Testing your Skill Level ?

[michaeledward]

Tess posted something about 'confidence' ... and in my response, I was going to say something about how skilled I am versus how skilled I think I am; and of course, we have the colored belt system that should say something about our skill level.

How can you truly determine your skill level? How can you measure it against other Martial Practitioners? How can you measure it against the general population?

I have heard rumors of some very experienced Kenpoists will go out on the town hoping to, or looking to, pick a fight ... just to see how really good they are . . . would you ever do that?

Sure, we can put on the protective gear and step into a ring and have someone wave a flag or earn a trophy, but is that really testing our skill levels?

Mike

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by michaeledward
...I was going to say something about how skilled I am versus how skilled I think I am; and of course, we have the colored belt system that should say something about our skill level.

And obviously the belts don't always tell the truth. When I was training in TKD there were a couple of students from another local school that were just phenominal. As green belts they won many numerous tournaments and their skill level was incredible. As far as fighting wise they were much better than I was but yet my instructor thought I was worthy enough of wearing a black belt. Should I have been ranked that far ahead of them :idunno: .

How can you truly determine your skill level?

In my opinion it will be your students who show your knowledge, skill, and abilities to continue the art.

How can you measure it against other Martial Practitioners?

Extremely tough. If you are comparing kenpo to other arts it should be better and more complex. That is just my opinion.

How can you measure it against the general population?

Again that's a very tough question to answer. Maybe someone on here with more knowledge than me can answer these last 2 questions better than me.

I have heard rumors of some very experienced Kenpoists will go out on the town hoping to, or looking to, pick a fight ... just to see how really good they are . . . would you ever do that?

I wouldn't because I'm perfectly fine here in my own home.

Sure, we can put on the protective gear and step into a ring and have someone wave a flag or earn a trophy, but is that really testing our skill levels?

In some aspects I say yes.:asian:

 

[FiveSwords]

How can you measure it against the general population?

My instructor tells us a story about something SGM Parker said to one of his students once: (paraphrasing)

"After 6 months of training, you will be able to hold your own against 9 out of 10 guys on the street. But for that 10th guy, you will have to train for the rest of your life."

Moral of the story: You never know who that 10th guy will be. :asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by FiveSwords
Moral of the story: You never know who that 10th guy will be. :asian:

I like that!:asian:

 

[Disco]

How can you determine your skill level?

Answer: You really can't, Unless you have to put it on the line for real.

How can you measure it against other Martial Artists?

Answer: Only in the ring under controled conditions. Now this opens other arguments I know, but put it in this perspective. If it's not in the ring, then it will be for real. That takes it out of context for an examination of skill and puts it into a survival mode. I know, and I'm sure you know some people that train and really don't look all that good doing it. But we all know that it dosen't have to look pretty to be affective. If it's in the ring, then it becomes a test of athleticism and we all know that we are not created equal physically.

Against the general population

Answer: You better a step or two or more above the average citizen. A street punk/fighter, you most certainly should be better.
If you don't think your not, then you've trained and studied for nothing and whatever/whoever you trained in/with did a lousy job.

:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

How about visiting the boxing gym and see how you hold up under their rules; then go to a BJJ school and see how you fare. Vale Tudo tournaments are as close as you come. The adreniline, the fear, the fight.

Get outside your box. You don't have to go test yourself on the street. I see this as a highly irresponsible suggestion and one that can get you killed or in jail. :rofl:

(so did I tell you the one about the attorney getting arrested and going to jail? You just don't want to go there.)

Work with Sigung LaBounty on some Guts or Survival drills. Check out some full contact schools or even a serious Judo dojo.

I can think of lots of ways of testing myself without going and finding a fight. I don't have to shoot someone to know how how to draw, aim and fire. Live simulations in hot rooms will do it. Sucessive approximations of reality get you as ready as you can be for the reality.

Train, Train, Train some more, then go get outside your box. Come back and evaluate what you learned and apply solutions or remedies as needed. Problem solve logically with training partners, then pattern in the responses.

Good Luck. :asian:

 

[Zoran]

It's a very good question you ask.

Testing ones skill as a Kenpoist would involve testing our skill according to what we train for. Which is self defense.

So how do you test your skills then?
Since we train for a life and death street confrontation, you can't use any of the Martial Arts sports as a test. All that shows is your skill in that particular sport period. If you step into a boxing ring, you will see how you fare within that particular set of rules and you are testing your skills as a boxer.

So can you test your skills?
Legally and morally the answer would have to be NO. The only thing that can happen is you could have your skills tested. This is not your choice. If you are attacked, or protecting another from an attack your skills may be tested. However, looking for this type of confrontation would not just be morally and legally wrong, it can be very dagerous.

There are police officers, soldiers, bouncers, bodyguards, and etc., that may have their self defense skills tested. This could happen as a part of their job. However, even in those types of jobs, it is preferrable not to get into that sort of situation. However, it can be more likely that it will happen as those jobs usually puts you in more aggressive situations than the average citizen.

 

[Goldendragon7]

I for sure am not going to test my skills against Billings!!!!!!! He is the Texas Tornado!! (and yes, I have felt his punch)!! ouch..

:asian:

 

[MisterMike]

And let's not forget about the butterflies you'll have.

On the street, there may not be anyone to stop the 'match.' Knowing this going into it, you'll have a completely different mindset than sayyyyy, sparring in class.

You may be the fastest at your school at parrying those combinations coming at you, but add to it now, yelling, surprise, psychological aspects, and you may not fair so well.

 

[Kempo Guy]

Get a body armor similar to Tony Blauer's "High Gear" and go at it against real resistance. Imho, that's the closest you can get to a "real fight". Although there's some padding the impact is felt and there is still a chance of a knockout (I've seen it happen).

Simulating fights with the verbal posturing helps a lot. Staging "micro fights" will kick your fear reactivity into high gear.

It will always be a "simulation"...

KG

 

[Seig]

I do things like when I see one of my students in public, if they don't see me:
I walk up behind them and grab or attack them.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Seig
I do things like when I see one of my students in public, if they don't see me:
I walk up behind them and grab or attack them.

Some day you're gonna get a :btg: from one of them or scare the:fart: out of them.....

:rofl:

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Some day you're gonna get a :btg: from one of them or scare the:fart: out of them.....

:rofl:

If I get a successfull :btg: thenI know I have trained them well. If they :fart: themselves, then I know they need more work.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by Seig
If I get a successfull :btg: thenI know I have trained them well. If they :fart: themselves, then I know they need more work.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

 

[LadyDragon]

I don't go around looking for a fight. And personally, I couldn't understand why anyone would put themselves in harms way to see how good they are in their particular art.

If you get caught in a situation, and you have no choice but to fight your way out, and you survive. Then you know that your training has been worth while. Standing in a ring and playing patty cake with someone and winning a trophy means nothing.

You train for yourself and the love of your art, not to be able to go around picking fights. But again, if you have no choice, by all means defend yourself, and I mean just that DEFEND yourself.

 

[MisterMike]

I don't go around looking for a fight. And personally, I couldn't understand why anyone would put themselves in harms way to see how good they are in their particular art.

Right on! In reality, most of us aren't even going to get a chance to use a Kenpo technique to defend ourselves. I'm sure that there are some statistics out there that depending on where you live, your odds are higher of being assaulted or mugged, but where I'm from, I don't see it happening. Andif someone in my old school were constantly coming in with battle scars, we'd be a bit weary of his character.

So to me, this sort of makes "self-defense" a bit over-rated, no?

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy
Get a body armor similar to Tony Blauer's "High Gear" and go at it against real resistance. Imho, that's the closest you can get to a "real fight". Although there's some padding the impact is felt and there is still a chance of a knockout (I've seen it happen).

Simulating fights with the verbal posturing helps a lot. Staging "micro fights" will kick your fear reactivity into high gear.

It will always be a "simulation"...

KG

Those suits are awesome!!! They definately give you the chance to go all out w/o the other guy getting hurt. Putting yourself into a stressfull situation during training, is going to help you get used to that adrenalin rush, so if you find yourself in a life/death situation, your body will react better.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by LadyDragon
I don't go around looking for a fight. And personally, I couldn't understand why anyone would put themselves in harms way to see how good they are in their particular art.

If you get caught in a situation, and you have no choice but to fight your way out, and you survive. Then you know that your training has been worth while. Standing in a ring and playing patty cake with someone and winning a trophy means nothing.

You train for yourself and the love of your art, not to be able to go around picking fights. But again, if you have no choice, by all means defend yourself, and I mean just that DEFEND yourself.

I dont think that it has anything to do with picking a fight. Instead, it has to do with making sure that you will be able to defend yourself. If you dont include any realism or aliveness in your training, then how can you be sure that the art that you've spent the last x number of years learning, is going to help you??

Do you need to look for a fight to do this? No. Instead, as I said above, training with realism and putting yourself into the stressful situations while in the dojo, will be a huge plus for you if you need to defend yourself on the street.

Mike

 

[Kempo Guy]

MJS,

Yeah, the "high gear" suits are sweet. However, you can still get hurt.


Ladydragon,

I'm not sure whether or not you were directing your comments to my post but I think a lot can be learned from suiting up and simulating an encounter as it probably will teach you more about yourself than a year 'playing tag' in the studio or flapping your arms against a 'willing' partner.

I'll provide an example of the type of training I'm referring to.

A while back we were doing a simulation where the "victim" was at an ATM (ok, so we pretended it was an ATM). Anyway, the simulation started with another guy (the would be attacker) walking up to him. After a verbal exchange between the two (the attacker was distracting him) another guy, the accomplice, came up behind the victim who was unaware this was going to happen. Now this is where things will get interesting...
The accomplice rushed the victim for a takedown from behind. (Keep in mind all the participants are wearing "armor" and this is 'anything goes' type of training). Somehow the victim managed to free himself (it wasn't pretty) and managed to cut the first guy off in mid-stride with a heelpalm strike to the helmet (it knocked the guy out)... he managed to distract the accomplice enough to get out of the 'area'.

As you can see, this has very little to do with playing 'patty cake'.
I agree with the statement that one trains for oneself and because you enjoy doing it. However if you are serious about DEFENDING yourself, you should take the precautionary steps and train to defend yourself by training alive against fully resistant opponents.

As mentioned by MisterMike, the chances that anyone is going to get attacked are rather slim, much less being able to use your chosen art. However many people are under the illusion that they can actually defend themselves which in many cases are not the case (even with many years of training).

KG

 

[LadyDragon]

I do agree that your training should be done as realistic as possible. But that still doesn't mean going out on the street and looking to pick a fight with someone just to prove that your good in MA's. MA's should be use only when its needed. It isn't something that should be abused by whom ever it is that has the ma's knowledge.

Putting a training partner in some type of body armor and having all at it with them is fabulous. But being put in a ring to try and earn points for a trophy is going to prove nothing about your ma's ability. All it shows is that you're the faster and probably luckier of the two people in the ring at that particular time.

I love the ma's and would hate to hear of someone in my school or any where for that matter abusing of their ma's knowledge. But I do know that it happens all the time. If you ask me, those are the type of people that give ma's a bad name.