The main reason you can't shot a handgun accurately

[Rich Parsons]

I am not a big statistics guy. But I will say that I believe all handguns are underpowered and to win consistently you should be dedicated to extreme close range accuracy under stress. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.

And considering that, you are making the same mistakes accuracy wise at 3 feet, that you are making at 30 yards. It just isn't as noticable. So if you can stack rounds at 3 feet, you will shoot well at 30 yards. If you can't stack rounds at 3 feet, if you are even a little sloppy because you can get away with it up close, you will probably be sloppy aiming in a close range self-defense shooting.

In simple terms I'm saying that your low and left shot in the kill zone at 5 yards, will probably be a low and left shot to the right arm in a fight, or a complete miss. So dedicated yourself to perfect shooting at all times.

In simpler terms, just because you hit a lung or heart on a paper target and got it in the kill zone does not mean you hit where you were aiming. Center mass should be dead center of where you are aiming.

I have shot many qualifications scoring 100 percent and was very unhappy with my shooting.

I Image it was either High Accuracy and Low Precision or Low Accuracy and High Precision

 

[Rich Parsons]

'On the range' is a very general phrase. The average Joe or LEO can go to the range and practice static targets for accuracy and get better, in that environment. As far as I know, all departments require dynamic, TR-22 type training at least annually. In my experience, it was more like monthly.
You are moving and shooting, making mental shoot/don't shoot decisions, changing weapons, shooting standing, kneeling, and prone. Rolling/shooting, crawling/shooting, transitioning to a shooting position. It is pretty intense and definitely puts a good mental and physical stress on you.

Not Challenging, just curious if you could list some of the departments.

In Michigan, outside of the SWAT and or Active Response Teams, I do not know that Monthly is a requirement. And moving and rolling is not for the average township and smaller towns and cities.

 

[Rich Parsons]

But back on topic, part of hitting the target involves making a good shoot decision. Firing a gun at another live human is a mammoth decision. The same way you don't want to rush a shot, you don't want to rush this decision.

I would use the large silhouette shrunk down to fit an average page and then make photo copies.
Put up a few *usually three across and two high * and then work on targeting the correct chart and the correct area at range.

Caveat: I have never considered myself well trained / expert / or anyone with skill . I do listen to those who are, and I do practice.

So at the range would be happy with a shot I made and I would say no it was not where I wanted it.
So I would work on why and try to repeat and correct.

Note: Not just go shoot 20-50 bullets and call it a day and be happy. I would go and practice something I was working on and correcting.
Each one of these things might take a few box 100 that day. then dealing with Fatigue and seeing how that affects one. I mean I am never ten to twelve hours into a work shift an hour from home and 15-16 hours since a bad night of sleep. *Sarcasm*
So to me that mattered.

How do you do that? Simple, prioritize making a good shoot decision over living. Because again, slowing down a touch to be sure takes exposer to risk.

The reality is, making a good shoot decision and hitting your target are largely a mental exercise or insistence on prioritizing these things over life itself, once you are in a real confrontation.

All of that time doing 3 gun and trying to go as fast as possible isn't the whole story. There is an aspect where you must do the opposite. These things are not understood by most, and are not learned on the range.

No Comment - as I have not been under stress with a firearm.
Empty handed, with a knife , with improvised weapons against multiple opponents and with or with out weapons.

And to your in the eye comment.
I have criminals (Gang members) walk away as they see it.
Stand there and mean the following: "I have Blue Cross Blue Shield, I hope you have good insurance as well"
Meaning people are going down with me. I know I am going to get hurt , and I have accepted it, yet I am also letting them know they will be going with me.
It puts hesitation into those who are not 100% committed.

* See other thread currently discussing Chimps and my post there. I called for Police assistance as I looked into his eyes and I knew there was no one home. Either multiple people would be required or complete taking them out would be required. I was not committed that that day and time. *

 

[Argus]

I have treated three LEOs for accidental self inflicted gunshot wounds. Two of the three shot themselves in the left distal fifth metacarpal. None of these incidents occurred whilst on duty.

I'm trying very hard to imagine how that would happen.
Were they practicing some drill where you fend off an attacker with the left hand and draw the gun?
Why would the left hand be in front of the muzzle?

 

[tkdroamer]

Not Challenging, just curious if you could list some of the departments.

In Michigan, outside of the SWAT and or Active Response Teams, I do not know that Monthly is a requirement. And moving and rolling is not for the average township and smaller towns and cities.

My experience has been with TN (Dickson, Davidson, Williamson), KY (Logan, Warren, Allen, Monroe), MS (Marshall, Bishop, Alcorn, and AL (Jackson, Madison, Huntsville. All these counties worked together in a task force.
As I said, not all departments have the requirement more than once annually and augment with range practice.

 

[mograph]

View attachment 29335
I Image it was either High Accuracy and Low Precision or Low Accuracy and High Precision

Point taken, but statistically speaking, the top left target's accuracy isn't bad. The mean of the hits should be farther off-center.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Point taken, but statistically speaking, the top left target's accuracy isn't bad. The mean of the hits should be farther off-center.

One has got to love data

 

[Oily Dragon]

One has got to love data

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I'm trying very hard to imagine how that would happen.
Were they practicing some drill where you fend off an attacker with the left hand and draw the gun?
Why would the left hand be in front of the muzzle?

Think about removing the slide. Say there is a round in the chamber. Then to put the slide back on to the receiver with your left hand. Then to finish that procedure you must pull the trigger. Imagine where your left pinkie finger might be ( if you are sloppy and failing the first rule of firearm handling). Boom! You got it. Best part is one claimed he was cleaning it while on the toilet. I’m not sure I believe that part. That means they failed to clear the weapon before disassembly. Its so dumb they shouldn’t be allowed a service weapon. I have seen some even more moronic gunshot injuries, I only mentioned these because of the thread topic.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Score?

Well yeah, it’s kind of a score on accuracy right?

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'm trying very hard to imagine how that would happen.
Were they practicing some drill where you fend off an attacker with the left hand and draw the gun?
Why would the left hand be in front of the muzzle?

Carelessness.

Some people do a press check to see if there's a round in the chamber. On modern guns, it is generally unnecessary, because chambered round indicators exist. And since some states have made them mandatory, you get them everywhere, because there's no reason to design and build two versions of the same handgun.

Field stripping. Glocks and their clones are field stripped by ejecting the magazine, racking the slide to remove any round in the chamber, closing the slide and then dry firing the weapon to relieve the pressure on the striker. Then pull down on the slide release and you're done.

Done carelessly, either of these could result in a right handed person shooting themselves in the tip of the pinky.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well sort of. Cops don't have to shoot well under stress. They only have to shoot better than the guy shooting back.

And if everyone has this problem. Then inaccuracy kind of cancell's itself out.

Only if they're in a vacuum with their 'opponents'. If you've got A and B shooting at each other, and they've only got like 50% accuracy that cancels out. But if there's C, D, E and F there, just by chance and they were near B when sudden shooting started, A having 50% inaccuracy can be a pretty big issue.

 

[drop bear]

Only if they're in a vacuum with their 'opponents'. If you've got A and B shooting at each other, and they've only got like 50% accuracy that cancels out. But if there's C, D, E and F there, just by chance and they were near B when sudden shooting started, A having 50% inaccuracy can be a pretty big issue.

I still don't think that is fixed by accuracy. If they have more guys in better positions. I don't believe you can shoot your way out very effectively. I get that more accuracy is better than less.

But I don't get how you are solving these problems with more accuracy.

 

[tkdroamer]

Only if they're in a vacuum with their 'opponents'. If you've got A and B shooting at each other, and they've only got like 50% accuracy that cancels out. But if there's C, D, E and F there, just by chance and they were near B when sudden shooting started, A having 50% inaccuracy can be a pretty big issue.

This could increase the 50% probability by a factor 4. I would take those odds.

 

[Darren]

What is the main reason you can't shoot a handgun accurately? It is simple, you aren't motivated to do it well. You don't want to shoot better bad enough.

As a former tactical firearms instructor, it is my belief that shooting handguns is approximately 80 percent mental and 20 percent technical.

Don't get me wrong, you can't fake the skill of shooting a handgun accurately. You need skill to do it, but you will not obtain and maintain the skill without a strong desire to do it well. Also under stress, hitting your target takes extreme intentionality and focus.

When it comes down to it, your average person simply doesn't make hitting the target with a handgun a high priority.

Would think the weight of a handgun is the key, because of the weight it will have a tendency to drop down as well as the recoil of the gun being shot. Using the hand as a base would give you better control of the weapon as well as using both hands to grip the handle of the weapon.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Carelessness.

Some people do a press check to see if there's a round in the chamber. On modern guns, it is generally unnecessary, because chambered round indicators exist. And since some states have made them mandatory, you get them everywhere, because there's no reason to design and build two versions of the same handgun.

Field stripping. Glocks and their clones are field stripped by ejecting the magazine, racking the slide to remove any round in the chamber, closing the slide and then dry firing the weapon to relieve the pressure on the striker. Then pull down on the slide release and you're done.

Done carelessly, either of these could result in a right handed person shooting themselves in the tip of the pinky.

You got it.

 

[Steve]

Only if they're in a vacuum with their 'opponents'. If you've got A and B shooting at each other, and they've only got like 50% accuracy that cancels out. But if there's C, D, E and F there, just by chance and they were near B when sudden shooting started, A having 50% inaccuracy can be a pretty big issue.

42% of the time a cop fires their weapon, the other guy doesn’t have a gun. Sometimes they’re in cars, sometimes it’s a knife, toys, unarmed. And a significant number of them are shot while they’re fleeing not fighting.

We can talk hypotheticals but I think we need to keep it all in perspective. It seems like you have in mind a fire fight like in the movies where good guys and bad guys are shooting at each other. I don’t think that’s typical.

 

[drop bear]

Ok. So how do we fix the mindset issue?

Something like airsoft where people can grow confident with resisted gun fights?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

42% of the time a cop fires their weapon, the other guy doesn’t have a gun. Sometimes they’re in cars, sometimes it’s a knife, toys, unarmed. And a significant number of them are shot while they’re fleeing not fighting.

We can talk hypotheticals but I think we need to keep it all in perspective. It seems like you have in mind a fire fight like in the movies where good guys and bad guys are shooting at each other. I don’t think that’s typical.

I was going based off drop bears statement about shooting better than the guy shooting back.

 

[Jared Traveler]

Ok. So how do we fix the mindset issue?

Something like airsoft where people can grow confident with resisted gun fights?

There are many things that can be done on the range to improve accuracy in a shooting on the street. That is a conversation all on it's own. But as an introduction to the topic, it's important to understand that modern tactical shooting is a martial arts, but isn't being studied and practiced as some other successful martial arts are practiced.