Tell Me/MT About Instances Youve Personally Seen Of A Female Being Harmed By A Male

Zero

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To the first paragraph, it is a stretch. The only reason i suggested it was to try to offer a neutral ground, even if it is a bit unusual. :)
I can theorize that since Sydney does have some pretty rough nightlife after the bars close, it might just be an 'oh look, people making a scene. lets go hit stuff' situation, but thats delving into baseless speculation.

To the second, stats is exactly why i made this thread. Its going pretty well so far.

Oh so not even artsy Melbourne but "rough" Sydney is where this is all going on, I get it now. Should not Nocturnal's scenario then read: "Guy X sees Guy Q hit his boyfriend Guy Z and then Guy X..."
 
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Cyriacus

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It's been my consistent experience that people who are 40 now were once 30 and that people who are 30 now were, likewise, once 20. This used to be the only way but perhaps advances in technology have changed things. :p

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Not sure what youre getting at, but yes :)
Incidentally, from what ive seen older guys tend to be the ones out in the early hours of the morning daring people to make eye contact from a distance. But thats off topic...

Oh so not even artsy Melbourne but "rough" Sydney is where this is all going on, I get it now. Should not Nocturnal's scenario then read: "Guy X sees Guy Q hit his boyfriend Guy Z and then Guy X..."

Yes. Sure, why not :drink2tha
 

lklawson

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Not sure what youre getting at, but yes :)
I was just amused by his implication that old guys don't have the same experience because they're old; as if old guys were born old and had never been young guys strutting around trying to impress the chicks.

No one gets to be old without being young first, and, by then, they've got a lot more years of life full of "stuff happened" in their heads.

Incidentally, from what ive seen older guys tend to be the ones out in the early hours of the morning daring people to make eye contact from a distance. But thats off topic...
Say that to my face, I dare you. ;)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

pgsmith

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My experience in Sydney is pretty much the same as pgsmith's experiences in Texas. The only difference is: in Sydney, people only interfere (that may or may not end up in fights) when it's in a place frequented by young male in their 20s (bars, clubs, parties). People don't interfere in public transport or sidewalk or shopping malls, as those are not pick-up places.
That's interesting. In Texas, we are taught from a young age that women are not to be hit. :) That's the way my kids were taught also. I don't know so much how things are taught now since there's been a large influx of northerners over the last 10 years or so, but most Texans that I know won't hesitate to get involved, and it has nothing to do with picking up women.

I was just amused by his implication that old guys don't have the same experience because they're old; as if old guys were born old and had never been young guys strutting around trying to impress the chicks.
Hey! You say that as if us old guys no longer strut around trying to impress the ladies! :)
 
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Cyriacus

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I was just amused by his implication that old guys don't have the same experience because they're old; as if old guys were born old and had never been young guys strutting around trying to impress the chicks.

No one gets to be old without being young first, and, by then, they've got a lot more years of life full of "stuff happened" in their heads.

Gotcha!

Say that to my face, I dare you. ;)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

*hides*
 

Xue Sheng

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Tell Me/MT About Instances Youve Personally Seen Of A Female Being Harmed By A Male

On the NYS Thruway about 18 years ago, a car goes past me at about 90mph and then about a half-mile ahead of me abruptly pulls into the emergency lane. Female jumps out of the passenger side a male jumps out of the drivers side and goes over the hood, grabs her by the hair and starts bouncing her head off the guard rail. I see a State trooper about a 翹 mile past them I go and pull over to let him know and he has already seen it and is off with lights and sirens and gets to the car.

I have no idea what happened after that
 

nocturnal_

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Now, lemme be clear. Im not trying to invalidate you. I dont think youre lieing. But youre making out that people interfering IS WHAT HAPPENS. When it clearly ISNT. Its a thing that happens sometimes, in some places more than others. I can already hear you autopiloting to repeating yourself about age groups, to which i urge you to re-read the first part of this reply.

If you can get over the fact that your experience is not 'the rule', we can agree. Stuff will be different from place to place with different types of people (irrelevant of age). Whether or not someone knows the other person (chinto wanting to help a friend, i.e. someone he personally knew) will play a part. But to just make the sweeping statement that young men WILL intervene is trash. Also notice how ive at no point declared that they wont, because this isnt about proving myself right.

My experience is not the rule, but certainly not the exception either. I do agree stuff will be different from place to place. In most bars that I've frequented, the chances of third party interference when a man physically attacks a woman is very high.

Seriously though, I hang mainly in clubs and bars I guess demographically are 20 - 35/40, quite a range. But even when I was a clubhead back in the day in much younger crowds (late teens/20s my experience did not match up with yours or pgsmith. So I don't know whether it is a geographical thing - which would be odd and is hard to rationalise, as why would Sydney and Texas be specifically the same for this type of behaviour and at the same time opposed to where Cyriacus, Iklawson and myself are and have previously lived?

I am inclined to agree with Cyriacus that what you have witnessed is legit but not the norm - but then I guess it is only the perspective of three against two so stats wise nothing can come from that...

In Sydney, most (not all) bars unofficially cater for or attract certain demographics. Very rarely you come to a bar where the proportion of the early 20s and the 40s are about the same. Most bars/pubs/hotels cater or attract certain age groups or type of people, rather than being a bar where all age groups or type of people hang out together. I think this is the norm for most big cities. While in smaller towns, there are limited number of bars so most people from different age group and background congregate at the same bars.

In Sydney bars frequented by late teens and early 20s, there's a strong "trying (sometimes too hard) to impress" culture. I have two friends who work as bouncers at Sydney bars (different bars). They experience many incidents on most weekends. Many intoxicated young men sometimes looking for excuses to start trouble. Things don't always end up in physical fights, but very rarely these friends of mine experience a peaceful weekend at work.
 
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Cyriacus

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My experience is not the rule, but certainly not the exception either. I do agree stuff will be different from place to place.

Oh really?

If it's a bar is frequented by people in their 20s (where most go to the bars to pick up), it's almost guaranteed that people will interfere.

What I wrote was: a male physically attacks a female.People will interfere and this does not necessarily end up in a fight, but the act of interfering (could be just yelling, anything to prevent him to do more damage) is there. And I did write "interfere" in my post.

When a male tries to act violently towards a female inside a bar, you can bet your life savings that a few (or a bunch, if the bar is crowded) other males will try to interfere.

You dont seem to feel that way at all, mate.
 

nocturnal_

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Oh really? You dont seem to feel that way at all, mate.

Next time you're in Sydney, we can go to 5 different bars and put in $200 wager each time. You can try physically attack a woman in each bar, and if nobody interferes, you can take my $200. But if somebody other than myself interferes, I'll take your $200. We do this 5 times in 5 different bars. You can potentially win/lose $1000. How does that sound?
 

Zero

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So even if poor ol' Cyriacus "wins" and gets your grand, most likely he still gets locked up for a couple years and goes through the shower room ringer for being a woman hating maniac? Not sure I'd fancy those odds.
 

Zero

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I like IkLawson's comment that more often than not, guys who are now 50 were once. 40/30/20. I don't think that when it comes to bars, guys, girls and boozing, things will have really changed that much over the short term (if even ever - human's don't seem to be all too quick at evolving when it comes to emotional behaviour)
 
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Cyriacus

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Next time you're in Sydney, we can go to 5 different bars and put in $200 wager each time. You can try physically attack a woman in each bar, and if nobody interferes, you can take my $200. But if somebody other than myself interferes, I'll take your $200. We do this 5 times in 5 different bars. You can potentially win/lose $1000. How does that sound?

Sadly, i dont have that much money. Im but a lowly TAFE student :)
Id say its a pretty safe gamble, though. Just take them out quickly and wait to be asked to leave. Easy as pie.

PS: I love how youve resorted to asking me to make a bet which is not only illegal, but which youre probably thinking of as a trump card because you know its never gonna happen. You know how much id have to blow on air fares?

So even if poor ol' Cyriacus "wins" and gets your grand, most likely he still gets locked up for a couple years and goes through the shower room ringer for being a woman hating maniac? Not sure I'd fancy those odds.

And yeah, all my winnings would get dumped on court costs. I save money by not participating.
 

jks9199

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Next time you're in Sydney, we can go to 5 different bars and put in $200 wager each time. You can try physically attack a woman in each bar, and if nobody interferes, you can take my $200. But if somebody other than myself interferes, I'll take your $200. We do this 5 times in 5 different bars. You can potentially win/lose $1000. How does that sound?

Like a crime. And a bad idea. Maybe even a violation of the Rules. So I rather presume that you're engaging in a bit of hyperbole.
 

nocturnal_

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It's been my consistent experience that people who are 40 now were once 30 and that people who are 30 now were, likewise, once 20. This used to be the only way but perhaps advances in technology have changed things. :p

Being a 20 year old in the 1970s is different to being a 20 year old in the 1980s.
Being a 20 year old in the 1980s is different to being a 20 year old in the 1990s.
And so on.

Living in a town populated less by 50,000 people is different to living in a city populated by 5,000,000 people.

Id say its a pretty safe gamble, though. Just take them out quickly and wait to be asked to leave. Easy as pie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Talk is cheap.

I love how youve resorted to asking me to make a bet which is not only illegal, but which youre probably thinking of as a trump card because you know its never gonna happen. You know how much id have to blow on air fares?

I suggested an amount that's probably can be afforded by both of us. If I was bluffing, I would've suggested a crazy amount. I don't know where exactly you live, but airfares aren't too expensive these days.

So even if poor ol' Cyriacus "wins" and gets your grand, most likely he still gets locked up for a couple years and goes through the shower room ringer for being a woman hating maniac? Not sure I'd fancy those odds.

And yeah, all my winnings would get dumped on court costs. I save money by not participating.

You'll go to court only if there's interference, which proves my point. How would you go to court if there's no interferences?
 
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Cyriacus

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Talk is cheap.

It sure is! Think of all the money im saving, mate.

I suggested an amount that's probably can be afforded by both of us. If I was bluffing, I would've suggested a crazy amount. I don't know where exactly you live, but airfares aren't too expensive these days.

Mate, even if i could afford it, which i cant, A: Its illegal, and B: I dont know you, and nor do i care to know you. If the level of maturity youre showing here is any indication, i aint flying to Sydney for a visit.

You'll go to court only if there's interference, which proves my point. How would you go to court if there's no interferences?

Easy. For committing a crime known as 'assault' or 'attempted murder' in front of a building full of witnesses.
Interference isnt required. Im surprised you never thought of that.
 

lklawson

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Being a 20 year old in the 1970s is different to being a 20 year old in the 1980s.
Being a 20 year old in the 1980s is different to being a 20 year old in the 1990s.
And so on.
No, they're really not. Humans don't really change.

Living in a town populated less by 50,000 people is different to living in a city populated by 5,000,000 people.
And still populated by humans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Talk is cheap.
Yeah, I've noticed that about you.

I suggested an amount that's probably can be afforded by both of us. If I was bluffing, I would've suggested a crazy amount. I don't know where exactly you live, but airfares aren't too expensive these days.
Then YOU spend YOUR money and fly out to HIM to prove your point.

But we all know that you won't.
 

Zero

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You'll go to court only if there's interference, which proves my point. How would you go to court if there's no interferences?
Hmmm, as Cyriacus notes, that comment really makes one wonder. I am not sure if you are so worldly experienced as you let on dropping comments like that. Which is fine in itself but you seem to be trying to come across as someone who knows their stuff or has a valid angle on this particular discussion and comments like that ain't helping too much.

You also, with your ongoing references to small towns or cities under the magic 5,000,000 population mark, seem to have assumed that those with opinions, views or experience oppossed to yours must be coming from small towns or localities vastly different in size to the likes of Sydney (which may or may not be the case).
 

pgsmith

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nocturnal said:
Living in a town populated less by 50,000 people is different to living in a city populated by 5,000,000 people.
Of the three events that I described, two occured in the DFW metroplex area (population 7,000,000) and one occured in a small club that is closest to the town of Blue Ridge (population 857).

Excuse me for saying it, but you don't really seem to have much in the way of facts to back up your hypotheses.
 

geezer

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Excuse me for saying it, but you don't really seem to have much in the way of facts to back up your hypotheses.

Well then, let me jump in with a few random observations that are similarly without any statistical backing. I'm not sure what role the size of the community would play here, except that it's a good deal easier to remain anonymous in a large city. So in a small town you are not so likely to get away with beating women without everybody knowing.

Still that's no guarantee that people will do anything. When I was a teen a learned about a guy named "Dub" who lived near Hackberry, AZ, a dwindling "wide-spot-in-the-road" on old route 66 southeast of Kingman. Word was that he was real mean especially when drunk, and he beat his wife hard and often. One day somebody came across her week-old rotting corpse in Dub's back yard ...apparently beat to death, but the coroner wasn't sure. There was a brief investigation then the case was closed. Insufficient evidence to charge anybody I guess. And of course most everybody around there was related to Dub. Besides, like folks said, the woman "was just an Indian".

Sometimes interference doesn't do much good anyway. One time my brother was playing pool at the Hackberry gas station and store when Dub drove up in his beat up pick-up, drunk, with his blue-tick hound still tied to the trailer hitch. He'd unknowingly dragged the poor animal nearly a mile up the gravel road. The guy that ran the store lit into Dub, telling him what a freakin' idiot he was to treat a dog like that. Dub was embarrassed and got so mad that he yelled that it was his own damned dog and he could do with it whatever the hell he wanted. Then he took off down Route 66 at about 70 miles an hour ...with the dog still dragging behind. Nobody was willing to go after him. As my brother put it, "What was I supposed to do going to do, chase down a armed and violent drunk who had already gotten away with murder, and all over a dog that was probably dead already?"

PG, stuff like this happens in Texas too. Dub's family originally came from the Texas panhandle if I'm not mistaken. Or were they Okies? I'm not sure. Anyway my dad's family all comes from Texas. My mom is a Yankee. There is a difference in my experience. The Texans in my family would be more likely to physically jump in to stop something like an assault on a woman whereas my mom's family were the type to stand back and try to contact the authorities. Still, I'm not sure if it is just a matter of geography. My dad's father was not just a Texan, but a rancher. My mom's father, wasn't just a Yankee, but an Ivy-educated lawyer. Dang, when you look at it like that, no wonder they eventually got divorced!
 

nocturnal_

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No, they're really not. Humans don't really change.

Your grandfather's youth life is the same as your father's youth life and the same as your youth life? In a small town like Huber Heights, Ohio, maybe. But in cities with population of over 1,000,000 not really.

Then YOU spend YOUR money and fly out to HIM to prove your point.

Hahaha.... And then what? He's not making me a bet offer. If he made me an offer that I could potentially get money from, then bring it on. I was the one making an offer that he put his money where his mouth is (and he could potentially win money if he's proven right), and he refused.

Mate, even if i could afford it, which i cant, A: Its illegal, and B: I dont know you, and nor do i care to know you. If the level of maturity youre showing here is any indication, i aint flying to Sydney for a visit.

Translation: You worry that you'd lose the bet.

Easy. For committing a crime known as 'assault' or 'attempted murder' in front of a building full of witnesses.
Interference isnt required. Im surprised you never thought of that.

Hmmm, as Cyriacus notes, that comment really makes one wonder. I am not sure if you are so worldly experienced as you let on dropping comments like that.

Interference is required to identify the suspect. In a bar full of witness that's unable to identify the suspect (that runs away after 3 minutes), the only way to identify the suspect is if there is interference from a third party. How could the police do anything to an unidentified suspect?

You also, with your ongoing references to small towns or cities under the magic 5,000,000 population mark, seem to have assumed that those with opinions, views or experience oppossed to yours must be coming from small towns or localities vastly different in size to the likes of Sydney (which may or may not be the case).

lklawson lives in Huber Heights, Ohio (population less than 50,000), and from his previous response to me, he thinks life in the 1960s is the same as life in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, etc. From his posts, I actually wonder whether he ever has lived in big cities at all.

Cyriacus said that the airfare from where he currently lives to Sydney is expensive. I fly to Melbourne and Brisbane often, and the airfare can be as low as $150. If he lives somewhere that airfare to Sydney is expensive, that means he lives in a city with small population. Cyriacus also saying things about going to court without 3rd party interferences, which can only happen if the suspect can be identified. In a small town, it's quite easy to identify people. In a big city, it requires some interference to identify the suspect.

Zero, I'm actually disappointed that you're unable to deduce these facts, especially since you've made clever posts in other threads before. And where do you live, by the way?

I'm not sure what role the size of the community would play here, except that it's a good deal easier to remain anonymous in a large city. So in a small town you are not so likely to get away with beating women without everybody knowing.

This is common sense. I'm not sure why Cyriacus, Zero and lklawson don't understand this fact.
 

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