The Koryo leg break

[skribs]

In Koryo, there is a technique which is explained as grabbing your enemy's leg and breaking the knee with an arc-hand strike. This technique has always seemed very strange to me, given how strong legs are compared to arms. Usually a leg break involves bear-hugging the leg and isolating the joint. Is simply clutching the leg and striking the knee with your hand an effective way of breaking the knee?

 

[Jaeimseu]

I highly doubt it. Maybe you could do some damage to the knee cap, though.


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[Dirty Dog]

No, you're not going to break it. You can dislocate the patella fairly easily, however.

 

[dvcochran]

In Koryo, there is a technique which is explained as grabbing your enemy's leg and breaking the knee with an arc-hand strike. This technique has always seemed very strange to me, given how strong legs are compared to arms. Usually a leg break involves bear-hugging the leg and isolating the joint. Is simply clutching the leg and striking the knee with your hand an effective way of breaking the knee?

Can you be specific on which move? I have never heard that explanation in Koryo.

 

[Rough Rider]

Can you be specific on which move? I have never heard that explanation in Koryo.

It's move #12, right after the three open-hand low block/arc-hand strikes. It's done again (with the other hand) in move #14.

 

[Rough Rider]

From The Complete Taekwondo Poomsae:

12a. With the left foot fixed, execute a right front kick (orenbal apchagi).
12b. Step down with the right foot into right front stance (oren apkubi) and execute a left knee break (murepkukki).

 

[skribs]

Can you be specific on which move? I have never heard that explanation in Koryo.

What they said. I've only ever heard it described as such, and honestly don't know what else it COULD be.

 

[andyjeffries]

The Kukkiwon answer (on a Kukkiwon Master Course I did, can't remember which one) that it's a patella dislocation/ligament tearing movement, not a direct downward knee break. The strike moves forward, pushing the patella up the thigh, not downward.

 

[Danny T]

Driving the patella up the thigh. The thigh is parallel to the ground. Can also be a groin attack...grab and pull or strike.

 

[dvcochran]

The Kukkiwon answer (on a Kukkiwon Master Course I did, can't remember which one) that it's a patella dislocation/ligament tearing movement, not a direct downward knee break. The strike moves forward, pushing the patella up the thigh, not downward.

Ok, but can you tell me or show a video of which move?

 

[skribs]

Ok, but can you tell me or show a video of which move?

Koryo

At 1:40

 

[dvcochran]

Koryo

At 1:40

Got it. We were taught it was a strike but I don't remember being it being specific. The knee does make sense though given the moves prior to it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Got it. We were taught it was a strike but I don't remember being it being specific. The knee does make sense though given the moves prior to it.

So, are "opponent" positions consistent in poomsae? I ask because I tried briefly for that kind of consistency in forms, then just decided magically teleported opponents were easier to choreograph.

 

[skribs]

So, are "opponent" positions consistent in poomsae? I ask because I tried briefly for that kind of consistency in forms, then just decided magically teleported opponents were easier to choreograph.

I assumed a new opponent, not a teleporting one.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I assumed a new opponent, not a teleporting one.

Some of the positions for "next opponent" in my kata are only possible if either the new or the previous opponent teleport...or are really skinny. And I still can't figure out why some of them stand where they do. Bunch of weirdos.

 

[dvcochran]

After walking through it few times, we make the strike much lower, as if the opponent is coming up from the ground and you are striking the throat. In this idea, it could be the same opponent.

 

[Buka]

Koryo

At 1:40

I wish every Kata from every style was put on video in this way. That was way cool.

 

[skribs]

I wish every Kata from every style was put on video in this way. That was way cool.

One thing I've thought about doing with my demo team is designing a form that will be done stylistically with a group of people, and then one person will do the form again, where the others are the attackers and you see how the moves can be applied.

There's a girl on my demonstration team who has tons of ideas (I eventually told her to get a journal and write down her ideas, she texted me the next day telling me how many pages she had written). One of her ideas was to design a form that will be done with a group of people, and then one person will do the form again, where the others are the attackers and you see how the moves can be applied.

I told her it was a brilliant idea. Then I told her why I thought it was a brilliant idea.

 

[TrueJim]

I wish every Kata from every style was put on video in this way. That was way cool.

Thank you sir! That video was shot in the school I attend (Majest Martial Arts in Sterling Virginia). The performer is Dong-Jin Kim, a former university poomsae champion in Korea -- I'm trying to recall, I think he competed for Kyung-Min University? He now teaches in Leesburg, Virginia. The person shooting the video (and the person who is heard speaking) is Seung-Min Choi, one of the earliest K-Tigers (he started with the K-Tigers in 1992), and former coach of the US Marine Corps taekwondo team. (As I write this, Master Choi is in Utah coaching our school's poomsae team at Nationals.) The person who edited the video and added the text is as handsome as he is talented.

There are tons of things I would do to make that series of videos better if I could (right now it covers only T1-8 + Koryo), but it's difficult to get all the right ingredients in the same place at the same time for long enough. If we make an update to that series of videos (which we have discussed doing) this time we'll try to shoot it in 4K, and from multiple angles. In the existing series of videos, it was a bit of a "rush job" on our part to get everything shot after the Saturday morning classes had finished but before the Saturday afternoon team practices began.

Majest <-- our YouTube channel

I'm also the author of this series of diagrams like the one show below, and I've had the same thought: if I only had the time (and the knowledge) it'd be nice to diagram all kata/poomsae/hyeung/teul in this style. Maybe someday when I retire from my day job, creating modern documentation of the all the kata/poomsae/hyeung/teul would make a fun retirement project.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thank you sir! That video was shot in the school I attend (Majest Martial Arts in Sterling Virginia). The performer is Dong-Jin Kim, a former university poomsae champion in Korea -- I'm trying to recall, I think he competed for Kyung-Min University? He now teaches in Leesburg, Virginia. The person shooting the video (and the person who is heard speaking) is Seung-Min Choi, one of the earliest K-Tigers (he started with the K-Tigers in 1992), and former coach of the US Marine Corps taekwondo team. (As I write this, Master Choi is in Utah coaching our school's poomsae team at Nationals.) The person who edited the video and added the text is as handsome as he is talented.

There are tons of things I would do to make that series of videos better if I could (right now it covers only T1-8 + Koryo), but it's difficult to get all the right ingredients in the same place at the same time for long enough. If we make an update to that series of videos (which we have discussed doing) this time we'll try to shoot it in 4K, and from multiple angles. In the existing series of videos, it was a bit of a "rush job" on our part to get everything shot after the Saturday morning classes had finished but before the Saturday afternoon team practices began.

Majest <-- our YouTube channel

I'm also the author of this series of diagrams like the one show below, and I've had the same thought: if I only had the time (and the knowledge) it'd be nice to diagram all kata/poomsae/hyeung/teul in this style. Maybe someday when I retire from my day job, creating modern documentation of the all the kata/poomsae/hyeung/teul would make a fun retirement project.

I like that diagram. What software do you use to produce the figures? I've been considering improving how I diagram the kata I teach, and this is much better than the simple arrows I use (they only show direction).