Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
What's your experience with the fear of getting hit? The fear of pain, the fear of the unknown and how to overcome it.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
The fear of getting hit
- Thread starter Damian Mavis
- Start date
Cruentus
Grandmaster
I think that it is the fear of the unknown. People who aren't used to getting hit aren't sure what it will do to them, deep down inside. They don't know if it will hurt, how bad, will they be injured, disfigured, will nothing happend, etc. Because they don't know, they are afraid.
The best remedy is to get hit. Throw some gear on and set parameters so that it will be in a controlled environment, then go buck wild.
They will get hit and they will see that it really isn't that bad. This will remove the fear of the unknown, hence removing their fear of being hit.
The best remedy is to get hit. Throw some gear on and set parameters so that it will be in a controlled environment, then go buck wild.
They will get hit and they will see that it really isn't that bad. This will remove the fear of the unknown, hence removing their fear of being hit.
I agree with paul for the most part...
except i'd add to take it easy with the beginners, and step it up when its appropriate....
my experience with getting hit made it very difficult for me to learn how to get hit (and I'm still learning...) the first time I tried sparring, I got paired with a green belt with no control whatsoever, and had so many bruises that my mom swore that I was never going to go back to martial arts ever again! and it isn't like I went running to mommy...she just got a good look at me after I got home from class. I didn't spar for almost six years after that. the second time I had any serious contact in the studio I ended up with two broken ribs. after that, I really shyed away from getting hit. My new instructor has told me many times that "I'm going to hit you, but I'm not going to hurt you." and its starting to sink in. I trust him to work with me, and I might get a bruise or two, but I know he isn't going to injure me. I still don't trust a lot of the other students, though, but I'm working on it.
learning how to get hit takes time and patience, and trust in the person you're working with.
except i'd add to take it easy with the beginners, and step it up when its appropriate....
my experience with getting hit made it very difficult for me to learn how to get hit (and I'm still learning...) the first time I tried sparring, I got paired with a green belt with no control whatsoever, and had so many bruises that my mom swore that I was never going to go back to martial arts ever again! and it isn't like I went running to mommy...she just got a good look at me after I got home from class. I didn't spar for almost six years after that. the second time I had any serious contact in the studio I ended up with two broken ribs. after that, I really shyed away from getting hit. My new instructor has told me many times that "I'm going to hit you, but I'm not going to hurt you." and its starting to sink in. I trust him to work with me, and I might get a bruise or two, but I know he isn't going to injure me. I still don't trust a lot of the other students, though, but I'm working on it.
learning how to get hit takes time and patience, and trust in the person you're working with.
A
andurilking2
Guest
i never was really afraid of getting hit i would start fights with kids my age and much older for about as long as i could remember, so i got beat up alot and now as an adult i dont mind it too much. also my trainer would help alot he would hit me pretty hard for just about the whole training session so i was pretty used to it, but i find alot of kids in the school whether sparring or training they tend to try harder to avoid getting hit then to actually focus on what their doing and they usually end up getting creamed as a result.
my philosiphy is eventually your going to square up against someone who is faster and more agile than yourself so you will eventually get hit, preparing yourself for that moment is better in my opinion than trying to avoid it.
my philosiphy is eventually your going to square up against someone who is faster and more agile than yourself so you will eventually get hit, preparing yourself for that moment is better in my opinion than trying to avoid it.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
When breaking someones fear of getting hit, some level of control needs to be used. It is not wise to pair up someone with a less experienced fighter for their 1st few sparring match's. The other person may lack control which will turn the experience into a bad one, thus confirming their fear. It is better to pair them with an experienced instructor who has the control to push them just a little past their limits without hurting them, or making it a bad experience for them.
:asian:
:asian:
The only fear I have is being hit in the nose and having it broken. Now *that* HURTS especially when it happens as a surprise!!! It does teach me to guard my face better....
One thing about martial arts is that I KNOW it is a contact activity. As such, injuries can and do happen. Thus, I am more or less mentally
prepared and can tolerate pain when that happens.
- Ceicei
P
pknox
Guest
Very true. It's often been said that a white belt is one of the most dangerous people in the dojo -- this is due to their lack of control. When two white belts spar together, it often seems like a miracle that nobody gets hurt. Pairing a white belt with a senior student, as you suggested, usually works better.
It is very important for anyone who is in a punch/kick art to get over the initial fear of contact -- in my mind, that is one of the goals a newer student should work towards, and is something that should be part of a beginning student's syllabus. "Throwing them to the wolves" is often counterproductive for many reasons. While it is often positioned as "building fighting spirit" and may eventually teach a student to deal with contact, it often produces fighters who are "trying not to get hit", as opposed to trying to "hit their opponent." The best approach seems to be a gradual one -- having the student first block an announced telegraphed strike, than deal with non-announced/telegraphed strikes only to specific, pre-determined targets, and finally free sparring.
E
Eggman
Guest
i disagree, at least with a white you know they are a white belt and should expect a lack of control. My problem is with upper belts who should be a white, that is the problem. With the topic at hand, getting hit in sparring class does not compare to being hit out on the streets. Dont be lulled into selfconfidence if someone 80 pounds heavier hits you and it doesnt hurt. Pad on pad does not and will never compare to barenuckle on flesh.
P
pknox
Guest
Very true. Perhaps I should have said "white belt level technique" instead.
The hitting without pads point is also true, but it seems most schools ready students in steps. Once they have come to grips with the pads, then the differences involving a "real" encounter can be dealt with. But if someone can't get over getting hit with pads, don't you think hitting them without them might just scare them away altogether?
Getting used to contact is something that has to be taken slowly IMO. I have seen many people in the arts that have a hard enough time being aggressive, let alone being able to take a shot.
Starting off slowly and gradually building up is probably the best way to go!
Mike
Starting off slowly and gradually building up is probably the best way to go!
Mike
something interesting that i noticed is that the more i worried about being hit, the more that i got hit!
Tensing up, hesitating instead of executing the technique on time, causes the thing that you are worried about to happen more often!
for me a key was also having an instructor that knew just how much force to use and when to step it up with me. a good teacher makes all of the difference.
Tensing up, hesitating instead of executing the technique on time, causes the thing that you are worried about to happen more often!
for me a key was also having an instructor that knew just how much force to use and when to step it up with me. a good teacher makes all of the difference.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
I agree that pad on pad is not the same as flesh on flesh. However, Damians question didn't specify whether the fear was getting hit in the Dojang or the street. I figured it was the Dojang because he is a TKD practitioner.
However, this is obsolete. When I said spar, I ment full contact with gloves in a controlled fashion.
If you understand the nature of fear, you realize that it does not differentiate well. It is a conditioned or psychological response that has been developed over time. For instance, My fiance' has a fear of spiders because in Western Michigan wetlands, where she grew up, her home was infested with very large brown wood spiders. She lived on a farm, and they would always manage to get in the house. I've seen the suckers myself, and they are the biggest spiders I've ever seen in Michigan...I didn't know they grew that big here! Anyways, to have a large spider crawl on you while your asleep, bite you, or what have you is a very violating experience. A violating experience then builds, because you don't want to have that experience again, into a fear. Then, that fear also builds, and becomes a conditioned response. If she see's a spider now, at this point, she can be paralized with fear. She has allowed herself to have been conditioned to have this response.
Anyways, I am having trouble explaining it, but basically all fear starts with a trigger. Usually it is within the persons imagination or logic or experience. I have a friend who won't swim in the ocean. She imagines the shark eating her like in the movie JAWS, and despite the probability that she will never be attacked by a shark, she is afraid. The thought of floating around in the ocean makes her feel almost a state of panic. Anyways, something triggers it, and the body developes a conditioned response due to this fear.
The conditioned response defy's logic, because it is in the body, not just the mind. It has nothing to do with the amount of danger involved. I've seen and heard accounts of a grown man who runs away in a fit of panic and tears at the site of a clown. I've seen a grown woman do the same at the site of chalk. It was on some T.V. special. None of this is logical, yet at some point a fear was triggered and they developed this conditioned response to that fear. Now, most people develop "healthy" fears...but these are conditioned responses just the same.
So, if someone is afraid of getting hit, which is a common thing, then they will develop a conditioned response based off this fear. Maybe it is curl up in a ball on the floor, or maybe it is to run. If during practice they can develop a different conditioned response other then fear, or a different conditioned response to their fear (such as attack when afraid) then they will be able to apply this on "the street". It won't matter if the gloves are on or off; if their conditioned response is to fight and to not worry if someone is striking at them, then they will respond this way on the street.
Where this falls apart is if the dynamics drastically change, putting them into the realm of the unknown, which causes fear to kick in. Example: if you are used to sparring people that you know, you might freeze if you don't know the person. Or perhaps you'll freeze if the person is much larger then the people you usually fight. Or if there is more then one, or if there is a weapon, you might freeze. Or perhaps your fine until that 1st punch connects to your jaw, and since you've never felt that before you now are in a state off panic. This can be worked through, however, by diversifying your practice, and mentally preparing your students by helping them to understand that anything could occur on "the street."
Bottom line: Fear is only a conditioned response. If you re-condition yourself to respond differently then fear, or differently TO fear if you become afraid (such as attack as opposed to freeze up), then you will better off for self defense purposes. I believe that practicing to recondition your mind/body through realistic training is the answer. If it wasn't the answer, then I don't think most of us would be training.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
I'm with Mike, this time. It's a mistake to think that one sudden insight, one clever bit of training, one moment of unpadded sparring will do the trick.
It takes a long time...and in fact, fear of getting hit never fully goes away, I think. At least not in rational people...
It takes a long time...and in fact, fear of getting hit never fully goes away, I think. At least not in rational people...
OP
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #14
Eggman, so what are you saying? Contact training in a martial arts school is a waste of time because it doesn't compare to being hit on the street so nothing can help you... period? I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding your point.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
C
clapping_tiger
Guest
I agree that getting hit with pads or gloves is different than getting hit with bare knuckles, but keep in mind the only real difference is that with bare knuckles you have a higher chance of getting cut. But the shock of the punch or the kick comes from the power of the strike. So whether or not you have gear on, a knockout punch or kick is still the same. As a matter of fact a gloves main purpose is to protect your hands. There have been many arguments in the NHB arena that bare knuckles are actually more safe than wearing gloves because a person will hold back on their blow for the fear of pain of their knuckles on an opponents teeth, cheek bone, or top of the head, ect.
Anyway my opinion to overcome the fear of getting hit is to get hit. But like it was already stated in a controlled match with someone you trust that has that control. Eventually you may come to look forward to those slugfests. I would rather have someone who is afraid to get hit get hit in class and know what to expect, than to have the first time they really get hit hard to be in the street and it catches them totally by surprise. I think this goes for a lot of women too, who are serious about self defense. Most women (and men too) have not been in any scraps in their youth and getting hit is very scary, especially in the face. But if you ever need to really defend yourself, chances are you will get hit. I think that in learning self defense getting hit is the smart thing to do. You work on pain management, and you know how your body will react.
Anyway my opinion to overcome the fear of getting hit is to get hit. But like it was already stated in a controlled match with someone you trust that has that control. Eventually you may come to look forward to those slugfests. I would rather have someone who is afraid to get hit get hit in class and know what to expect, than to have the first time they really get hit hard to be in the street and it catches them totally by surprise. I think this goes for a lot of women too, who are serious about self defense. Most women (and men too) have not been in any scraps in their youth and getting hit is very scary, especially in the face. But if you ever need to really defend yourself, chances are you will get hit. I think that in learning self defense getting hit is the smart thing to do. You work on pain management, and you know how your body will react.
cali_tkdbruin
Master of Arts
From my own experience, I've been most apprehensive and anxious about being hit prior to the actual conflict, and just pondering the thought. However, after the scraps begin and the brawl is on, all of my apprehension and fear of getting hit goes out the window.
I guess I'm thinking in my mind at that moment, "If I'm gonna get blasted, I'm getting blasted, no time to worry now, just protect yourself R., and maybe give some too"...
I guess I'm thinking in my mind at that moment, "If I'm gonna get blasted, I'm getting blasted, no time to worry now, just protect yourself R., and maybe give some too"...
A
Astra
Guest
I don't have the fear of getting hit much. At a pretty young age, the first time I did real stand-up fighting, I had no gear other then gloves. My first match I was knocked out, and that is probably the biggest thing that eliminated my fear of beeing hit.
Plus I have this really nice instructor who tells me to be more aggressive, even when I'm already at 101%. So I just accept the fact that I will get most likely get hit
Plus I have this really nice instructor who tells me to be more aggressive, even when I'm already at 101%. So I just accept the fact that I will get most likely get hit
When I was much (much) younger the "in" thing to do was to stage fights in the school bathroom. These fights were often just two guys going at it for the heck of it, other times it was to settle a grudge or just an ego thing. I won some, I lost some, I had my posterior handed to me on a couple of occasions. Later, while in boot camp I had a DI knock me off my feet with a punch to the face (I didn't get my shirt on fast enough) My boot camp graduation picture shows the swelling. In my MA training I've always been known for going all out and enjoying working with the folks that go all out as well.... My point, your wondering... even after a life time of getting hit and hit hard there is still a part of me that "fears" being hit. It's like Paul said, it's a conditioned response, it's the human survival instinct. The fear doesn't make me freeze or curl up in a ball or run away. It does however tell the adrenal glands to kick into over drive. A certain amount of fear, IMO, is a good thing. It keeps you from acting so rashly that common sense goes out the window.
I disagree with Paul that the "fear" of getting hit is conditioned. EVERYONE is afraid of getting hit to some extent. You have to have been hit to get conditioned to it, or have seen it and somehow it been identified as adversive. Guys wrestle as kids and tend to be a little more physical than most girls, that plus socialized aggression, a glut of testosterone at a certain age, in the studio, the fear of how other's perceive you, etc. lead to guys tending to be a little more aggressive ... generally. This translates to being more comfortable with "hitting" even with gloves.
I, in no case, believe in "getting out there and banging away" to get used to getting hit. That just reinforces not liking getting hit ... unless you have this real aggressive personality anyway. It is more of a TEST, of guts, conditioning, intelligence, (stupidity), who knows what else?
OK, a couple of other things: I think you were talking about your "fear of being hit", not neccessarily the conditioning needed to be hit repetitivly. That is a completely separate issue that you will always have to work on, and/or pad appropriately. It is a part of being a "Warrior" to have some degree of condioning and contact, ... if that is part of your system. Work ABS, then work them some more.
Find a guard position or two that you like, that can cover the body but still effectively allow you to respond. This is range contingent. I also believe in bag work for conditioning (and see below.)
I believe in a nice systematic (desensitization) approach to help students control their fear, if not actually change it over time.
1. Controlling the flinch response (having a partner, whom you trust to not actually hit you), put you up against a wall and throw slow punches or kicks without making contact. They need to focus their strikes a couple of inches from your face and 1" from your body (at first.) Over a period of weeks or months, they speed up. The goal? Keep your eyes open, don't move your head. Don't worry, you are probably not the only one flinching away in class, if this is the issue for you. You will get through this in a couple of weeks probably. I know my old TKD teacher had me against a wall throwing full power kicks and stikes for several classes before I started being able to trust I would not be hit unless he wanted to hit me.
2. Learn to USE the flinch response: add a check, block or parry to the flinch. You are now retraining the flinch response to something useful. Let your head move, and hands, slow down the attack again, make sure you keep your eyes on your partner ALL THE TIME!
3. Start some bag work simultaneously with the above. Get used to hitting, it gives you a perspective from the other side. Learn your control, work light contact, (surface focus), then medium contact (2" - 4" in the bag), then move to heavy committed contact. You will then know what others, and yourself are capable of control-wise and power-wise.
4. Add in some slow rhythym sparring, alternating defense with offense. Nothing hard yet, nothing to be afraid of. You are trying to learn to relax and use some of #1 and #2 above.
5. Light contact rounds with pads to the body only may be the next step. Then moderate contact to the body and light to the head (with headgear and mouthpiece of course.)
6. Only then would I progress to full contact (body or body & head.) It is not for everyone, but can be very beneficial for conditioning and knowing your own limits. This is not required by most schools or systems, because even padded and limiting targets, when you do enough of it, you get better, but sheer repetition means you get hurt some ... hopefully not injured, but hurt.
Go for it, start slow, you are on nobody's time schedule but your own. A good partner is the best thing you can find, hopefully higher ranking or more time in grade, so that there are none of those little "slips" you get when working with white belts or beginners. The only time I have been "Injured" was by beginners when I had to slow down and teach them target acquisition.
Good Luck,
-Michael
I, in no case, believe in "getting out there and banging away" to get used to getting hit. That just reinforces not liking getting hit ... unless you have this real aggressive personality anyway. It is more of a TEST, of guts, conditioning, intelligence, (stupidity), who knows what else?
OK, a couple of other things: I think you were talking about your "fear of being hit", not neccessarily the conditioning needed to be hit repetitivly. That is a completely separate issue that you will always have to work on, and/or pad appropriately. It is a part of being a "Warrior" to have some degree of condioning and contact, ... if that is part of your system. Work ABS, then work them some more.
Find a guard position or two that you like, that can cover the body but still effectively allow you to respond. This is range contingent. I also believe in bag work for conditioning (and see below.)
I believe in a nice systematic (desensitization) approach to help students control their fear, if not actually change it over time.
1. Controlling the flinch response (having a partner, whom you trust to not actually hit you), put you up against a wall and throw slow punches or kicks without making contact. They need to focus their strikes a couple of inches from your face and 1" from your body (at first.) Over a period of weeks or months, they speed up. The goal? Keep your eyes open, don't move your head. Don't worry, you are probably not the only one flinching away in class, if this is the issue for you. You will get through this in a couple of weeks probably. I know my old TKD teacher had me against a wall throwing full power kicks and stikes for several classes before I started being able to trust I would not be hit unless he wanted to hit me.
2. Learn to USE the flinch response: add a check, block or parry to the flinch. You are now retraining the flinch response to something useful. Let your head move, and hands, slow down the attack again, make sure you keep your eyes on your partner ALL THE TIME!
3. Start some bag work simultaneously with the above. Get used to hitting, it gives you a perspective from the other side. Learn your control, work light contact, (surface focus), then medium contact (2" - 4" in the bag), then move to heavy committed contact. You will then know what others, and yourself are capable of control-wise and power-wise.
4. Add in some slow rhythym sparring, alternating defense with offense. Nothing hard yet, nothing to be afraid of. You are trying to learn to relax and use some of #1 and #2 above.
5. Light contact rounds with pads to the body only may be the next step. Then moderate contact to the body and light to the head (with headgear and mouthpiece of course.)
6. Only then would I progress to full contact (body or body & head.) It is not for everyone, but can be very beneficial for conditioning and knowing your own limits. This is not required by most schools or systems, because even padded and limiting targets, when you do enough of it, you get better, but sheer repetition means you get hurt some ... hopefully not injured, but hurt.
Go for it, start slow, you are on nobody's time schedule but your own. A good partner is the best thing you can find, hopefully higher ranking or more time in grade, so that there are none of those little "slips" you get when working with white belts or beginners. The only time I have been "Injured" was by beginners when I had to slow down and teach them target acquisition.
Good Luck,
-Michael
