The Martial Artist

[Zero]

It can be interesting to gauge from history and historical records what the view was of those that were actually engaged and surrounded by conflict and war and in which the hand to hand fighting and/or weapons of our styles were actually used. Their view as to the practice of martial arts can be illuminating and help, to some degree, put these things into context.

For example, take certain extracts from the “Hagakure” (the Book of the Samurai), I quote from an English translation:


Quote: “The saying, “The arts aid the body,” is for samurai of other regions. For samurai of the Nabeshima clan the arts bring ruin to the body. In all cases, the person who practices an art is an artist, not a samurai, and one should have the intention of being called a samurai.

When one has the conviction that even the slightest artful ability is harmful to the samurai, all the arts become useful to him. One should understand this sort of thing.” Unquote.


This is quite profound and subtle, particularly the last sentence of the quote (at least for myself). This is not saying the samurai are not highly skilled and adept warriors that have not honed their skill to the highest level. But it is clearly differentiating between an “artist” and a samurai. For the most part those of us on MT and most people the world over that do a MA, including those that compete in tournaments and UFC at the highest level, are simply “artists”. Those few that use their martial skills on the battlefield (specific war/conflict zone these days as “battlefield” is for the most part an anachronism) might be akin to a samurai or an actual warrior.

On that basis we are all simply “artists” here. Somewhat like a ballet dancer.

 

[Mephisto]

It can be interesting to gauge from history and historical records what the view was of those that were actually engaged and surrounded by conflict and war and in which the hand to hand fighting and/or weapons of our styles were actually used. Their view as to the practice of martial arts can be illuminating and help, to some degree, put these things into context.

For example, take certain extracts from the “Hagakure” (the Book of the Samurai), I quote from an English translation:


Quote: “The saying, “The arts aid the body,” is for samurai of other regions. For samurai of the Nabeshima clan the arts bring ruin to the body. In all cases, the person who practices an art is an artist, not a samurai, and one should have the intention of being called a samurai.

When one has the conviction that even the slightest artful ability is harmful to the samurai, all the arts become useful to him. One should understand this sort of thing.” Unquote.


This is quite profound and subtle, particularly the last sentence of the quote (at least for myself). This is not saying the samurai are not highly skilled and adept warriors that have not honed their skill to the highest level. But it is clearly differentiating between an “artist” and a samurai. For the most part those of us on MT and most people the world over that do a MA, including those that compete in tournaments and UFC at the highest level, are simply “artists”. Those few that use their martial skills on the battlefield (specific war/conflict zone these days as “battlefield” is for the most part an anachronism) might be akin to a samurai or an actual warrior.

On that basis we are all simply “artists” here. Somewhat like a ballet dancer.

Interesting thoughts. I largely agree with you. I think the battlefield martial artist is all but gone. I'm not military but my understanding is that hand to hand is not a modern emphasis and minimal time is spent there as modern warfare is all about guns. I suppose some special forces have a little more knowledge of hand to hand but I'm curious how much they even emphasis it during training.

The martial sport arena is the closest thing we have to the battlefield in modern times for all but those in military and perhaps Leos. Those that perpetuate the martial arts with little or no fighting experience are artists in every sense of the word more than they are martialists(if that's a word ). That's why I'm a strong advocate of sports training in martial arts, most people are not military or Leo, most people don't regularly get into fights so most people that don't fight or spar have no knowedge of how to apply their art. Sport doesn't have to be the focus of an MA but it should be a component. If your art has strikes you should be able to apply them against other strikers, you should be able to control a resisting person with strikes. Not everyone has to spar or fight, but instructors should. Otherwise we are just relegating ourselves to dancing and art rather than the martial component.

 

[Drose427]

Interesting thoughts. I largely agree with you. I think the battlefield martial artist is all but gone. I'm not military but my understanding is that hand to hand is not a modern emphasis and minimal time is spent there as modern warfare is all about guns. I suppose some special forces have a little more knowledge of hand to hand but I'm curious how much they even emphasis it during training.

The martial sport arena is the closest thing we have to the battlefield in modern times for all but those in military and perhaps Leos. Those that perpetuate the martial arts with little or no fighting experience are artists in every sense of the word more than they are martialists(if that's a word ). That's why I'm a strong advocate of sports training in martial arts, most people are not military or Leo, most people don't regularly get into fights so most people that don't fight or spar have no knowedge of how to apply their art. Sport doesn't have to be the focus of an MA but it should be a component. If your art has strikes you should be able to apply them against other strikers, you should be able to control a resisting person with strikes. Not everyone has to spar or fight, but instructors should. Otherwise we are just relegating ourselves to dancing and art rather than the martial component.

According to my recently enlisted friends:

Marine corps: They've all said a lot of their hand to hand consisted of grappling, takedowns, and disarms. They got some kickboxing in there as well

Army/Airforce: Little more than boxing. Although, my airman friend who chose security learned far more grappling. But, he works on base and tends to be working witht he local PD when things like riots and protests happen, so it makes sense he'd get a little more training on restraining someone.

No navy friends

They all said the focus seemed to be on staying calm and forging the "kill or be killed" mentality. Which makes sense, plus you'd be hard pressed to find a soldier who isnt armed with something at all times.


I personally disagree that sports should be a major component. Sparring should be, not just within your style. I've always been thankful my instructors have encouraged us to seek outside knowledge. Theres little you could get at competition you couldnt get by regularly sparring in class or outside of class with new people. Plus, I've noticed many schools I've seen who regularly compete put their sparring focus into scoring as opposed sparring freely. It;s more than just sparring with the same people in your school, it creates this metagame where you start/stop doing things depending on the rules. I.E. A fellow I know from a sport karate school doesnt throw many punches, because when two people just start trading punches at tournaments the corner judges rarely call score because both parties are obviously scoring.

There are also many times where your instructor will make you do some sort of unorthodox sparring. Mine has made me 2 v 1, no punching, black belts can do take-downs, etc. Things you won't see at comps and things sports schools may not do because of their commitment to competing within a certain style tournament.

Now this is just my opinion based on my own observations. Obviously, it's up to instructors to decide whats best for their class and how to work their training around that. Competitions are fun and all, but I personally feel general and regular free-sparring is better.

 

[Cirdan]

Interesting quite, thanks Zero.

Actually I totally agree and have a similar attitude to training. I might enjoy the beautiful moves and have fun sparing, but at the core MA is indeed about bringing ruin to the body. Of course we hope we never have to use what we train to the full extent, but we should very much train to do just that- to the fullest ugly extent. In fact it is very easy to retreat into a sort of comfortable zone when training where you don`t really reflect all that much about causing all that harm and over time you loose your capability for agressive action.

Anyway this is just me rambling again.

 

[Steve]

It can be interesting to gauge from history and historical records what the view was of those that were actually engaged and surrounded by conflict and war and in which the hand to hand fighting and/or weapons of our styles were actually used. Their view as to the practice of martial arts can be illuminating and help, to some degree, put these things into context.

For example, take certain extracts from the “Hagakure” (the Book of the Samurai), I quote from an English translation:


Quote: “The saying, “The arts aid the body,” is for samurai of other regions. For samurai of the Nabeshima clan the arts bring ruin to the body. In all cases, the person who practices an art is an artist, not a samurai, and one should have the intention of being called a samurai.

When one has the conviction that even the slightest artful ability is harmful to the samurai, all the arts become useful to him. One should understand this sort of thing.” Unquote.


This is quite profound and subtle, particularly the last sentence of the quote (at least for myself). This is not saying the samurai are not highly skilled and adept warriors that have not honed their skill to the highest level. But it is clearly differentiating between an “artist” and a samurai. For the most part those of us on MT and most people the world over that do a MA, including those that compete in tournaments and UFC at the highest level, are simply “artists”. Those few that use their martial skills on the battlefield (specific war/conflict zone these days as “battlefield” is for the most part an anachronism) might be akin to a samurai or an actual warrior.

On that basis we are all simply “artists” here. Somewhat like a ballet dancer.

It's interesting, but I'm a little confused at your interpretation. Where in the quote does it suggest that the distinction between an artist and samurai is skill on the battlefield? I don't see it.

 

[Zero]

It's interesting, but I'm a little confused at your interpretation. Where in the quote does it suggest that the distinction between an artist and samurai is skill on the battlefield? I don't see it.

You're confused my friend quite simply because that was not my interpretation! : )

Neither my statements nor (as you rightly say) the quote talk about differences in battlefield skill (although battlefield intention and ability may very well be at the quote's core!). It is about the inherent difference and approach to things as a samurai (or warrior) and a martial artist. And, I think, about the very real danger to a samurai in adopting an artists approach.

At great risk of getting it wrong, I think some of the quote means: a samurai is simply about going onto the battlefield with the intention of killing the enemy, preferably as many as possible, for one's lord and without concern for one's own death. A martial artist goes about training - and life - in a completely different manner.

The "Arts bring ruin to the body" can be interpreted in at least two different ways. In carrying out the "art" one is destroying another's body or taking away a life and in the process possibly suffering the same oneself. Therefore practice in the art is to be avoided, there is no practice or play, there is simply the doing and the destruction that follows. As a crude analogy, someone who "practices" at geology (ie takes geology at uni) is simply practicing in such - but such a person is not a geologist.

Another interpretation is that in training or pursuing such things with the mind set of an "artist" one ruins oneself, as one loses the ability or mind set of a samurai, therefore leaving one to be destroyed and cut down in battle. And maybe even before the battle, where a warrior has put on the clothing of the artist, the samurai is already ruined.

 

[Cirdan]

I am not confused at all, tho I was responding to the quote itself (and my uundrstanding about what it conserns) rather than the rest of the post and my porly chosen words might have indicated otherwise.

I am off to the gym so not much time to elaborate. Suffice to say I prefer the last interpretation in your post tho I can certainly see the value of the others too. Knowing artful ability is harmful leaves you able to use the arts without suffering harm or limits to your own expression.

 

[Zero]

hey Cirdan, it was not you but Steve's quote I was responding to. You got it in one.
I am also drawn to the last interpretation. Enjoy your gym session! I did hams, core and guns earlier during lunch break, a killer session and am currently loading up on turkey and spinning the wheels at work.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hey Zero,

There are some real problems taking Hagakure as anything authoritative, or indicative of anything other than one persons (rather skewed and right-wing) views on what he personally believed a samurai to be about… let's see what we have here.

It can be interesting to gauge from history and historical records what the view was of those that were actually engaged and surrounded by conflict and war and in which the hand to hand fighting and/or weapons of our styles were actually used. Their view as to the practice of martial arts can be illuminating and help, to some degree, put these things into context.

For example, take certain extracts from the “Hagakure” (the Book of the Samurai), I quote from an English translation:

Okay, the first thing to realise is that Tsunetomo really wasn't "surrounded by conflict and war"… in fact, much of his views can be understood as the idealistic, romanticised yearnings of someone who lamented the fact that he was born to an age of peace, therefore never had the opportunity to fulfil what he felt the real role of a samurai was… he never saw battle, let alone war, and lived a largely beaurocratic life before retiring to become a monk in later life. I would also caution against labelling Hagakure as "the Book of the Samurai", as it isn't on a huge number of levels, despite that being used as a "subtitle" in a few cases (such as the William Scott Wilson version… there is one that names the book "Bushido: The Way of the Samurai", despite the fact that the term "bushido" never even appears in the text, and is a much later popularised term, and no reading of the text provides such phrasing. Honestly, the subtitle is more about marketing to an audience to give some clue as to the contents, rather than any kind of accurate assessment or correct title for the tome). The name actually translates as "Hidden in the Leaves", which has a few connotations, but probably the simplest being that you should read between the words (pages/leaves of the book) to get to the real intention and meaning… but it was really only Tsunetomo's take on his ideal of what a samurai was, and goes against the more popular and common thinkings of his contemporaries, such as in the quote you provide, and in other areas such as his criticism of the 47 Ronin and their actions (or at least, their timetable of action).

Quote: “The saying, “The arts aid the body,” is for samurai of other regions. For samurai of the Nabeshima clan the arts bring ruin to the body. In all cases, the person who practices an art is an artist, not a samurai, and one should have the intention of being called a samurai.

When one has the conviction that even the slightest artful ability is harmful to the samurai, all the arts become useful to him. One should understand this sort of thing.” Unquote.

Yeah, I know the passage… the most important thing to recognise is that Tsunetomo is giving his personal views on how he thinks other samurai are "doin' it wrong"… which doesn't have any bearing on anything other than Tsunetomo and his beliefs.

Out of interest, which translation are you using?

This is quite profound and subtle, particularly the last sentence of the quote (at least for myself).

Okay. I'm assuming you mean the second last sentence, yeah? The one about "When one has the conviction…", rather than "One should understand…"… unless you meant "In all cases…"?

This is not saying the samurai are not highly skilled and adept warriors that have not honed their skill to the highest level. But it is clearly differentiating between an “artist” and a samurai.

Hmm… no, it's actually not.

What Tsunetomo was saying was that a samurai should be concerned purely with the role of being a samurai… a retainer dedicated to serving his lord to the best of his ability… and should refrain from anything that might distract from that aim. In other words, all of the samurai's waking energy should be put to the effort of self improvement to better serve the lord (Daimyo) only… not for the betterment of the self… or towards improving in those areas that the lord might have need to make use of. To then dedicate time to anything that is not purely for that end is considered a detriment to your ability to serve… which is what "samurai" really means, when you get down to it.

To put it in context, the Sengoku Jidai (Warring States Period) of the mid-15th to beginning 17th Centuries was over for a number of decades, which had left the samurai looking for ways to continue to be relevant and of use. That lead a number of areas to focus on the development of culture, leading to the refinement of ikebana, haiku, cha no yu, and more. Wealthy samurai became patrons of the arts, and quite skilled in a number of areas themselves, with many samurai being leading artists in their own right (before Eiji Yoshikawa's novel, Musashi Miyamoto was more famous in Japan as a painter and calligrapher than a swordsman, for example). Against this trend, Tsunetomo is saying that focusing on these other pursuits was done to the detriment of the real calling of a samurai, serving their lord… he was basically saying that you could either be dedicated to one thing or the other… and he preferred if samurai were dedicated to being a samurai. In a way, it was a form of saying "jack of all trades, master of none", as well as cautioning against putting your efforts into something of minimalist or no value to your role in the clan.

What needs to be made clear here, though, is that he is not discussing "arts" as in martial arts… nor is he necessarily discussing the idea of being a samurai as equating to being a skilled warrior. All he's saying is put your focus where it needs to be.

For the most part those of us on MT and most people the world over that do a MA, including those that compete in tournaments and UFC at the highest level, are simply “artists”.

Yeah, again, that's really nothing to do with what Tsunetomo was saying.

Basically what he was saying is that I, in his estimation, wouldn't be classed as having the intention of being a samurai, as I also have studied acting, play guitar and drums, write music (and occasionally other forms of expression), and study a range of areas that are not related to being better as serving a lord (or, in a modern context, being completely dedicated to my job and my boss). And, again, that view was his alone… other areas would emphasise a wider cultural viewpoint and exposure, as well as a wider cultural development and skill set.

Those few that use their martial skills on the battlefield (specific war/conflict zone these days as “battlefield” is for the most part an anachronism) might be akin to a samurai or an actual warrior.

Except that really isn't part of what Tsunetomo was saying either. There is no equating of usage of skills in battle as being what a samurai is (it was part of it, sure, and Tsunetomo was certainly guilty of romanticising such aspects), but the real, crucial thing is dedication to a single cause.

That's really the lesson of Hagakure that's "hidden among it's leaves"… dedication and devotion to what you're doing. The most famous quote from the book is in the beginning… "The way of the the bushi is found in death" (sometimes rendered as "the way of the warrior is in dying", or anything of that form). That has been taken time and time again as saying that the role of the samurai is to die nobly, honourably, willingly, to lay down their lives at a moment's notice, and to have no care for their own well being. While that's part of it, it's missing the real lesson there… the lesson of dedicating yourself completely. In Tsunetomo's time, and context, it was to the lord you were serving… but as you read through Hagakure in it's more complete form, you start to notice that the underlying current for much of the stories and lessons are about being committed to a decision, to an action, to an aim, and to see whatever you're doing through completely, regardless of hardship, difficulty, personal risk, or anything else. Only those that can dedicate themselves completely were worthy of the term "samurai", even if they had never seen battle (as in the case of Tsunetomo himself).

On that basis we are all simply “artists” here. Somewhat like a ballet dancer.

Nah, gonna disagree with you there as well… for one thing, using Tsunetomo's viewpoint, by being dedicated completely to being a ballet dancer, that's a lot closer to being a samurai in a modern context than many martial artists… of course, there's more to it than that… with the real emphasis being dedication to something (someone) other than yourself…

 

[Chris Parker]

Interesting quite, thanks Zero.

Actually I totally agree and have a similar attitude to training. I might enjoy the beautiful moves and have fun sparing, but at the core MA is indeed about bringing ruin to the body. Of course we hope we never have to use what we train to the full extent, but we should very much train to do just that- to the fullest ugly extent. In fact it is very easy to retreat into a sort of comfortable zone when training where you don`t really reflect all that much about causing all that harm and over time you loose your capability for agressive action.

Anyway this is just me rambling again.

Yeah… not what was meant at all, though… we'll cover it in a moment.

You're confused my friend quite simply because that was not my interpretation! : )

Neither my statements nor (as you rightly say) the quote talk about differences in battlefield skill (although battlefield intention and ability may very well be at the quote's core!). It is about the inherent difference and approach to things as a samurai (or warrior) and a martial artist. And, I think, about the very real danger to a samurai in adopting an artists approach.

Er… no. When Tsunetomo talks about "arts", he is not talking about martial arts… he's talking about poetry, flower arranging, Noh drama, shamisen playing… that kind of thing.

At great risk of getting it wrong, I think some of the quote means: a samurai is simply about going onto the battlefield with the intention of killing the enemy, preferably as many as possible, for one's lord and without concern for one's own death. A martial artist goes about training - and life - in a completely different manner.

Ha, okay… yeah, wrong.

Forget the idea of "martial arts vs being a samurai"… that's really nothing at all to do with the quote… and while being a samurai can be, in part, about cutting down the enemies of the Daimyo, that's only one part of what Tsunetomo's talking about…

The "Arts bring ruin to the body" can be interpreted in at least two different ways. In carrying out the "art" one is destroying another's body or taking away a life and in the process possibly suffering the same oneself. Therefore practice in the art is to be avoided, there is no practice or play, there is simply the doing and the destruction that follows. As a crude analogy, someone who "practices" at geology (ie takes geology at uni) is simply practicing in such - but such a person is not a geologist.

Okay… nope.

Another interpretation is that in training or pursuing such things with the mind set of an "artist" one ruins oneself, as one loses the ability or mind set of a samurai, therefore leaving one to be destroyed and cut down in battle. And maybe even before the battle, where a warrior has put on the clothing of the artist, the samurai is already ruined.

That's more along the right lines… but it's not about having an attitude of being an "artist" in your pursuit of your martial skills… it's about pursuing other arts besides those that help you act as a samurai.

 

[Tgace]

“You should not have a favourite weapon. To become over-familiar with one weapon is as much a fault as not knowing it sufficiently well.”

-M Musashi

 

[Tez3]

“You should not have a favourite weapon. To become over-familiar with one weapon is as much a fault as not knowing it sufficiently well.”

-M Musashi

Having a favourite though doesn't mean that you are overly familiar with it and practice with it more than the others, it just means that you like it better surely. So, not a good piece of advice really.

 

[Tgace]

To expand on this, here is a supporting passage from the Hagakure:

There are many people who, by being attached to a martial art and taking apprentices, believe that they have arrived at the full stature of a warrior. But it is a regrettable thing to put forth much effort and in the end become an “artist.” In artistic technique it is good to learn to the extent that you will not be lacking.

I think its pretty clear there that "art" refers to Martial Arts...

jack of all trades the things worth believing in

So I'm not sold on the argument that when we discuss the passage saying "arts bring ruin to the body", that we are necessarily talking about music, dance, poetry, flower arraignment, etc. We may be, but "art", "artist" are used to describe martial arts in other passages within the book. There is much lost in translation from the original Japanese.

 

[Tgace]

Having a favourite though doesn't mean that you are overly familiar with it and practice with it more than the others, it just means that you like it better surely. So, not a good piece of advice really.

That really depends on the interpretation from the original Japanese and how the authors intent was translated with the language.

I read it as...a Samurai/Warrior should be versatile in many weapons. If you are focusing on your swordsmanship too much you may not be putting in enough practice into your archery, horsemanship, etc..

 

[Tez3]

That really depends on the interpretation from the original Japanese and how the authors intent was translated with the language.

I read it as...a Samurai/Warrior should be versatile in many weapons. If you are focusing on your swordsmanship too much you may not be putting in enough practice into your archery, horsemanship, etc..

It's difficult isn't it to know what people mean when it has to be translated.

 

[Zero]

Yeah… not what was meant at all, though… we'll cover it in a moment.



Er… no. When Tsunetomo talks about "arts", he is not talking about martial arts… he's talking about poetry, flower arranging, Noh drama, shamisen playing… that kind of thing. .

You sod!! Couldn't you at least have agreed with one part of my blind ramblings? Just for "face" at least?
Seriously though, and for reasons as noted by TGace, I thought from context that T was in referring to "artists" meaning martial artists and not "artists" in general there.

I generally understand a whole bunch of the other stuff you state but for what it's worth am not convinced as yet on your statement as to this.

 

[Zero]

Hey Zero,

Out of interest, which translation are you using?
…

It's my own translation from copies of the original scrolls, I took Japanese all the way through uni and spent the following 5 years in tonsure at the monastery in Onsen.

Should I be reading your translation then?

 

[Zero]

Seriously though Chris, it's the William Scott Wilson translation and thanks for your views on the above.

 

[Chris Parker]

“You should not have a favourite weapon. To become over-familiar with one weapon is as much a fault as not knowing it sufficiently well.”

-M Musashi

Okay, cool… we've moved onto Musashi's Gorin no Sho. To be clear, this is quite removed from the Hagakure on a number of levels, and in a number of contexts, it should be noted.

Having a favourite though doesn't mean that you are overly familiar with it and practice with it more than the others, it just means that you like it better surely. So, not a good piece of advice really.

Well… yes and no. In a real sense, being overly fond of one weapon over another (or all others) will lead to practicing with it, and relying on it over the others as well… which is to be avoided. Some alternate translations of the same passage to compare and contrast:

You should not have a special fondness for a particular weapon, or anything else for that matter. Too much is the same as not enough. Without imitating anyone else, you should have as much weaponry as suits you. To entertain likes and dislikes is bad for both commanders and soldiers. Pragmatic thinking is essential.

You should not have a predilection for certain weapons. Putting too much emphasis on one weapon results in not having enough of the others. Weapons should be adapted to your personal qualities and be ones you can handle. It is useless to imitate others. For a general as for a soldier, it is negative to have marked preferences. You should examine this point well.

(From the Earth Book).

That really depends on the interpretation from the original Japanese and how the authors intent was translated with the language.

I read it as...a Samurai/Warrior should be versatile in many weapons. If you are focusing on your swordsmanship too much you may not be putting in enough practice into your archery, horsemanship, etc..

Well, the section itself is "Knowing the Advantage of Each Weapon in Strategy"… of course, it is emphasised in the text that swordsmanship itself is the study of strategy, however that particular passage deals with the strengths and best application of the wide variety of available tools. In a way, it's a way of saying "pick the right tool for the job", versus the idea of "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"…

It's difficult isn't it to know what people mean when it has to be translated.

Yeah… which is why it helps to understand the surrounding context of the text itself… literal translations don't give you everything…

To expand on this, here is a supporting passage from the Hagakure:

There are many people who, by being attached to a martial art and taking apprentices, believe that they have arrived at the full stature of a warrior. But it is a regrettable thing to put forth much effort and in the end become an “artist.” In artistic technique it is good to learn to the extent that you will not be lacking.

I think its pretty clear there that "art" refers to Martial Arts…

Hmm… yes and no, I feel… to be honest, I get the impression that Tsunetomo was making a rather distinct separation between martial arts (as he saw them in an idealistic form) and those who turned martial arts into more of an "art" than a pragmatic skill… hence the distinction between "(they) believe they have arrived at the full stature of a warrior" and "in the end become an 'artist'" (rather than a warrior, as they seem to intend or believe)… in other words, he's saying that what these people are doing is no longer really related to warriorship or what he classifies as martial arts (or skills, really).

jack of all trades the things worth believing in

Interesting blog post… and yeah, it's not an easy passage to get your head around, with the seeming contradictions and all…

So I'm not sold on the argument that when we discuss the passage saying "arts bring ruin to the body", that we are necessarily talking about music, dance, poetry, flower arraignment, etc. We may be, but "art", "artist" are used to describe martial arts in other passages within the book. There is much lost in translation from the original Japanese.

Yeah, I get where that confusion comes from… and you're right, it's not easy to see what's actually being said at times. The thing to remember is that the first part particularly was largely Tsunetomo's personal viewpoint (later sections were more stories about others), and was taken from a number of years of conversations with him. It wasn't a single, thought out text… which lends itself to potential contradictions and inconsistencies. Really, each small section (within each area of the book) need to be looked at as stand-alone passages as much as in the context of the entire book (or section of the book).

The next thing is that there has not been, to my knowledge, a complete version of even the first chapter ever translated or published… many stories and passages are largely re-tellings of others, or emphasising the same message, so each translation I've come across is listed as "From the First Chapter", rather than simply "The First Chapter"… which means that there are definitely omissions… what they are is another question, of course. Finally, when talking about translations from the original… there is no original. What we have to go from today are later editions, with the original being long lost.

That said, if we're going to look at what that passage ("The saying 'the arts aid the body'…") is meaning when it uses the term "arts", we need to look to the phrase itself, and what the saying was in reference to itself. It's not Tsunetomo's take on what an "art" was at this point… he was making a distinction between the common thinking in other areas, and his own belief on the samurai of his domain. And yes, the saying was in reference to the cultural benefits of what we'd call "art", including ikebana and poetry.

Of course, the next (common) passage then seems to contradict that one as well… by talking about the idea that, even when you write a letter of a single line, you should do it with the intent that he recipient will turn it into a hanging scroll… which seems to imply a focus on the artistry of calligraphy… but really is talking about doing the best you can at all times, no matter what you're doing… which, of course, matches with the real overall emphasis of the book, particularly the first chapter.

You sod!! Couldn't you at least have agreed with one part of my blind ramblings? Just for "face" at least?

Ha, nope!

Seriously though, and for reasons as noted by TGace, I thought from context that T was in referring to "artists" meaning martial artists and not "artists" in general there.

Well, it should be remembered that, at this point in time, the samurai were very much becoming the bastions of culture, with many focusing on learning the tea ceremony, or spending hours learning calligraphy… Tsunetomo was of the belief that this emphasis on other arts was weakening the samurai as a class, and was removing them from being what they should be. That's really what he was going on about.

I generally understand a whole bunch of the other stuff you state but for what it's worth am not convinced as yet on your statement as to this.

Ha, fair enough!

It's my own translation from copies of the original scrolls, I took Japanese all the way through uni and spent the following 5 years in tonsure at the monastery in Onsen.

Should I be reading your translation then?

Ooh, if you hadn't added the next, I was going to have some rather serious questions for you!

Seriously though Chris, it's the William Scott Wilson translation and thanks for your views on the above.

Cool. The same one as mine, most likely then. The reason I was asking was to see if you had a different one that may have had some mention of the original kanji used.

 

[Tgace]

From the section I presented:

There are many people who, by being attached to a martial art and taking apprentices, believe that they have arrived at the full stature of a warrior. But it is a regrettable thing to put forth much effort and in the end become an “artist.”

From the OP:

In all cases, the person who practices an art is an artist, not a samurai, and one should have the intention of being called a samurai.

In ALL cases....