Theh "bodies" exhibit

[jks9199]

As a science teacher and a student who has actually taken part in a full human dissection, I can say that nothing really beats the real thing when it comes to really knowing anatomy. These kinds of exhibits are a wonderful opportunity for the average person to see the reality of one's own insides. My only concern are the ethics involved in the display of the bodies. The persons or the families need to agree to this or it crosses a line for me.

One thing that I am wondering, for those of you who are against shows like this, how else do you think a normal person could go and see a real cadaver dissection if they would like to learn about it? Is there any appropriate way to display a dead body so that normal people can study it?

For those who need it -- there is no substitute. But a display of plasticized bodies is not a dissection; it's something between art and education and science (and maybe a little macabre-ness).

 

[StrongFighter]

As a science teacher and a student who has actually taken part in a full human dissection, I can say that nothing really beats the real thing when it comes to really knowing anatomy.

I agree, nothing beats the real thing. Dissection of the human body is not for everybody.

The human body exhibit that Dr. Von Hagens has is probably the next best thing to a full human dissection.

I also have some concerns with people who are mentally unstable and they see the real human exhibit in a museum. They start to get ideas and go from there.

Normal people may be fascinated or think it is disgusting then go home and talk about Dr. Von Hagens museum of real human exhibit pieces done for the benefit of science and mankind.

 

[shesulsa]

I agree, nothing beats the real thing. Dissection of the human body is not for everybody.

The human body exhibit that Dr. Von Hagens has is probably the next best thing to a full human dissection.

I also have some concerns with people who are mentally unstable and they see the real human exhibit in a museum. They start to get ideas and go from there.

Normal people may be fascinated or think it is disgusting then go home and talk about Dr. Von Hagens museum of real human exhibit pieces done for the benefit of science and mankind.

You must be either really young, really inexperienced in the world or VERY isolated.

People who are mentally unstable would get ideas from the meat counter at the supermarket.

Though I do think there should be a minimum age requirement for the exhibit - and the sources of donation investigated and regulated.

 

[elder999]

People who are mentally unstable would get ideas from the meat counter at the supermarket..

Or from TV, or from the newspapers, or from people they come in contact with every day...........

....or from their dog, Sam, or the other voices in their head.

 

[StrongFighter]

I am just saying it is not a good idea for people who are mentally unstable to view the exhibit because police officers would be very busy racing to stop a killer, solve the puzzle and save lives.

Of course, they can get ideas from many sources. I think Son of Sam got his ideas from a dog.

Many serial killers in their jail house interview mention different ways they got their ideas from before going on a crime spree.

On the History Channel. I think Charles Manson said he got his ideas from the devil and sensual ladies. The world of serial killer's minds aren't normal. It never is.

Anyways, back on topic. It is good to have some kind of medical exhibit that can positively benefit science and mankind.

 

[StrongFighter]

You must be either really young, really inexperienced in the world or VERY isolated.

It has nothing to do with that. I have met plenty of people that are really crazy on the streets. That is one of the reasons why I don't hang out with them.

 

[StrongFighter]

Excuse me, doube post.

 

[shesulsa]

Back on topic ...

Maunakuma have you ever seen a virtual autopsy? OMSI also had one of those available for viewing during a CSI exhibit.

 

[Makalakumu]

Back on topic ...

Maunakuma have you ever seen a virtual autopsy? OMSI also had one of those available for viewing during a CSI exhibit.

Yeah, LOL, I actually have a funny story about that. One year, while filling out my wish list for science supplies I slipped in an order for a cadaver for the hell of it. The secretary calls me frantically and tells me under no circumstances will there be a dead body in the school. It would creep her out to no end because she usually stays late.

I ended up getting some software for a virtual autopsy and taking field trips to the University of Minnesota's cadaver lab. Anyway, the software is good to get the basics, but the thing about the software that you don't get is that sometimes where things should be, they aren't in real life. For example, the software approximates where certain tissues are and gives you an average. In real life, things are not always where they should be. It's why "nerve" strikes don't always work on certain people. The place where the "nerve" should be isn't where it actually is.

 

[jks9199]

I am just saying it is not a good idea for people who are mentally unstable to view the exhibit because police officers would be very busy racing to stop a killer, solve the puzzle and save lives.

Of course, they can get ideas from many sources. I think Son of Sam got his ideas from a dog.

Many serial killers in their jail house interview mention different ways they got their ideas from before going on a crime spree.

On the History Channel. I think Charles Manson said he got his ideas from the devil and sensual ladies. The world of serial killer's minds aren't normal. It never is.

Anyways, back on topic. It is good to have some kind of medical exhibit that can positively benefit science and mankind.

Sorry, it's not that easy. Except in your very special, very simple world.

I'm not even confident you could build a correlation between exhibits like this and criminal activity -- let alone any sort of causal link.

And Charlie Manson? Don't believe a word he says. He's a very unique case of intelligent psychopathology and charisma. He'll say anything that suits his needs for the moment.

 

[elder999]

And Charlie Manson? Don't believe a word he says. He's a very unique case of intelligent psychopathology and charisma. He'll say anything that suits his needs for the moment.

For example: Charles Manson never killed anyone, that we know of, including those murders he was convicted for....

 

[StrongFighter]

Sorry, it's not that easy. Except in your very special, very simple world.

I have lived in the big city before as well the rural areas. I live in the real world. I just happen to have conservative and very strong opinions and I am very passionate about what I believe in.

I'm not even confident you could build a correlation between exhibits like this and criminal activity -- let alone any sort of causal link.

Let's see, Shesulsa said " Though I do think there should be a minimum age requirement for the exhibit - and the sources of donation investigated and regulated. "

I said " I am just saying it is not a good idea for people who are mentally unstable to view the exhibit because police officers would be very busy racing to stop a killer, solve the puzzle and save lives. "

Of course from this, you can deduct that it is impossible to screen out mentally unstable people from viewing that exhibit which was done for the benefit of science and mankind. You only just can do so much.

I think it is good that a realistic display of the human anatomy is being shown. I just question the manner in which it is being shown.

Like you said ... " For those who need it -- there is no substitute. But a display of plasticized bodies is not a dissection; it's something between art and education and science (and maybe a little macabre-ness). "


And Charlie Manson? Don't believe a word he says. He's a very unique case of intelligent psychopathology and charisma. He'll say anything that suits his needs for the moment.

If you think I hold any fascination with Manson. I don't and in fact, I find him very disgusting and despicable.

If you have seen the interview with the prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi on the History Channel.

I was cheering and saying yes because I agreed with the district attorney, Mr. Bugliosi.

I have been a victim of violent crime before so I understood exactly what Mr. Bugliosi was saying.

Mr. Bugliosi argued the case very brilliantly that Manson was not present for the murder incident but he put the girls up to murder which means he is still a murderer. The girls could have said no even if they feared for their lives but the girls chose to commit murder offenses which was unfortunate.

What ultimately did Manson in was that he had his hand written in blood. There was one fingerprint and it was Charlie Manson's fingerprint. I am happy he is locked up for life. There were witnesses, the girls who committed the murders on orders from Charlie. I think that is four or five girls who participated in the murders of innocent people who did nothing more than getting ready for bed and turn the lights off.

I am just disappointed he was not sentenced to death. I think the girls were sentenced to death and not him.

I think California overturned the death penalty thanks to the liberals.

If someone was deserving of the death penalty. It would be Manson. The girls should have been sentenced to life.

I would have to watch the History Channel again. Mr. Bugliosi was a very excellent district attorney. I liked how Mr. Bugliosi thinks.

Can you imagine in today's liberal politically correct world that pinning a murder on the mastermind is unheard of because you can't prove he did it, even though you know he did it. The politically correct " thought police " would not allow it, even if it was the right thing to do.

 

[jks9199]

Can you imagine in today's liberal politically correct world that pinning a murder on the mastermind is unheard of because you can't prove he did it, even though you know he did it. The politically correct " thought police " would not allow it, even if it was the right thing to do.

Actually, it's very common. You might consider looking into how federal prosecutors are using VICAR, RICO, and conspiracy laws to target gang members.

 

[elder999]

I am just disappointed he was not sentenced to death. I think the girls were sentenced to death and not him.

I think California overturned the death penalty thanks to the liberals.

If someone was deserving of the death penalty. It would be Manson. The girls should have been sentenced to life.
.

They all got sentenced to death. California overturned the death penalty, and their sentences were commuted to life.......

....maybe when they do die, we can sell their bodies for plasticizing to the Chinese....:lfao:

 

[shesulsa]

For someone who wanted to get back on topic, you sure like to sway it, doncha, fella?

 

[Flea]

Wooooowww.

Usually when it comes to these "crazies are dangerous" conversations I'm the one who sticks myself out there to set people straight. As someone with bipolar it lends me a lot of credibility so I'm glad to do it. But here? People keep beating me to it!

:whip1:

Between the "aiding in psychosis" thread and this one, it does my heart good. There are a few things I could add here, but it's really all been said and I thank you all.

Instead, I'll take advantage of some of the references people have cited and make make a more educated decision about whether to go to this. As I said before, now that I know about the controversy I'd have to do my homework on this, because if there were any question in my mind I wouldn't enjoy it anyway. Again, for calling my attention to these questions ... I thank you all.

 

[Kacey]

I should state that the exhibit I saw was Body Worlds by Gunther von Hagens at OMSI. I recall the statement that they are able to provide release documents for the cadavers, though I have not investigated it.

This is the one I saw as well - the Denver Museum of History and Science stated clearly and repeatedly that the cadavers were donated either by the family or by the person prior to death. I took the Museum's word for it, and found the display fascinating - but I do have concerns about how the bodies were procured if, indeed, the accusations are true.

 

[Flea]

I finally made it to the show today!

I kind of wish I hadn't. I love studying the human form so I had some wierd kind of rock-star expectation about getting in to something I'd wanted to see for a long time. And it really was fascinating to see everything laid out.

It was also incredibly macabre. I didn't expect to have that reaction. It hit me with the "child's spinal column" laid out flat like a centipede. Right next to it was another spine still encased in vertebrae, skull attached. It was propped up on a clear plastic thingie a bit carelessly. There was also the vertical cross-section of a man in what looked like inch-think slices. And the similar cross section of someone's head from back to front. The final section was the face, but with the tip of the nose and the lips gone, leaving a grimace. It didn't help that the venue is still under construction and had that "creepy abandoned warehouse" feel. Abandoned no, but still an old warehouse just finding its new legs. There was a lot of construction equipment hidden behind a hanging tarp.

Of course the best part was the full figures. I found the blurbs written up for them to be a little glib, but there was a road map so the untrained eye could identify all the organs. Call me perverse, but my favorite part was the fetuses. There was something very lovely and poetic about that; I can't articulate what.

When I got home I threw all my meat into the freezer until further notice. I was going to have a pork chop for lunch, but it just looked too ... familiar. I'll go veggie for a few days. Instead of the pork chop I had fried rice with mushrooms, spinach, peas, bell peppers, onions, parsley, savory, and chopped almonds. Never let it be said that Flea doesn't know her way around the kitchen!

 

[Tez3]

We've had the live autopsies on the television, these were of donated bodies with permission given by either themselves before death or relatives. I found it quite fascinating, I even ate while watching them though to be fair I can eat through most things. There were some complaints about showing it live though.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/jan/27/broadcasting.channel41

 

[Flea]

It wasn't until going back over my post that I realized the pun on this:

an old warehouse just finding its new legs

:uhyeah: