The Root and Consequences of Riot

[Sukerkin]

I stumbled across this on the BBC:

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[TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14487982[/TD]
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I don't have time to delineate my response to it at present (Net Nannie about to shut me out of the Web) but I think this artiicle touches on some of the major issues quite well.

 

[Shuto]

I've been struggling to understand these riots. Materialism just doesn't adequately explain it IMO. It looks more like a morals thing to me.

This link uses the term "feral children" and that has a ring of truth to it from where I sit. But where I sit is in North America so I could easily be mistaken.

 

[billc]

I'll make a suggestion, when you constantly, through the media and politicians, tell people that the reason they have less is because business owners and the wealthy are greedy and won't share and that they came by their wealth unfairly exploiting the poor and sick, and then you throw in all the other social pathologies, could you expect anything less during the riots. The rich got rich by stealing, why shouldn the rioters do anything less, since that is the way they are told the system works . That is apparently the only way weatlh is created so, why not take what you want when the opportunity presents itself. When what one has is removed from the process of aquiring it because of welfare programs that create the social pathologies and children are raised by children who were raised by children, and no mature adult influence is role modeled, then barbaric behavior can only be expected.

I edited the above to clarify something.

And now I submit the commentary of the lovely and talented Ann Coulter:

http://www.anncoulter.com/

I would also suggest that the desire for material things isn't the problem. Destroying the concept that you have to earn what you have is the problem. The media, by targeting the rich, and yet not explaining how the rich and the community business owners have what they have is the problem. People see a Bill Gates, with his wealth, but they don't see all the work, in the creative process, the mangagemet of personel, the agonizing over the decisions big and small, and assume the wealth appeared magically. The same applies to the small business owners in the areas of the riots. Attack a Bill Gates, and that criticism splashes onto the guy who owns the business in the neibhorhood. The risk the small business owner takes, the extraoridinary long hours, the paper work, the work that goes into the business to get the wealth is not seen, so it is easy to think that wealth appears magically.

 

[Makalakumu]

Every culture is rebelling in its own way against the looting of the big banks. In Britain, and probably soon in the US, we've got an upper class that loots the economy in order to get rich and faces no consequences. In the lower classes, we've addicted them to handouts and then suddenly devalued those handouts to the point where people are living in squalor with currency that is worse less day after day. When the system breaks down, the poor are only going to act in the entitled, materialistic, looting ways that the upper class taught them.

London is the little bolthole for all of the financial terrorists in the world. For example the bankers from Iceland move their in order to escape prosecution, the law apparently protects them. Therefore, all of the oligarchs seem to flock there when trouble comes. It's the looting capitol of the world! Is it any wonder why other dispossessed would simply follow suit?

Also, remember that this is only a small fraction of the chaos inflicted by the countries armed forces on other people all around the world. It's just a little taste of the chaos that people are experiencing everyday. When wars are put on the credit card of the future and austerity is blasted into the entitled now, the war will always come home.

It's on our (the US) doorstep now, I'm afraid. We're going to learn the hard way as well.

We reap what we sow.

 

[Shuto]

How does robbing some struggling storefront owner and random burning of property equate to getting even with bankers? I don't see the connection.

 

[Sukerkin]

At the risk of making the thread a little less serious than I intended ... ewww, I actually agreed with something Ms Coulter said :lol:.

For the benefit (no pun intended) of our Transatlantic cousins, most of what she wrote is the usual ill-informed diatribe that only vaguely connects with the real world but some things I concur with her on:

I quote her: "A few well-placed rifle rounds, and the rioting would end in an instant."

Aye, I quite agree. That's why I should never be allowed anywhere near the reins of power, for I would do such things as rock a pair of APC's up to either end of a street full of thieves (I will not give them the dignity of the title of "rioter") and open fire. People like me, who reach for extreme measures when reasonable ones fail, made the Peterloo Massacre happen. More sensibly, or at least less indiscriminately, I would certainly be in favour of declaring martial law and shooting looters on sight.

Ms Coulter again: "A half-century of berating themselves for the crime of being British has left them morally defenseless." and "This is how civilizations die."

I am afraid so - the BNP and EDL really don't help matters in that regard. We need to have more pride in ourselves and what we achieved in the world and what we may yet achieve. The simple solution is to draft these multi-generational layabouts into the military. We once conquered much of the globe with an army of criminals and the press-ganged ... maybe we should try again?

 

[Makalakumu]

How does robbing some struggling storefront owner and random burning of property equate to getting even with bankers? I don't see the connection.

It's not getting even. It's no revolution. The people are just following the predominant theme in the culture. Looting.

As far as rebellion is concerned, think of it like this, the white shoe boys say, "no stealing" to all the underclasses and then go and steal everything in sight. At some point, those people are going to rebel and just go take what they want because that's what the so called "leaders" are doing.

It's wrong and the justification that "well if they can do it...", doesn't make it right, but that's in in a nutshell, IMO.

Looting is the underlying impulse of all Empires.

 

[Jenna]

It is a highly complex issue with many contributing factors.

If I were to put in my facile understanding of that complex situation I think the root of the issue is that there is simply too much pandering to those that contribute nothing to the economy. Once people are brought up as second and third generation of non-working benefit claimants, they have been given so much gratis that they attach little value to anything they are given, thus it is nothing to them to destroy what has taken you and I a long time to create and thus it is nothing to them to take items from stores which are themselves the products of someone else's hard work and effort.

I think there are too many cardigan-wearing middle-aged women as I see them that defend those "poor unfortunates" having to (as if they have no other choice) live off government benefits because there are no jobs. I say there are ALWAYS jobs if you are prepared to do them. It is unfortunately a case of why bother working when I get paid more to sit on my *** and do nothing. I think what is needed is a very gradual withdrawing of the subsidy for society's non-contributors.

All I know is that this is not purely a problem of young people having no respect. I work in our local college with young men that are determined to get work and prove their worth to themselves and the recent rioting here appals them as much as it does any of my acquaintances here. I think this is a problem of having given too much to people that in no way deserve it. Worklessness has been encouraged for years while hard work has been in so many ways penalised.

 

[Big Don]

A holes, when not held in check by the threat of violence, will behave as a holes.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

When you tell people that if they work hard and apply themselves, they will succeed, you breed such problems.

Not all who work hard succeed. Not all who succeed did so by working hard. People eventually figure this out. It makes some of them feel they've been made victims.

We have lived (in the USA) under a generation who felt that life, if not fair, ought to be made fair somehow, by law if necessary. And by stating that life could, should, and would be made fair, we have bred a generation who believe they are entitled to success in exchange for their hard work.

Life is not fair. It is short, brutish, and painful. Some enjoy rewards out of all scope of what they have earned, and others never enjoy the fruits of their own labors.

All any decent society can promise is to try to make sure everyone has an even chance, that no one be held back by the act of another. What life and chance hands them, that's out of mankind's control.

In the UK, perhaps even more so than in the US, it appears you have a generation raised to adulthood who have been told that they have been unfairly oppressed and deprived of the fruits of their labor.

If I felt that I had been robbed of my promised due, I might riot too.

But they have been told wrong. They haven't been robbed, and they're criminals the moment they put on the mask and begin burning shops and looting stores.

I pity them to some extent, because they've been lied to by certain political groups who promised them a better outcome in exchange for votes, but that doesn't matter now.

Arrest them, prosecute them, and if they are found guilty of rioting and looting, shoot them dead. They are a cancer upon society, and no society can coexist with a cancer eating at it.

 

[Tez3]

I think you have to look deeper at the cause of these riots, if you look at those arrested for rioting you ill see there are a lot of white collar workers as well as teachers, solicitors, plumbers, mechanics, students and other workers. On the other hand half of those arrested in London were under 18. More than anything else, it is the allure of violence that attracts people, coupled with gaining material goods it is irrestiable for some.
The football 'firms' who are known worldwide for their violence plan their assaults and are most made up of white collar 'respectable' guys who look at their weekend fights as much as the rest of us do our hobbies. There was a great deal of that in these riots.
Another thing to note is that is isn't by any means a racial riot, people of all types were looting, an Orthodox Jewish lad was seen running away from a shop with goods in his hands. White, brown and black faces, male and female are posted up for people to dob in. A heart broken Muslim father mouning his son killed defending their business appealed on the television for peace and an end to the violence. In Southall London the Sikhs were out in force with their neighbours again of all colours, defending their property, pity the looters that tried there!.
This is no rebellion against anything, the people weren't rising protesting against poverty, this is criminal behavior by people who thought they could take what they wanted, destroy what they wanted in an orgy of destruction. Now they are being rounded up and being made to account for their actions, some are already spending their first nights behind bars. These aren't people to feel sorry for, many are in work, many in college and university, some are drug dealers and gangs, others just yobs, one is the daughter of a millionaire, no one in any of these riots was there because they thought they were against the banks, the government etc they were there because they enjoyed the violence and they wanted to loot the shops.
One the other hands communities have come together to defend themselves and their properties, united by a common enemy. Shops in Manchester are putting up signs saying 'As seen on TV, open as usual'. In these riots we've sen the best and worst of our people.

I think what may have shocked non Brits is that they think of us still as the stiff upper lip types and to see rioting like this is a shock lol, but I have to say there is always an undercurrent in the British of violence, the fact we haven't had riots for a while makes people forget that we can have these outbursts.

And then there's the jokes, these started as soon as the riots did. They are Brit jokes though!

They had a riot in Middlesborough but it took three days to notice.
They found an arms cache behind the library in Newcastle, everyone was shocked, They didn't know they had a library.
There were a whole load of people out in hoodies and pajamas the other day in Middleborough, it wasn't a riot, it was Giro day.

Sukerkin will get them!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Primary-school-worker-postman-dad-boy-11.html

 

[WC_lun]

The reasons for populace frustrations are many and complex. I don't think it is entirely people with entitlement complexes and more than it is frustration with the robber barons of financial institutions. Yes, these things are part of the issue, but not its entirety. I can sympathyze with those in the populace that are frustrated at the unfairness of some of what is going on in the world. I can even support them doing something to make thier voices heard. However, those who are rioting and looting are just people who are using this as an excuse to behave in ways they know society does not approve of. It is an excuse for people who have no compassion for other people or thier property to behave like douchebags. They aren't voicing thier outrage or frustration, they are trying to get something for nothing at the expense of thier nieghbors or sowing violence and chaos...again at the expense of thier nieghbors. While I can't agree with shooting them, I can see arresting thier butts and throwing them jail for long stretches of time.

 

[Tez3]

Posted by my friend Rachel on Facebook.
"Just for Pip: Multicultural Britain: Jamaican grannies dressing down criminals mid riot, Muslims and Jews working together to protect homes and livelihoods, kurds setting examples in good citizenship, Sikhs protecting the streets and buildings of all faiths, everyone turning out to clean the streets. I love the UNITED Kingdom. Repost if you do too."

this is Pip..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pixel-eight/6024429000/

 

[WC_lun]

Very cool.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Posted by my friend Rachel on Facebook.
"Just for Pip: Multicultural Britain: Jamaican grannies dressing down criminals mid riot, Muslims and Jews working together to protect homes and livelihoods, kurds setting examples in good citizenship, Sikhs protecting the streets and buildings of all faiths, everyone turning out to clean the streets. I love the UNITED Kingdom. Repost if you do too."

this is Pip..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pixel-eight/6024429000/

Sadly, I have a lot of UK friends on Twitter who have been retweeting some vary racist statements. I was a bit shocked to find that the UK has as many racists as the USA in some sense. I honestly didn't know.

 

[Tez3]

For those who think Muslims are about violence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14481061


My heart goes out to this man of whom was said by the police that he did more to calm the riots than the police could. My thoughts and prayers are with him and the familes of the others killed.

 

[Sukerkin]

While I can't agree with shooting them, I can see arresting thier butts and throwing them jail for long stretches of time.

I have to confess I was exaggerating for effect ... but not by very much and I really would be perfectly okay with the martial law part (for a pre-defined period at least) .

 

[Sukerkin]

A holes, when not held in check by the threat of violence, will behave as a holes.

There is an awful lot of truth in that :nods:. Whilst we might not like to talk about it much, 'fear' of consequences has a role to play in any social order.

 

[billc]

Racism is universal, it is part of the human condition and not confined to one race or country. Some people will find some thing to dislike other people for. If you flipped things over and changed percentages of races in positions of majority, those races would be as racist as the races we have now. Even in a highly homogeous society like Japan, they find groups to discriminate against.

 

[Sukerkin]

An article from the BBC that starts to look into the possible causal factors in these vile disturbances of the peace:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14483149