The meaning in forms

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Mantis Leg

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I've been involved in the MA for a number of years and I've studied and seen many different styles in this time. My understanding of forms is that they teach the techniques of the style in a systemized format. In other words they teach you to fight. Obviously you need a partner to really learn fighting, but I feel forms give you the tools.
When I go to tournaments I see lots of craziness in the forms department. Last year I saw a high ranking kung fu practicioner do a monkey form that included lots of acrobatics but no fight. Another stylist did a beautiful tiger form with a wonderful flow. Monkey man took first. Frankly I was shocked and disappointed.
This year I saw white belts doing forms that are traditionally taught at a much higher rank. From what I saw these newbies didn't hit the rythm and timing that make an advanced form what it is. Sure they got trophies, but is that what we study for? It's my feeling that MA should feed the soul and not the ego.
How do you all out there feel about forms? Am I just being cranky?

:soapbox:




mantis
 

tshadowchaser

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Monkey forms (from what i've seen ) cary much acting like a monkey with the fighting techniques highly hidden. Many of them, i belive, are simple to teach body posistioning and balance, others are diffenatly fighting moves, and some simply are for show.
Teaching lower ranked (beginner) students a higher (brown-black) form would seem to be almost counter productive to the learnig of the student. However maybe it was done to enhance a certian attribute of the students or learned in a seminar. To teach it the to white belt just so he/she can win a trophy is just crap (piled higher and deeper)
IMHO
Shadow
 
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Shinzu

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forms should work in a pattern that would benifit the student.

there are certain techniques in certain forms that lower ranking students would not understand..nor should they at their level.

if a student shows that he has worked hard to "perfect" his form technique. perhaps his instructor could invite him to learn the next highest or a "special" form not generally taught to the class.

but as for teaching students beyond their knowledge...not a good thing. when they are ready to learn they will, and the skill of the form will show.
 

tshadowchaser

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How about the student you see doing a form you know you have not shown them. One that is for the next rank or maybe a black belt form that they have gotten on tape and practiced at home till they thought they could impress you(or the instructor) with by suddenly doing it or asking about a certian move in it (kind of a back door way of getting permission to do it)
I tend to get quitely angry and ask where they learned the form. They never do get the answer nor are they alowed to do the form utill they know it correctly, which is ver hard since no one is going to show it to them after i say not to.:asian:
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arnisador

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Originally posted by tshadowchaser

How about the student you see doing a form you know you have not shown them. One that is for the next rank or maybe a black belt form that they have gotten on tape and practiced at home

Heh. I was that student once (I was 15 at the time, doing naihanchi from a book).

Are there forms in Sikaran then? If so what are they like compared to say karate forms?
 

tshadowchaser

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Yes Sikaran has forms.
The ones in the system I teach start with Oakinawan forms (Teke, Sanchin,etc) these are from my instructors first sytem of study.
The Sikaran forms themsleves range from the basic "I"formation beginner forms to hard powerful tension and power forms involveing mostly hands, next we have some that are mainly feet (not alot of defence in these but great for teaching kicks), then we have some flowing graceful ones that look very Chinese. I guess because of the influences of so many groups in the islands over the centurys a little of everything became the system that is known today. Yes the nerve strikes are in the forms you just have to know what you are seeing (unless you study and are told what the moves are)
<Talk about a run on sentence>
Shadow
 
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Shinzu

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anyway you slice it, i feel it is best for students to progress to the next form according to the instructors format.

most students will respect your decision once you have made it clear why the system is developed this way.

although different schools do mix up the forms and might teach one before the other. this may be where and how they learn a form that you thought was not for their rank yet.
 

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