The Bible does not condemn self defense
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
- Start date
Ok, so where does the bible draw the line, slaps are OK according to your original interpretation, when is OK to throw down? Does the Bible give us a literal use of force continuum? When is it OK to use "any and every means?"
hoshin1600
Senior Master
This thread is going to be like a car wreck and I just can't help but watch.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Ok. This is the passage.
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
Which taken literally suggests there is no reason to engage in violent self defence.
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
Which taken literally suggests there is no reason to engage in violent self defence.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
Thing is PG, you're not the sole audience for threads that you post. There are people from all kinds of backgrounds all over the world reading this. Think about their perspectives rather than your own.
What's a waste of time to you is perfectly valid discussion to others.
On topic, I'm not religious, partly because I believe religion causes violence. What any of the Bibles or religious texts have to say about self defence or violence is only of interest to me in the sense that it gives me an appreciation of what I might be dealing with in an opponent. I don't view discussion of that as wasted time.
So, you personally believe that bats are birds, that masturbation and tattoos are sins, and you do not seek medical care when you're sick, right?
You dodged this earlier. If the statement above is not correct, then you, sir, are a hypocrite. Because each and every one of those things is straight out of the Christian bible. A biblical literalist MUST believe all of those things.
I would really LOVE to see you provide some evidence to support any of the claims in this idiotic statement. Lefties are not exactly new, and there is absolutely zero reason to think that there were no lefties 2000 years ago. After that, you can take a stab at explaining how you determined how one type of slap is "lower" than another.
I do like a weird thread in the morning, so ...well, silly.
I've never heard such nonsense as with slapped with the back of the right hand being a big insult and these presumably are my people you are talking about? I have a really good grasp of history of the Jewish people, well I would wouldn't I. Really you need to get your head out of television programmes and comic books and come into the real world.
I've never heard such nonsense as with slapped with the back of the right hand being a big insult and these presumably are my people you are talking about? I have a really good grasp of history of the Jewish people, well I would wouldn't I. Really you need to get your head out of television programmes and comic books and come into the real world.
Cirdan
Senior Master
@PhotonGuy
I have read your complaints of tangential posting by others previously.. Since there seem to be a pattern of confusion and disarray in your thread-creation and skills in guiding of discussions you initiate, might the cause of your troubles be that you have NOT CLEARLY DEFINED the point and purpose of your thread?? Here that seems true. I would not know quite exactly what I would be replying to. It is a statement you have made kind of like Siri on my iphone would have made before I killed it.. sort of clever and but sort of dumb too..
SELF-REFLECT! That is what you can do! It is not too late by far. You are young. You have said so. So you have ample time. Self-reflect and see the confusion is not the cause of others and but the cause of you not defining and thinking out these statements before posting.
I have read your complaints of tangential posting by others previously.. Since there seem to be a pattern of confusion and disarray in your thread-creation and skills in guiding of discussions you initiate, might the cause of your troubles be that you have NOT CLEARLY DEFINED the point and purpose of your thread?? Here that seems true. I would not know quite exactly what I would be replying to. It is a statement you have made kind of like Siri on my iphone would have made before I killed it.. sort of clever and but sort of dumb too..
SELF-REFLECT! That is what you can do! It is not too late by far. You are young. You have said so. So you have ample time. Self-reflect and see the confusion is not the cause of others and but the cause of you not defining and thinking out these statements before posting.
. Not sure you will understand this but here you go anyway. How and When Was the Torah Written - Questions Answers
About the King James Bible, it's not a case of 'believing' anything, it's an historical fact that it was translated as it was, there are documents in the British national Archives proving it. This is from a Christian site where they have reason to use the King James version and even they record the political and religious thoughts behind the translation. Story Behind King James Bible
Xtians have problems with translations and which is the most 'accurate' and which is the 'best'.
5 Tips for Picking the Best Bible Translation
PG you have unwittingly opened a can of worms here!
Oooh, boy.
Here's the scripture:
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matthew 5:38-42,KJV
Where it's part of the Sermon on the Mount-in Luke, it's part of the injunction to "love your enemies." This is important: at that time, "your enemies," for Jesus's principally Hebrew audience, were the Romans.
It's said by some that at that time, striking those perceived to be of a lower class was done with the back of the hand to assert authority-thus, the Romans would strike Hebrews with the back of the hand- and used their left hand for "unclean purposes," that is to say, to wipe their asses....if they were confronted by a Hebrew who turned their cheek, they were confounded: presented with a dilemma whereby they could strike with their open hand or fist:treating the Hebrew as an equal-in fact, the entire Sermon on the Mount is somewhat politically subversive in nature.
It also-since it's coupled with the verse from Deuteronomy about "an eye for an eye"-could be an injunction against vengeance, rather than self-defense. People used the verse from Deuteronomy to justify vengeance-thus the "you have heard it said, rather than the more conventional, "it is written" when referencing scripture.
It's also worth noting (for those who seem to think it's some sort of pacifist statement) that Jesus doesn't say to stand there and keep turning your cheek-he's pretty specific about the act.
Lastly, we have to note that Jesus told his followers this:
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”Luke 22:36
Amazing to me how some people "read" the Bible, without actually READING the Bible.
I would have to see scripture that makes those claims. Can you reference such scripture?
Dodging questions is an option. Something you should realize if you get tired of answering my same questions over and over again as you put it. If you get tired of that you do have the option of not answering and ignoring what I say altogether, you do realize that don't you?
Come to think of it you made it clear that you don't believe the Bible so I don't see why Im wasting my time answering this.
Im never said left handed people didn't exist back then. I said in that culture everything was done with the right hand and if you happened to be left handed you would try to convert. Up to recent times there've still been cultures that function like that. Even in the modern American society, although its more left handed friendly than some of the ancient cultures, there are some things done exclusively with the right hand such as handshakes and salutes no matter what your handedness.
I don't think the Bible says anything about masturbation, but the tattoo is directly mentioned in Leviticus. Leviticus 19:28
But if you follow everything said in Leviticus, you probably live a pretty odd lifestyle in the modern age. No mixed textiles in your cloth, the death penalty for taking the Lord's name in vain, no bacon, slavery is OK as long as the slaves come from other nations, shellfish is right out, and you can't cut your hair,
What the heck is an Xtian?
X is the Greek letter “chi,” the initial letter in the word Χριστός. Χριστός means “Christ.” X has been an acceptable representation of the word “Christ” for hundreds of years. This device is known as a Christogram. The dignified terms Xpian and Xtian have long been used in place of the word “Christian.”
I see. I have never heard that before.
Quite right. And for that reason I am going to ignore posts that I don't consider valid discussion and those that do consider them valid discussion, they can discuss to their heart's content.
So you are basically closing your mind to the possibility that you could learn something from anyone else's posts.
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