The Hidden Roots of Judaism and and Christianity

elder999

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The hidden roots of Judaism and Christianity are in animal sacrifice, human sacrifice, and cannibalism.

Animal sacrifice is the ritual killing of an animal as part of a religious rite. In many cases, this has evolved into ritual slaughter, the religious rite of killing an animal for consumption, where prayers are said, rather than the animal being part and parcel of the prayer. The reasons behind it taking place are varied across the world and through time. In Judaism, or rather, Hebrew Temple worship, it was often understood that the animal being sacrificed was being offered in the place of the person doing the sacrifice, in recognition that that person should be sacrificed for their sin or wrongdoing. It was a blood atonement.. There is evidence, of course, that human sacrifices also took place in the ancient world.As can be seen in the Old Testament, an animal or animals were often substituted in place of a human.

From the time of Moses till the time of the prophet Hezekiah, a period of seven hundred years or more, the Hebrews were not necessarily monotheistic, but sometime idolaters, as their records show. The serpent was reverenced as the Healer of the Nation; they worshipped a bull called Apis, as did the Egyptians; they worshipped the sun, moon, stars, and all the hosts of heaven; they worshipped fire, and kept it burning on an altar, as did the Persians and other nations; they worshipped stones, revered an oak-tree, and bowed down to images; they worshipped a virgin mother and child; they worshipped Baal, Moloch, and Chemosh (names given to the sun), and offered up human sacrifices to them, after which, in some instances, they ate the victims.

Apparently, some peoples eventually found the ritual murder of their king or other representative to be repugnant, yet there is also evidence that human sacrifice was probably practiced by the Jews until the time of the Romans, who sought to put an end to it-at least, thats the way some Roman histories tell it. Hebrew rituals, though, from Abraham through the period of Temple worship that ended around 70 A.D. often entailed the ritual sacrifice of animals, though there were commentaries against it. There are many instances of animal and at least one human sacrifice in the Old Testament-as well as stories of cannibalism, and in the New Testament, Jesuss parents sacrifice two doves (Luke 2:21-27) after he is circumcised:
21 And when eight days were fulfilled for circumcising him, his name was called JESUS, which was so called by the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
22 And when the days of their purification according to the law of Moses were fulfilled, they brought him up to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord
23 (as it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord),
24 and to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

and Paul performs a Temple worship ritual, involving sacrifice ("offering") quite a while after Jesuss death (Acts 21:23-26):

24 these take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges for them, that they may shave their heads: and all shall know that there is no truth in the things whereof they have been informed concerning thee; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, keeping the law.
25 But as touching the Gentiles that have believed, we wrote, giving judgment that they should keep themselves from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what is strangled, and from fornication.
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them went into the temple, declaring the fulfilment of the days of purification, until the offering was offered for every one of them.

In any case, some Jews and some Christians still practice rituals that sacrifice animals. Shortly before Yom Kippur, for example, some orthodox Jews practice the ritual of Kapparos, where they hold an object above their heads, pray and ritually transfer their sins to the object as a means of atonement. For many (most) contemporary Jews, the object is money, which is then donated to charity. For others, though, the object is a as it was in the original rite, a chicken, which is held by the shoulder blades, prayed over-to symbolically transfer sins- slaughtered, and again, donated to charity-becoming a poor familys pre-Yom Kippur meal.

Cannibalism. Its an idea that conjures all sorts of thoughts and reactions in human beings around the world. Theres evidence that the Anasazi, the puebloan Indians that inhabited the four corners region from about 500 B.C. to about 1300 A.D., practiced cannibalism at the end of their reign in the area, evidence in the form of human bones from that era that show evidence of preparation for consumption. While its purely speculative evidence, and archaeologists and anthropologists are still lining up on both sides of the issue, the reaction from the Pueblo, Hopi and Navaho communities-all of whom claim at least some distant relation to those ancient people-was immediate and vociferous, and to make the suggestion to some of those people today is to look for a fight, such is the power of the ancient taboo and stigma attached to the very idea of cannibalism.. Back east, the woodland Indians probably made up a variety of myths and legends, like the flesh eating Wendigo, to speak of those times when cannibalism became necessary-one bad winter, a relative might disappear, and one would say, The wendigo carried them off, rather than , well, "we had to eat them"........on the other hand, the instances of cannibalism that we have record of in the modern era-the famous Andean flight portrayed in the book Alive! for instance-show that the consumption of human flesh for survival takes on religious implications for the individuals who survive, and sometimes even for those who are dying, knowing that they might be consumed. We also see evidence of religious ritual accompanying the practice of cannibalism in those tribal people who still practice it, or for whom the practice is still in cultural memory. We also can see evidence of this theme in the ancient world, not only in the practice of cannibalism per se, but in religious rituals where one consumed the" body and blood of god."

As repulsive as the notion may seem, it is a fact that "theophagy"--the technical term for the consumption of a god's body and blood--has been considered a religious experience worldwide for thousands of years. While certain religions (-cough!-Christianity-cough!-) may think that they invented the concept of the Eucharist, and that "Holy Communion" has nothing whatsoever to do with cannibalism, the ritual of sacrificing a god or goddess and sharing his or her blood and body as a sacrament is an act found throughout the ancient world. The only thing so-called modern religion has done is to maintain the form of the ritual in a symbolic rather than literal sense.

"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him," so the "founder of Christianity," Jesus, purportedly said. It might seem abhorrent to the Christians of today that one of their most precious rituals actually has its roots in the cannibalistic sacrifice and consumption of their deity. This origin, however, is the fact.

Far from being a Christian invention, rituals similar to what came to be called the Eucharist have been practiced for millennia by various cults and sects around the globe. Initially, thousands of years before the Christian myth was established, an actual human being, acting as proxy for the deity worshipped, was sacrificed and eaten by the cult's followers. In some cases, more than one person was killed and consumed in this matter. This behavior went on throughout the ancient world, and the words regarding this act--"For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." etc.- attributed to Jesus were generally part of the ritual

As we know, in Christianity the theophagous act is now purely symbolic, and Jesus is the primary human sacrifice, but it was not always this way in the predecessor religions that contributed to the formation of Christianity. No matter how far away from it we wish to get, theophagy used to signify the actual dismemberment and consumption of a human being. The Eucharist has its roots in a cannibalistic act, plain and simple.
 

tellner

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Animal sacrifice? Yep.

YHVH as the first but not only god? Yep, for quite a while.

Human sacrifice? For Christians, certainly a symbolic version. But the evidence for human sacrifice among the Jews only comes from Roman sources. The Romans tended to accuse everyone they conquered of it that sort of thing from the Keltoi to the Germans to the Egyptians.
 
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Human sacrifice? For Christians, certainly a symbolic version. But the evidence for human sacrifice among the Jews only comes from Roman sources. The Romans tended to accuse everyone they conquered of it that sort of thing from the Keltoi to the Germans to the Egyptians.

Actually, in Genesis we have Abraham being told by God to offer his son, Isaac, as a burnt offering. Then, of course,at the last minute, God takes it back (psych!)

After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, ‘Abraham!’ And he said, ‘Here am I.’ He said, ‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you’." Genesis 22:1-2

Then, later we have Jepthah actually sacrificing his daughter, due to a promise he made God, in Judges:

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. - Judges 11:29-40


There is, of course, more...... while I don't mean to conjure up the old "blood libel," and I'm well aware of the Abrahamic taboo against human sacrifice, it's worth pointing out that the taboo didn't come about in a vacuum. If something has a prohibition against it, then it surely took place prior to the prohibition, if not after.

And, in fact, while "the Lord" orders that all first born males are consecrated to Him (widely read as "sacrificed") the consecration that actually takes place is a Temple offering, an animal sacrifice made in the child's stead-in the case of Jesus, 2 doves.....
 
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Tez3

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Elder I'm not sure which congregation you have seen rasing chickens or money above their heads on Yom Kippur but it's not one I've ever heard of. The ceremony is that of casting bread upon the waters, this signifies the casting away of our sins after repentance. I've never heard of anywhere using anything else. The Kol Nidre service is one of the most beautiful things I know.
I think you should bear in mind that Jewish law and custom has evolved and continues to evolve so that what was law once isn't always law now. Much of what was once law and custom is now history and treated as such by Jews. Christians may use everything in the Bible but we don't.
The blood libel is a nasty and dangerous thing and has cost many many lives.
The human race started as 'savages', all of us, some have moved on others haven't, to use what is thousands of years in our past against us now is unfair. As Tellner says too, human sacrifice among Jews is hearsay nothing more. The Romans also said it about the Celts, the Gauls etc etc. To the Jewish people this is history and/or allegory, stories to teach ignorant people. I don't know either why you say it's hidden, it isn't it's there for anyone to read. This increasingly sounds like an attack on Judaism and I'd be interested to know why?

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ar..._bread_on_the_water_nourishes_a_congregation/

http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday4.htm
 
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elder999

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Elder I'm not sure which congregation you have seen rasing chickens or money above their heads on Yom Kippur but it's not one I've ever heard of. The ceremony is that of casting bread upon the waters, this signifies the casting away of our sins after repentance. I've never heard of anywhere using anything else. The Kol Nidre service is one of the most beautiful things I know.

Well, I'm not talking about the Kol Nidre, Irene. I called it by name, kapparos; I explained when (the eve of Yom Kippur), why and how it was done, and I said that all Jews don't do it. It takes place in certain Orthodox communities, just as I've described, and it's become quite controversial in New York and Jerusalem-mostly from people who say it's "cruelty to animals."

You can read about it, and see some more, fairly graphic photos in ArutzSheva at IsraelNationalNews.com

I personally don't care one way or the other. Beyond the fact of it taking place, it's none of my business how people pray, as long as it doesn't hurt other people.

Hell, it's rather tame compared to what I've personally seen some voudon people do with a chicken....

This increasingly sounds like an attack on Judaism and I'd be interested to know why?


Because people-as in you and me-are touchy about certain things, and sometimes when they don't like what they hear, they think it's an attack, even when it's just a statement of fact? I mean, I dunno why it seems that way to you, but I'm sorry if, as the bearer of bad news, I've offended you. Sorry, but I didn't make it up.......
 

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sgtmac_46

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The hidden roots of Judaism and Christianity are in animal sacrifice, human sacrifice, and cannibalism.
Can I presume this is an at continuation of the now defunct Islam thread?
 

Tez3

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Elder, I didn't say you were making it up, in over fifty years of being Jewish I know no one who does that and reading the article you posted the link to you missied the most important point, it said it was Kabbalists who had 'revived' this thing. If you look at the clothing of the people,their demeanor etc you'll find they aren't orthodox or ultra orthodox but those of the Madonna ilk who have taken to the Kabbal as if it's some magic thing that will save them. They also sell 'holy' water and red bracelets which give protection. it's as Jewish as Scientology is Christian but hey it's a stick to beat us with...Jews cruel to chickens....that'll lead to the blood libel.... Jews eat children. That'll cost a few more lives then.

Sensitive, damn right I am, my mother lost her entire family to the Nazis who chose to believe the blood libel, I spend my spare time doing Op Wideawake checks on our local synagogue and schools because people want to kill the congregation and the teachers and pupils, thats not an inconvienient fact I don't want to face, it's what life is like for Jewish communities in many places now. for you it's an amusing discussion on the internet, for me it's not.
 
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elder999

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Elder, I didn't say you were making it up, in over fifty years of being Jewish I know no one who does that and reading the article you posted the link to you missied the most important point, it said it was Kabbalists who had 'revived' this thing. If you look at the clothing of the people,their demeanor etc you'll find they aren't orthodox or ultra orthodox but those of the Madonna ilk who have taken to the Kabbal as if it's some magic thing that will save them. They also sell 'holy' water and red bracelets which give protection. it's as Jewish as Scientology is Christian but hey it's a stick to beat us with...Jews cruel to chickens....that'll lead to the blood libel.... Jews eat children. That'll cost a few more lives then.

Actually, the only mention of "Kabbalists" in the article is bolded below:

Rabbi Yosef Karo, in the Shulchan Aruch, his major work on Jewish law, wrote that the custom should not be performed and warned that it had parallels to polytheistic rites. Rabbi Moses Isserles, the Ramah, author of a major commentary on Karo’s work, disagrees, saying the practice is an ancient custom and should not be changed. Kabbalists such as Rabbi Yitzchak Luria of Tzfat were said to have embraced the custom and attached deep mystical significance to it. Other Kabbalists, such as the Ramban (Nachmanides), were opposed to the ritual as well.

So we see that even Kabbalists have been on either side of it, but it's not a practice that's confined to the "Madonna red-string bracelet" set.

There's plenty of evidence for this taking place-and having taken place for a long time-in Orthodox communities throughout the world-in some they use plants, or geese where they don't have chickens. It's happened in New York City at least since I lived there as a very small child, 40 or more years ago.

And far be it from me to suggest that you learn more about the nuances and various flavors of your own faith, Irene, but you can read more about it on the virtual Jewish Library of the American-Israeli cooperative or elsewhere if you like, but you might do a little more research, instead of just jumping to all sorts of conclusions in an effort to discredit it.


I mean, I was raised a Christian, and still know lots and lots and lots of Christians, and have Christian relatives-some of them Pentacostals, but I've never met a Pentacostal that handled poisonous snakes and drank cyanide. Doesn't mean that there aren't any, 'cause there are.....

for you it's an amusing discussion on the internet, for me it's not.

Interesting that my references to cannibalism, human sacrifice and the Eucharist aren't seen as such an "attack on Christianity".

It's an interestng discussion, not necessarily amusing, but you'd probably also do well to remember that it's only the Internet. What's true is true, and not necessarily an attack, though I can see how you might view it that way, and I understand your distress. I've apologized for that all I can, but I'm not going to deny the very clear truth of it-I'm not even saying it's a bad thing.
 

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Tez, the chicken ceremony is universal among the Charedi and nearly so among the Orthodox.
 

Tez3

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So apart from pointing out a few weirdos waving chickens around and being condescending to me about learning more about my religion is there really a point to all this?

People don't see that it's an attack on Christianity as it doesn't cost lives. In Gaza and the Middle East the blood libel is repeated often and believed. As it is in Russia nd a fair few other places. hat message is also spread on the internet. As your posts are now on the internet for anyone to see, it adds to the 'evidence' people use against us. paranoid? perhaps but even paranoid people have enemies.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15098
 
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So apart from pointing out a few weirdos waving chickens around and being condescending to me about learning more about my religion is there really a point to all this?

Well, it supports my basic thesis: that Jewish and Christian rituals have their roots in controversial practices, and that some of those practices still take place among some adherents. I wouldn't call them weirdos, any more than I would snake-handlers or voodoun practitioners.

I didn't mean to be condescending, though, I'll admit, sometimes I can't help but come across that way. It is apparent that you weren't aware of something that is fairly commonly known.

Otherwise, why does there "have to be a point to all this?"
 
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CanuckMA

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Kapparos is nowhere near 'fairly common'. You cite Rammah and Ramban, you are aware that thse are old, right?

Judaism encompasses a wide range of practices. That using a chicken for Kapparos happens by precious few, and is condemned by everybody else should give you a clue. And yes, I too am offended by your posts. When my entire family, both my side and my wife's, sit down for a Seder, and there is only a dozen of us, it is a reminder of what 'information' like that can do.

I grew up in a predominently Xtian neighbourhood in the 60s. And it was most prident to not be too visible around Easter because of what was being said about 'the Jews' in churches.

I agree with Tez. I don't quite see the point of your thread.
 
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elder999

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Kapparos is nowhere near 'fairly common'. You cite Rammah and Ramban, you are aware that thse are old, right?

So are Genesis and Leviticus-fairly old, that is.Doesn't make them any less or more valid, especially to some.

I said "fairly commonly known." See below.


Judaism encompasses a wide range of practices. That using a chicken for Kapparos happens by precious few, and is condemned by everybody else should give you a clue.

Christianity encompasses a wide range of practices. Snake handling and flagellation among them. That they are done by a few, and condemned by many, doesn't make them wrong or invalid, just different. In fact, I certainly haven't made any judgements or pronouncements about kapparos; I've merely pointed out that it happens in some Jewish communities, just as snake handling, flagellation, speaking in tongues, and, yes, animal sacrifices occur in some Christian communities. All somewhat in the minority, all odd to others, all equally valid expressions of prayer to those who use them.

In fact, the only people who seem to see any negative connotation to this admittedly controversial ritual are you and Tez3. I've already said that, except for the fact of it, it's none of my business one way or the other, and that, perhaps, is another point.

I'm not even going to get into some of the ceremonies and rituals I participate in, but the reaction to one of them-even from my wife-is that it's "cruel and barbaric...." in part because it is.

And yes, I too am offended by your posts. When my entire family, both my side and my wife's, sit down for a Seder, and there is only a dozen of us, it is a reminder of what 'information' like that can do.

I grew up in a predominently Xtian neighbourhood in the 60s. And it was most prident to not be too visible around Easter because of what was being said about 'the Jews' in churches.

I agree with Tez. I don't quite see the point of your thread.

Here's an article on the practice, and its controversy, in the New York Times:

The tradition, which is also practiced in Israel, consumes tens of thousands of chickens each year in Brooklyn.

That's a lotta chickens for just a "few weirdos."

I grew up in pretty mixed neighborhoods in the 60's and 70's-though, when we moved to Westchester in 1968 we were the only "black" family for years and years. In any case, there were several Jewish families on the block, and, for the most part, we all got along. A few of the families had daughters my sister's age, and they all played together-we all got together for their holidays, and they came to our house for Christmas and Easter-not just the kids, but the parents as well. Mind you, my dad was an Episcopal priest, and all the parents viewed it as an exercise in education and tolerance for their kids.

Sorry you're offended. Maybe you should tell the communities that use this practice to stop doing it.
 
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Santeria is a syncretic religion that combines aspects of Yoruban religious practices brought to the Americas by slaves, Native American beliefs and practices, and Catholicism. While the worship of saints from which it derives its name was once something of a disguise for the non-Christian portions of the religion, this is no longer the case, and most practitioners consider themselves devout Catholics.

In many of their rituals, which are related to what some call voodoo, or, more properly , voudoun (in fact, some would argue that Santeria is a Latinized version of the same belief system) they sacrifice animals: chickens, goats, lambs, geese…..

In Africa, the Catholic church permits animal sacrifice to take place within the church as part of the inculation procedure for converts. The Archdiocese views the practice as accommodating paying respect to the converts ancestors.

There have been more than a few court cases in the U.S., relating to Santeria, animal sacrifice, and cruelty to animals. In New York, the practice pretty much became legal in the late 90’s. I’m not so sure about the outcome of the Texas cases, or if there has been a decision yet. In any case, it’s an example of a” Christian”-or what some will insist is a quasi-Christian ritual use of animals, and one that is finding the same protection under the law in the U.S. as the kapparot.
 

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CanuckMA

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So are Genesis and Leviticus-fairly old, that is.Doesn't make them any less or more valid, especially to some.

You do understand the concept of practices changing, don't you?


. In fact, I certainly haven't made any judgements or pronouncements about kapparos; I've merely pointed out that it happens in some Jewish communities,

The fact of digging up an arcane, marginalized prctice bring into questions your motives.

[/quote]

In fact, the only people who seem to see any negative connotation to this admittedly controversial ritual are you and Tez3.

Both Tez and myself have similar background. That background makes us sensitive to people deliberately, and for no reason, trying comment on sometihing like Kapporos like it was common practice.

I've already said that, except for the fact of it, it's none of my business one way or the other, and that, perhaps, is another point.

Then why bring it up?

Here's an article on the practice, and its controversy, in the New York Times:

The tradition, which is also practiced in Israel, consumes tens of thousands of chickens each year in Brooklyn.

That's a lotta chickens for just a "few weirdos."

Tens of thousands of chicken, in Brooklin alone? for Kapporos? It's nice to se that the NYT still adheres to hard journalistic integrity.

That Jews in Brooklin consume tens of thousand of chickens on the eve of Yom Kippur, I don't doubt. It's the traditional meal before the fast. That a ew hundreds are used for Kaporros would be more appropriate.
 
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You do understand the concept of practices changing, don't you?

I understand perfectly.You should ask those that are practicing this ritual that question.



The fact of digging up an arcane, marginalized prctice bring into questions your motives.


My only motive is to foster discussion like this one we're having-no more and no less. I haven't said the practice is bad-though I've recognized its inherent controversy. I haven't said the practice is weird. I haven't attached any negative connotations to it. I've posted about animal sacrifice in the Christian world-again, in line with the theme of my original post. I've apologized for offending you, but I'm not going to take back one thing that I've posted; it's all true, it's all factual, and it's all supported. If you have a beef with this ritual,like I said, you need to talk to the people who are doing it, not me. I don't have a beef with it-in fact, I think it's great that the chickens get eaten by the poor, instead of left to rot or buried like the santeros do....

Both Tez and myself have similar background. That background makes us sensitive to people deliberately, and for no reason, trying comment on sometihing like Kapporos like it was common practice.

Everything I've read says that for some Orthodox Jews, it's a common practice. Everything I've posted has made it clear that it's not something that all Jews do. I've already posted my reason. Again, sorry you're offended-talk to Rabbi Hecht, in Brooklyn.:lol:

You can write him here:

Rabbi Shea Hecht
Chairman NCFJE, 824 Eastern Parkway, Brooklyn, NY 11213

Or on his blog

Here's a brief bio:

Rabbi Shea Hecht is the chairman of the National Committee for Furtherance of Jewish Education. He is a Rabbi and activist in the Jewish community who has received awards by both government and private organizations for his work in fostering racial harmony. Shea was a member of Mayor Giuliani’s task force on police/community relations and a Commissioner of Human Rights for the New York City. Shea's expertise is family crisis intervention and as a community liaison to government agencies. His articles are printed in many prominent periodicals, including The Jerusalem Post and The Jewish Week.

Doesn't sound marginal, arcane, or weird to me......no more than any other, anyway....



Then why bring it up?

Why not bring it up? As I've said, it supports the theme of my original post. I certainly didn't bring it up to offend anyone, or to say anything derogatory about the practice itself, or Jews in general-and I haven't, have I?

Tens of thousands of chicken, in Brooklin alone? for Kapporos? It's nice to se that the NYT still adheres to hard journalistic integrity.

That Jews in Brooklin consume tens of thousand of chickens on the eve of Yom Kippur, I don't doubt. It's the traditional meal before the fast. That a ew hundreds are used for Kaporros would be more appropriate.


And in Toronto you'd know this how?:lol:

From the article:

Now the Brooklyn rabbis arrange for local slaughtering, which takes hours based on the sheer volume of chickens. “We’re still out there, still koshering the chicken,” Rabbi Hecht said early Wednesday.

City Room asked if multiple people could use the same chicken before it was killed, as a strategy to reduce the volume of chicken carcasses. Yes, he said, but then explained, “In today’s world when a chicken doesn’t cost that much money, people are like, ‘I can afford my own chicken.’ ”

To make it easier, he said his congregation subsidized the chickens by buying them in bulk. “We charge the people only $2,” he said. But as part of a fund-raiser on Tuesday night, the rabbi said he charged as much as $13 for the chickens, with a discount for students.

Rabbi Hecht defended the practice: “What I do is 100 percent within the right of my religious freedom within the country.”


And, from another article:

The Brooklyn-based Jewish organization slaughters about 4,000 chickens


Tens of thousands? Four thousand? I don't know; I'm not there. Ask the rabbi. I'd say if the four seems more likely, it doesn't make the ten any less likely. A good indication would probably be the number of adherents in that particular rabbi's community. Since it's in Crown Heights, neither number is completely unrealistic.

From The New York Post

Earlier this month, a group of about a dozen respected rabbis met to look at the evidence of trouble. Afterward, they called for an upgrade of the process, including how the birds are trucked in, where they are held before the ritual, and how they are slaughtered.
"It's not going to be stopped," said Isaac Abraham, a Hasidic community activist. "We have to make sure everything is done in a proper way."
Abraham said that at least 50,000 chickens are used in ceremonies across Brooklyn.

I mean, you do realize that over 2.5 million people live in Brooklyn, and about 25% of those are Jewish of one sort or another?

Here's an advert. for kapparos in Houston:

And here's one in Toronto:

ANNUAL KAPAROS PROGRAM An opportunity to use live chickens for Kapparos. Takes place in the Ohel Sarah Shul Succah. Men, women & children are welcome. Special treats for children.

While it may not be an across the board mainstream practice, it apparently is-denials to the contrary-something that is practiced in several, legitimate Orthodox communities. That's not my fault.
 
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Mr.Pittbull

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This whole topic for these forums seems a kinda out of place, but whatever you know. I can say as a Christian that I'm not offended at you bringing this up I am fully aware that there are people in this world that do some crazy things in the name of "God",as a Christian I can't answer for things that other Christians do like sacrificing a human (which is out and out murder) or animals, which is clearly outlined that we dont have to do any more because of the ultimate sacrifice which was Jesus.

Addressing the two accounts in scripture you pointed out.
1) Abrahams faith was tested by God, He never intended for Abraham to kill Issac, but he really put Abrahams heart to the test. God found him faithful.
2) Jephthah taught us a lesson that can still be understood today. As it was custom in his day generals would often offer up a sacrifice to God. Jephthahs pain was more than alluded to for having to sacrifice his only daughter do to his pious but unwise pledge. The lesson is be careful when we're in a situation and we try to barter with God.(That is, however, beside the point.)
I wouldnt say weather we be Jew or Christian our roots are in human sacrifice (Deut. 12:31), animal yes but not human. I know there are crazies our there but they obviously dont follow the same doctrine that Jesus laid down for us, or the one that God laid down for the Jews.

I'm not here to argue just wanted to add my two cents in on this and retort with a different view point. Have a blessed day.
 

CanuckMA

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elder, it may surprise you that I'm immensely more familiar with Orthodox communities than you will ever be. I am part of it.

You do realize that a infinitisimal number of the Orthodox community do this, and that the Orthodox community in North America is roughly 10% of the total Jewish community. The 'ritual' is now mostly performed as a way to donate food for the needy at our most Holy festival.

You come at it with a 'look at what Jews are still doing today' attitude.

Before you try to criticize, inform yourself. And newspaper articles are not the best of sources.
 

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