, we do some wah lum in our school as well. My Sigung taught under Chan Pui at the temple in florida, so we probably do alot of the same things as far as wah lum. What you described does sound like a technique we use as well as the plucking technqiues.
Wah Lum is awesome, good luck in your training,
7sm
Wah Lum is awesome, good luck in your training,
7sm
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marshallbd
Guest
This has nothing to do with what is in the quote....Do you know of any quality instructors of Chinese styles here in Elkins West Virginia or the surrounding area? Anyone feel free to answer this for me....Thanks! :asian:7starmantis said:
7starmantis said:
Hi 7sm
Thats an impressive list of weapons! In my style of Kung Fu we do staff, and sword and have started to use nunchukus ( rice flails). I know my instructor is trying to organise seminars and course on other wepoans because I'm quite interested in learning about the rope dart as I have seen Jet Li use that in many of his films. This seems very practical because you can learn to use yout belt or anything else to great effect!
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Yes, I look forward to learning that weapon in particular. Its one of the hardest from what I understand. The soft weapons are more advanced than the hard weapons and the rope dart is one of the most advanced of the soft weapons. We do alot of weapons seminars and workshops but I'm trying to really "master" the basics before moving on to the more advanced. I would rather be extremely proficient with a few than just ok with many. I have my whole life so I'll get there, but the rope dart is one I'm really looking forward to learning!Tony said:
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marshallbd
Guest
Wow! you two guys are nuts! (Said with much respect intended!) :asian: That rope dart looks dangerous to the user as well as the person on the business end of it!!!!7starmantis said:
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Haha, yeah my philosophy on the soft weapons is that using one of them means someone is going to get hurt. The more time you put in practicing with the weapon the smaller the chances are that you will be the one hurt!marshallbd said:
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GermanMantis
Guest
I've seen that there were some talking about the melon hammers. O.K. the post is nearly two years old . I learned a form with them and guys they are bloody heavy! There are a lot of figure 8 movements and i can only do the form 1 and 1/2 time until my arms are exhausted. Realy nice weapons, but hard to handle. BTW Single Tiger Hook is also nice weapon.
Grettings
. I learned a form with them and guys they are bloody heavy! There are a lot of figure 8 movements and i can only do the form 1 and 1/2 time until my arms are exhausted. Realy nice weapons, but hard to handle. BTW Single Tiger Hook is also nice weapon.Grettings
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Thats ok, I love seeing old threads revived! I haven't learned melon hammers, but I can imagine its pretty exhausting! I've seen them done many times, and it looks tough. I'm supposed to learn the single hook sword pretty soon, so we'll see how that goes.7sm
