The Slow Lie

Touch Of Death

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I keep seeing people post about how going slow helps your technique. It doesn't. The thing that helps about going slow is that other people can see what you are doing, and correct you. That is it! :)
 

Mephisto

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I keep seeing people post about how going slow helps your technique. It doesn't. The thing that helps about going slow is that other people can see what you are doing, and correct you. That is it! :)
Well this thread is gonna piss a lot of people off, lol. Largely I agree with the op, but with some logical exceptions. A beginner needs a certain amount of compliant and patient training at a slow speed. The same applies for learning new material you can't always go as fast as possible, this is pretty obvious though. However, once a technique is learned the speed and intensity it is trained should constantly increase.

I've trained in FMA systems where advanced students are still doing slow compliant one steps. I think it's fine for a warmup but when the majority of class is spent training in this manner for advanced students I start to question the training method.

The closer you get to real time training the more your training simulates reality. If the majority of your training time is slow and compliant, then the majority of your training does not reflect reality. Reality is sloppy and chaotic, it's fine to seek perfection in what you do but don't seek perfection to the point that performance in real time is ignored in favor of some idealized version of a perfect combat reality.
 

yak sao

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I'm sure this is directed at me as I just posted this last night:

To learn how to kick fast, kick slow.
If you always practice fast, it is easy to overlook flaws in your technique, plus movements tend to be kind of jerky and tense.
By practicing slowly you will develop good technique and a smoothness to your movement that will translate into speed.


Try this experiment. Kick high and fast, say face height.....now do the exact same kick, only this time s l o w l y.
Much tougher isn't it? The first time you are using muscle plus momentum, while the second time you are training the muscles used in kicking without the aid of momentum.


The person who asked this was obviously a beginner. And my advice to him was the same I would give to any beginner, or anyone learning something new.
And that advice is: "Don't worry about going fast...learn the technique, go slowly, study it, become smooth with it. If you do this, then the movement naturally becomes faster as it becomes more efficient.
 

Tony Dismukes

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I keep seeing people post about how going slow helps your technique. It doesn't. The thing that helps about going slow is that other people can see what you are doing, and correct you. That is it! :)
Well, another important benefit is that the person doing the technique can notice the details of what they are doing and refine it. I regularly tell students to slow down a technique they are learning or fixing because when they go fast they have no conscious awareness of the details and keep repeating the same mistakes. The students who refuse to slow down generally take a lot longer to learn the techniques correctly. This is particularly true for jiu-jitsu where there are a lot of small details that have to be internalized.

That isn't to say you should always train slowly or that training slowly is always beneficial. If you practice a technique too slowly you can actually change the body dynamics from what they need to be for actual execution. Even if you do perfect the correct form in slow motion, you do need to practice it full speed as well.
 

Shai Hulud

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Performing a technique in slow-motion will allow you and your instructor to refine and polish it. At best it'll condition you (and your muscles) as to how to "sink" into the technique's form. It won't do much for your combat skills though. To acquire those, you must train at regular, full speed and stop viewing individual techniques in isolation from each other. Find out how each works and what you can do with it, string it all together, then fight at regular speed like the rest of the MA world. :)
 

tshadowchaser

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I like to practice my sparring in almost slow motion it confuses the heck out of my opponent and gives him more time to hit me :rolleyes:
There are time for both actual slow training and times for fast paced training. It depends on the drill and the level of experience the practitioner has doing the drill. Sometimes going slow and feeling what your body is doing when trying to force the power through your arms or feet gives you a different sense of what your doing.
Come to think about it I believe there are a few arts Thatch practice their techniques in slow motion the majority of the time. So is the OP saying these arts are practicing what they do incorrectly?
 

Argus

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To borrow a quote from the shooting world:

Fast is slow. Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.

If you're always going for speed, you will never take the time to slow down and refine your movement. When you slow down, you can take the time to find any unnecessary or inefficient movement, and eliminate it. And then, in order to train yourself to apply that movement at speed, you need to rewrite your muscle memory with that refined motion -- first going slow, and gradually building up the speed without compromising accuracy.

And, you must always revisit those movements slowly and carefully, lest other things creep up, or lest you rob yourself of the opportunity for further refinement.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Fighting should be like your shirt is catching on fire. In some systems such as the long fist and the Shuai-Chiao (Chinese wrestling), the full speed training is required even for the new students on day one. When you spin and you feel that your eye balls are going to fly out of your eye sockets, you then understand what "speed" means.

Which one is better?

1. Do fast but not 100% correct.
2. Do slow but 100% correct.

I prefer the 1st than the 2nd. IMO, the best product is not the product that has 0 defect and expensive. The best product is the product that has less defect but affordable.

If you

- have speed, even your technique is not perfect, it may still work.
- don't have speed, even your technique is perfect, it may still not work.


 
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Gnarlie

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As a long time guitarist who learned to play fast by playing slow, eliminating unwanted inefficient movement and gradually increasing the speed of the metronome over the course of a year or two, I am a big believer in the need for slow.

Starting with fast and never slowing down makes sloppy and inefficient movement that wastes energy and limits the upper speed limit significantly. Starting slow and working progressively faster always eliminating unnecessary motion and staying relaxed leads to being faster than people who don't train that way.

It takes a special kind of honesty with yourself and patience that most people just don't have.

It's easier just to cover up poor technique with speed or muscle it. But true speed is both relaxed and economical, a mix that can only be developed by starting slow.
 

Gnarlie

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The reason you are able to rip your shirt off quickly is because you have practiced it slowly once a day for your entire life. Your movement has become progressively more economical over that time and when you want to do it quickly you can.

This is not the case with new movements. They have to be drilled in slow working up to fast, otherwise they end up hectic but tense and slow.
 

Danny T

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Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Overwhelm with smoothness.

When first learning new material I find going slow for several reps is a much quicker learning method for most. Then increase the speed. After having good speed slow down again and use it vs ever increasing resistance. Increase the speed as well as the resistance.

I have utilized both methods of slow and fast. Both work depending on what one is learning and how much time is allotted for learning and to what level of skill one is attempting to achieve.
 

Tgace

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You need to go as fast as you can smoothly execute....

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 

Orange Lightning

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I'm sure this is directed at me as I just posted this last night:

To learn how to kick fast, kick slow.
If you always practice fast, it is easy to overlook flaws in your technique, plus movements tend to be kind of jerky and tense.
By practicing slowly you will develop good technique and a smoothness to your movement that will translate into speed.


Try this experiment. Kick high and fast, say face height.....now do the exact same kick, only this time s l o w l y.
Much tougher isn't it? The first time you are using muscle plus momentum, while the second time you are training the muscles used in kicking without the aid of momentum.


The person who asked this was obviously a beginner. And my advice to him was the same I would give to any beginner, or anyone learning something new.
And that advice is: "Don't worry about going fast...learn the technique, go slowly, study it, become smooth with it. If you do this, then the movement naturally becomes faster as it becomes more efficient.

XD
I was the person everybody. Cracks me up a little though. I'm not a beginner at all. (I'm I that bad at expressing my questions? xD) I was just trying to pick up concepts about training that I haven't thought of or been exposed to. Particularly with kicking, because I feel that I could kick a lot faster. Compared to most other people, I kick decently, but not particularly well. I can kick hard, but always gracefully. Good enough to work, but it could be a lot better. It's more so a problem with me left leg. It can be easy to see coming or I don't get to the kick fast enough. So I was curious about what other people's training methods might be. I actually do this already. But before the thread, it never occurred to be to do it on the bag. I do think it well help me get rid of habits that slow me down. It's not something I would do all the time either.

It is true though. It can be harder to quick without the momentum you have from lifting your foot off the ground. It's harder, for me at least, to reach face height without it. Lately I've been making a routine out of lifting my leg up and kicking the bag at different heights in different ways just to strengthen the muscles that bring up my leg and hold it up, as well as get better at kicking without so much momentum. I do think this will help me kick with momentum too. I've also been doing bag sessions with kicks only to improve...obvious things. :p I would also note that the comment referred to kicks specifically. It doesn't help much with other stuff unless you're working out kinks in technique.
Also, I think it can be handy to help work out combinations and realize when you're open. "What can I do from here? What's wrong with what I'm doing here?"
 

Transk53

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I keep seeing people post about how going slow helps your technique. It doesn't. The thing that helps about going slow is that other people can see what you are doing, and correct you. That is it! :)

Why bother posting then. Doubt you needed a lot of correction :)
 

Transk53

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XD
I was the person everybody. Cracks me up a little though. I'm not a beginner at all. (I'm I that bad at expressing my questions? xD) I was just trying to pick up concepts about training that I haven't thought of or been exposed to. Particularly with kicking, because I feel that I could kick a lot faster. Compared to most other people, I kick decently, but not particularly well. I can kick hard, but always gracefully. Good enough to work, but it could be a lot better. It's more so a problem with me left leg. It can be easy to see coming or I don't get to the kick fast enough. So I was curious about what other people's training methods might be. I actually do this already. But before the thread, it never occurred to be to do it on the bag. I do think it well help me get rid of habits that slow me down. It's not something I would do all the time either.

It is true though. It can be harder to quick without the momentum you have from lifting your foot off the ground. It's harder, for me at least, to reach face height without it. Lately I've been making a routine out of lifting my leg up and kicking the bag at different heights in different ways just to strengthen the muscles that bring up my leg and hold it up, as well as get better at kicking without so much momentum. I do think this will help me kick with momentum too. I've also been doing bag sessions with kicks only to improve...obvious things. :p I would also note that the comment referred to kicks specifically. It doesn't help much with other stuff unless you're working out kinks in technique.
Also, I think it can be handy to help work out combinations and realize when you're open. "What can I do from here? What's wrong with what I'm doing here?"


Nothing at all. If you are after a critique, try members in motion :) Everybody is open at some point. You cannot mitigate that, you just learn to take advantage :)
 

Orange Lightning

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Nothing at all. If you are after a critique, try members in motion :) Everybody is open at some point. You cannot mitigate that, you just learn to take advantage :)
I might. One of these days. I doubt it will be anytime soon though. I'm a little out of practice. A hard winter and college life have slowed me down quite a bit.
 
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