The most "hybrid" Karate style?

[Mr. President]

I've been told that of all Karate schools and systems, Goju Ryu is the most hybrid style, i.e involves more grappling in its curriculum then all other Karate styles. It's also said that this style has never abandoned its martial roots in favor of sport.

Is that true?

 

[arnisador]

Wado-ryu would be another contender on those grounds, I think.

 

[twendkata71]

If you are talking about Okinawan styles, then yes, Goju ryu would be considered a hybrid. so would Uechi ryu.
As far as Japanese styles go, shito ryu, Kyokushin kai(and its offshoots), Koei kan and Wado ryu would be considered hybrids.
Shito ryu is a mixture of two or three styles(Naha te, Shuri te and some Ryuei ryu influences). Kyokushin kai is a mixture of Goju ryu, shotokan, and some Muy Thai. Koei Kan is a mixture of Naha te and Shuri te, as well as some Chinese influences.
As far as Goju ryu staying with the Martial as opposed to sport, Okinawan Goju ryu is that way, but the Japanese Goju Ryu or (Goju Kai) is heavy into the sport.

 

[drop bear]

I will throw Kudo into the ring for that honour.
http://www.kudoaustralia.com
http://www.daidojuku.com/eng/about/index.html

 

[arnisador]

Goju is truly a hybrid of multiple styles, but Uechi is more an Okinawan interpretation of a Chinese style than a hybrid of styles per se.

 

[K-man]

I've been told that of all Karate schools and systems, Goju Ryu is the most hybrid style, i.e involves more grappling in its curriculum then all other Karate styles. It's also said that this style has never abandoned its martial roots in favor of sport.

Is that true?

What do you mean by hybrid style? If you go back to the early 1900s there were basically three styles of karate, Naha-te, Shuri-te and Tomari-te. These were all similar and the students often trained in more than one place. In terms of 'hybrid' they all combined the Okinawan Tegumi or wrestling with the style of Kung fu that had been brought back from the Fujian province in China. So yes, these systems all included grappling. Pangainoon (Uechi Ryu) was different in that Kanbun Uechi trained in China and then opened a school in China before returned to Okinawa with no intention of teaching his art there. When he did start teaching, it was the Chinese art he taught, not the same as the Okinawan 'hybrids'. So although Uechi Ryu contained the grappling elements, technically it is probably the purist form of karate as it was taught in Okinawa the same as it had been taught in China.

The karate that was taught in the schools and was in turn introduced to the schools and universities in Japan was a much simplified form of karate that in the main no longer contained the grappling elements. It emphasised the kicks and punches and morphed into more of a sport than its Okinawan root styles.

Now from the question above I might suggest that 'hybrid' is in fact being used as a synonym of 'complete'. If that is in fact what is meant then certainly Okinawan Goju is true to its roots, does contain all the grappling etc and has not evolved into a sporting style.

As to the most hybrid style of karate. Well I would have to nominate Wado Ryu. Hironori Otsuka merged Shindo Yoshin-ryu with Shotokan karate to form what is in fact very similar to the karate that was around in the first place.

If you step slightly outside of karate as such to find hybrids then systems like Krav Maga and Systema really are hybrids mixing karate with Boxing, Muay Thai, Aikido, BJJ, Judo etc. In a recent thread someone posted a video of Kajukenbo, something I had not seen before. It originated in Hawaii and the name reflects its roots. Karate, Jujutsu, Kenpo and Boxing. It also has elements of Escrima.
:asian:

 

[Grenadier]

Schools are constantly adapting, changing, etc. I used to train in a system that was more of a Wado-Ryu / Shotokan hybrid, where the founder had re-infused much of the Shotokan Karate with the Wado Ryu Karate that he learned from Ohtsuka Shihan. The result was that he had built up quite a system in the Hawaii area, and the only thing that had slowed him down was his two heart attacks.

I can't argue with the results. The system has produced many a fine Karate-Ka, both in terms of teaching, as well as competition.


Some systems might try to do too much with other methods, which essentially makes them jacks of all trades, while being masters of none. Whether or not this helps further their goals, depends on what those particular goals are. For example, if someone is trying to make a system that can thrive in MMA competition, then such an approach could very well be optimal, where you might combine fundamentals of boxing with wrestling, or maybe Muai Thai with Ju Jutsu (or something similar). Those methods can help prepare someone to enter the MMA ring a lot faster than someone who trained in, say, one traditional style.

On the other hand, if someone wanted to gain a deep understanding of a particular system, then that approach would be counterproductive to that kind of goal.

 

[twendkata71]

I would add that Kajukenbo is not really a karate style, but a hybrid martial art. It uses Karate(Tangsoodo actually) and Kenpo as its base, but is MMA style to the core. A mixture of Karate(Tangsoo do), Jujitsu/Judo, Kenpo, American boxing and Chinese Gung fu. The Bo for boxing in Kajukenbo is meant to represent Chinese boxing more than western boxing. Even though it has some practitioners competing is Sport karate tournaments, it was designed for street confrontations not sport. This is just my thoughts on the martial art style from what I have read and from talking to some of the Kajukenbo stylists.

 

[twendkata71]

It memory serves me correctly. Ohtsuka also crosstrained with Motobu and Konishi, picking up elements of their particular styles.
Konishi trained with several masters-Motobu,Mabuni,Funakoshi and learned some of Ohtsuka's Jujitsu style. I think that Ohtsuka had the most training in karate with Funakoshi though and it is obvious (in the Wado ryu kata) that he learned the early vesion of what Shotokan was, not what Shotokan is today.

What do you mean by hybrid style? If you go back to the early 1900s there were basically three styles of karate, Naha-te, Shuri-te and Tomari-te. These were all similar and the students often trained in more than one place. In terms of 'hybrid' they all combined the Okinawan Tegumi or wrestling with the style of Kung fu that had been brought back from the Fujian province in China. So yes, these systems all included grappling. Pangainoon (Uechi Ryu) was different in that Kanbun Uechi trained in China and then opened a school in China before returned to Okinawa with no intention of teaching his art there. When he did start teaching, it was the Chinese art he taught, not the same as the Okinawan 'hybrids'. So although Uechi Ryu contained the grappling elements, technically it is probably the purist form of karate as it was taught in Okinawa the same as it had been taught in China.

The karate that was taught in the schools and was in turn introduced to the schools and universities in Japan was a much simplified form of karate that in the main no longer contained the grappling elements. It emphasised the kicks and punches and morphed into more of a sport than its Okinawan root styles.

Now from the question above I might suggest that 'hybrid' is in fact being used as a synonym of 'complete'. If that is in fact what is meant then certainly Okinawan Goju is true to its roots, does contain all the grappling etc and has not evolved into a sporting style.

As to the most hybrid style of karate. Well I would have to nominate Wado Ryu. Hironori Otsuka merged Shindo Yoshin-ryu with Shotokan karate to form what is in fact very similar to the karate that was around in the first place.

If you step slightly outside of karate as such to find hybrids then systems like Krav Maga and Systema really are hybrids mixing karate with Boxing, Muay Thai, Aikido, BJJ, Judo etc. In a recent thread someone posted a video of Kajukenbo, something I had not seen before. It originated in Hawaii and the name reflects its roots. Karate, Jujutsu, Kenpo and Boxing. It also has elements of Escrima.
:asian:

 

[K-man]

I would add that Kajukenbo is not really a karate style, but a hybrid martial art. It uses Karate(Tangsoodo actually) and Kenpo as its base, but is MMA style to the core. A mixture of Karate(Tangsoo do), Jujitsu/Judo, Kenpo, American boxing and Chinese Gung fu. The Bo for boxing in Kajukenbo is meant to represent Chinese boxing more than western boxing. Even though it has some practitioners competing is Sport karate tournaments, it was designed for street confrontations not sport. This is just my thoughts on the martial art style from what I have read and from talking to some of the Kajukenbo stylists.

That's why I wrote "If you step slightly outside of karate as such to find hybrids, then systems like Krav Maga and Systema really are hybrids mixing karate with Boxing, Muay Thai, Aikido, BJJ, Judo etc." Once you mix martial arts together you no longer have the base style. You simply have Mixed Martial Arts or MMA. Wado Ryu is a hybrid that mixed two martial arts to come back to a complete karate system. Some hybrids, like Krav, go on to become a system in their own right, some just call themselves MMA.
:asian: