Terribly new to this direction of training- need help if anyone can!

[lhall13]

I've recently started looking for a Kenjutsu(?)-ryu for training. I'm well aware that there are multiple types of ryu out there but i'm at a lost to understand the difference. Theres a ryu in St. Petersburg, Florida but thats a horrible drive for me : ( Going back to previously said about other schools- what are the differences, due to my lack of understanding, with Iaido to Mushin no Shin Aikido, and etc. I am tearing up the internet looking for JJJ and a Kenjutsu school as close to Brandon, Florida as possible. Is there anyone by some sort of dumb luck that would happen to know? I'm surrounded by BJJ and don't know what I'm looking at as far as Kenjutsu is concerned-help is extremely appreciated!


LDH

 

[Ken Morgan]

Good luck trying to find kenjitsu anywhere, very few people train in it. Mostly you'll find folks training in iai and kendo with some kenjitsu thrown in for something different to do.

Here is a link to the All United States Kendo Federation, http://www.auskf.org/index.htm

Go to the dojo listings and see what you come up with. Very few people train in the Japanese Sword arts, many times you will have to drive long distances to practice.

 

[billc]

Why are you looking to train in Kenjutsu?

 

[lhall13]

@Ken- Thanks for the link! Correct me if im wrong in my reading but is kendo more of a sport? I have a kendo dojo at the USF facility
@Bill- when I lived in Ishikawa City in Okinawa I became fascinated with not only the over all culture of the place but when I took a hop to mainland Japan I saw what I was told kenjutsu being practiced. I'm just highly fascinated with the idea of learning sword fighting although I don't have a fantasy of wielding a katana anytime soon in downtown Tampa to fight the zombie-pocalypse. More than anything I'd like to just add to my study of Yoshukai Karate

 

[Ken Morgan]

The Kendo Federation link I sent will have links to dojos that teach Kendo, iaido, jodo and naginata.

Firstly though…see what’s close to you and go pay them a visit, watch and ask questions, see what fits you better. Visit a kendo club, and then visit an iaido club and see what one looks most interesting for you.

There is an argument to be made that kendo is more of a sport, but I don’t believe it is.

BTW the kendo federation is just an umbrella organisation that looks after the four martial arts i mentioned in the first line, it doesn't mean that every club does kendo.

 

[Chris Parker]

Despite my discussions with Ken about the finer details of differences between sword methods, Ryu, approaches, etc, in this regard, from the standpoint of someone with no experience, they really are all the same (just to make you happy, Ken!). The benefits of each are pretty much the same, but certain approaches may appeal more than others. For instance, I train in two Kenjutsu systems and an Iai system (all Koryu), as well as other systems that have Kenjutsu in them. I have also been given the opportunity to visit other systems, and the ones that I train in were chosen because they are the ones who's approach really appeal to me and my personality, I deliberately and consciously didn't accept training in others. So the best bet is to visit as many options as are around you, and see what "calls" to you. You may be surprised to find that what appeals most is Iaido... or Kendo. Or Jodo (as you learn sword as the attacker).

It may be a modern (Seitei, or Atarashii [for Naginata]), or old (Koryu), but if you are looking at Koryu, then be prepared properly for it. And the first step to understanding what Koryu is all about is reading the following article from Dave Lowry: http://shutokukan.org/join_the_ryu.html Read it a number of times before you decide that this is something you're interested in.

Now that you've read that, here's the good news.

You haven't said where you are, exactly, but St Petersburg and Tampa, Florida, have been mentioned, so my guess is that you're not too removed from there. And Tampa Bay seems to have a dojo of Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Heiho (Kenjutsu) one of the two official Ryu-ha of the Tokugawa Shogunate. This is one of the most famous and respected sword schools you can find, and if you have to travel an hour or two to get there, all I can say is that that is a short trip compared to many who train in such things. Their listing is found here: http://www.yagyu-ryu.org/tampa.shtml, and frankly, you will be hard pressed to find a more reputable system, particularly around your area. This is a system people travel across the world to train in, so you know.

PS This is one of the systems that Dave Lowry, author of the above article, teaches, as does Meik Skoss, a highly respected individual in Koryu circles. Just so you know....

 

[Ken Morgan]

Find a place that is easiest to get to for you, if you find more than one, visit, ask questions and try it out. Don’t worry about the different schools or styles at this point in time. Once you find a school/style, after six months it will be the best style/school in the world, and everyone else practices something inferior.

Because of the risk of annoying my friend Chris, and sparking a debate we do not want to have, I will back off and say nothing about Lowry or Skoss.
:uhyeah:
Another source for material, http://ejmas.com/tin/tinframe.htm Tonnes of articles to read on the JSA.

 

[Chris Parker]

Agreed with all of that, really. Seeing all the options you can is the best plan. Logan, you may have the idea of Kenjutsu being something you're interested in (in which case I would highly recommend getting in contact with the Shinkage Ryu Dojo), but it may not be exactly what you're expecting, or really wanting. So look around, Iai may be perfect for you... or, considering the workout and competitive nature, you may find Kendo is your ideal. Read through as many of the articles as grab you that Ken linked as well, it'll help you form your questions as much as anything else.

Oh, and Ken? Don't be too concerned about annoying me that way, I'm pretty sure of what you'd be talking about....

Oh, and just as an addendum, reading through the Japanese Sword Arts and Koryu Corner sections of this forum can help a lot too....

 

[Langenschwert]

Really, any well-instructed sword art (Japanese or otherwise) will do. If you really want to do authentic kenjutsu, you're probably going to have to travel. Many people (including myself) go much farther than a "terrible drive" for kenjutsu training. Anything less than two or three hours is a mere quick jaunt.

Just beware of anything calling itself a "samurai school" or whatnot. There are tons of bogus sword schools out there trying to capitalize on the desire of the unwary for all things Japanese. Hucksters abound, and the real deal is hard to find. Good luck in your search!

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[lhall13]

Thanks everyone for the feed back- extremely appreciated!

 

[billc]

Allow me to put in a plug for the Filipino martial arts. Depending on what you are looking for in Kenjutsu, and wether or not you can find a school near you, you might want to look into the fma. They are also weapon oriented arts, with different types of the art broken down into stick or blade based. You begin weapon training from the first class, you learn how to use blades, sticks, and knives as well as empty hand striking and grappling. Quite a few of the teachers you may encounter may not be that far removed from the men who used the arts for self-defense against other stick and swordmen in the Phillipines as well as having fought against the swords and bayonets of the japanese during World War 2. Look up the arts Kali Ilustrisimo, and Dekiti Tirsia Sirada, sword based arts, or modern arnis, balintawak stick based arts on youtube. You could also look over at FMAtalk.com, a sister site, and check out the various highlighted styles in the fma. It would be hard to find weapons based arts that take you right into the most practical aspects of surviving with sticks, and knives as you fing in the FMA. You may not find the ceremony that is associated with the japanese sword arts, but the training can't be beat.

 

[billc]

Something to check out, kali ilustrisimo, one of the blade based FMA on video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZfmBS1EyhA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrJ4ZwJ28m8&feature=related

Keep in mind, Master Ilustrisimo is 70 years or older in the video. He was also a proven fighter who used the art in a lot of fights, some of which did not end well for his opponents.

Here you have Lameco escrima with its founder Edgar Sulite. Lameco is a stick based art with sword work thrown in.

 

[Chris Parker]

Bill? The gent is asking about Japanese sword methods, perhaps we deal with that here? The FMA stuff may be great, and you may enjoy it, but that's not what he's after. Oh, and speaking personally, I don't see much in the way of similarity between them, the mindset and approach is fundamentally different in many ways, with most similarities being rather superficial.

 

[billc]

He is beginning to look for a sword art, in particular Kenjutsu, but as has been pointed out, it will be somewhat difficult to find. He has been told about iaido, and kendo, but there are other sword art options out there that he may not be familiar with since he seems to be just starting out. He may think the only options for sword arts are western (olympic style) fencing and the japanese arts but there are FMA that are just as interesting and practical and use swords. Since he is looking for kenjutsu, it seems he is looking for an art that teaches how to use the sword in combat. Iaido doesn't quite fill the bill, and although that leaves kendo, it is an art heavily influenced by sport. The pre-war kendo that emphasizes actual fighting is probably only found here in chicago or in japan. Even chicago is a bit of a trip on a weekly or monthly basis from florida. So, combat oriented blade arts, if that is what he is looking for leave a small number of options here in the states. The FMA are combat arts with the sword or stick. If he can't find a japanese art, it gives him a direction to look in that he may not have thought of. I have done iaido and the fma. If you are looking for combat skills, not necessarily because you anticipate fighting to the death with a sword, but because that is where your interests lie, iaido may not be the best choice. Only he will know what he really wants to do in the end, I am giving him something to think about. He will let me know if he doesn't like the thoughts on the fma. Thanks for the input though.

Bill Cihak

 

[billc]

Also, if he can't find kendo in his area, he could try kumdo, the korean sword art that is virtually identical to kendo.

 

[Chris Parker]

No, Bill, let's take it from the beginning.

I've recently started looking for a Kenjutsu(?)-ryu for training. I'm well aware that there are multiple types of ryu out there but i'm at a lost to understand the difference. Theres a ryu in St. Petersburg, Florida but thats a horrible drive for me : ( Going back to previously said about other schools- what are the differences, due to my lack of understanding, with Iaido to Mushin no Shin Aikido, and etc. I am tearing up the internet looking for JJJ and a Kenjutsu school as close to Brandon, Florida as possible. Is there anyone by some sort of dumb luck that would happen to know? I'm surrounded by BJJ and don't know what I'm looking at as far as Kenjutsu is concerned-help is extremely appreciated!


LDH

You may note that there is no mention of generic long-bladed weapon use, Logan is specifically asking about Kenjutsu. He is not just asking about swordsmanship, he is asking specifically about Kenjutsu. That's really the end of it.

However, you asked:

Why are you looking to train in Kenjutsu?

Which is a valid question... but it seems (particularly now) that you only asked that so you could push FMA instead, despite that not being what was being asked for, and it not fitting with the reasons that Logan then gave you for wanting to find Kenjutsu. Let's review (bolding emphasis mine).

@Bill- when I lived in Ishikawa City in Okinawa I became fascinated with not only the over all culture of the place but when I took a hop to mainland Japan I saw what I was told kenjutsu being practiced. I'm just highly fascinated with the idea of learning sword fighting although I don't have a fantasy of wielding a katana anytime soon in downtown Tampa to fight the zombie-pocalypse. More than anything I'd like to just add to my study of Yoshukai Karate

So his reasons are that he is interested in the culture (although not only that aspect), which makes your point about FMA's and the lack of ceremony as found in the Japanese methods rather moot, as well as having some frame of reference that he enjoyed. Your points about use of sticks and blades (for defensive means) is also largely irrelevant to anyone looking to JSA systems as well, all in all making even the mention of FMA here out of place.

Oh, and for the record, Logan was given Kendo, Iaido, and a Koryu Kenjutsu system relatively close to him (which is what he was actually asking for...), not just Kendo and Iaido "which isn't easy to find".