Tai Chi

[Dres_ut]

I'm a 39-year-old man who is in a wheelchair. I recently discovered Tai Chi as a form to help me with life in a wheelchair. I've also recently become a freelance writer, and I wrote an article about Tai Chi. I would love some feedback on the article and if I missed anything. THE HEALTH BENEFITS OF TAI CHI

 

[Xue Sheng]

Mostly good, 2 points

1) you are talking about Tàijíquán (太極拳) and the actual translation is not breath work. It is grand ultimate fist or supreme ultimate fist

2) there is no historical proof that it was started in Taoist and Buddhist monasteries. That would be a reference to the Taoist Zhang Sanfeng and there is now historically viable proof of his existence either. The most you can say and be historically accurate is that it came from the Chen Family, from Chen Wangting in the 17th century

 

[Buka]

Welcome to Martial Talk, Dres. Hope you stick around.

 

[EdwardA]

Mostly good, 2 points

1) you are talking about Tàijíquán (太極拳) and the actual translation is not breath work. It is grand ultimate fist or supreme ultimate fist

2) there is no historical proof that it was started in Taoist and Buddhist monasteries. That would be a reference to the Taoist Zhang Sanfeng and there is now historically viable proof of his existence either. The most you can say and be historically accurate is that it came from the Chen Family, from Chen Wangting in the 17th century

I haven't looked at historical data in a long time, but I was basically told, or what I could find out, was that Tàijíquán was started in Tibet and some went down the mountain to China and some went down the mountain to India. That may be folklore for all I know, but I always thought it made sense.

There are similar forms and medicine in India, very much like the Chinese versions, even today.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I haven't looked at historical data in a long time, but I was basically told, or what I could find out, was that Tàijíquán was started in Tibet and some went down the mountain to China and some went down the mountain to India. That may be folklore for all I know, but I always thought it made sense.

There are similar forms and medicine in India, very much like the Chinese versions, even today.

Sorry but that is folklore, taijiquan did not come from Tibet or India, there is absolutely no verifiable historical data to back up such claims. and there are great differences between Traditional Chinese Medicine and Ayurveda, there are some similarities but there are major differences you can't overlook

 

[EdwardA]

Sorry but that is folklore, taijiquan did not come from Tibet or India, there is absolutely no verifiable historical data to back up such claims. and there are great differences between Traditional Chinese Medicine and Ayurveda, there are some similarities but there are major differences you can't overlook

I said in my post that it may be folklore.

It's perfectly logical for different factions going in different directions, especially over generations, to be very different. I only said it made sense.

So where I'd it come from?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Tàijíquán was started in Tibet ...

Taiji came from the long fist system along the China Yellow River area.

Here is the Taiji long fist.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I said in my post that it may be folklore.

It's perfectly logical for different factions going in different directions, especially over generations, to be very different. I only said it made sense.

So where I'd it come from?

Like @Kung Fu Wang said, likely long fis,t of Shaolin (it was not that far from Chen Village) combined with whatever the Chen family was doing a the time and put together by Chen Wangting. Chen went to Yang, Yang and Chen went to Wu/Hao, Yang went to Wu, Wu/Hao (plus Bagua and Xingyi) went to Sun. The rest are variations of those 5. With the possible exception of Zhaobao which claims to have evolved by itself from the same source the Chen family got it.

That is pretty much what can be historically proven. There is a link that all families, other than Chen, claim to a Taoist by the name of Zhang Sanfeng. However there is no verifiable, historical proof that Zhang Sanfeng ever existed. There are reputable people who have written a bit about his history, but the dates vary greatly and they also cannot be proven.

There is absolutely no reputable, provable origin to Tibet or India or anywhere outside of China

 

[EdwardA]

Nobody knows anything before the Chen family. What dates for them?

How many moves in the earliest form?
27 or less?

 

[EdwardA]

About 1680.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Nobody knows anything before the Chen family. What dates for them?

How many moves in the earliest form?
27 or less?

There was no martial art referred to as Taijiquan before Chen Wangting 1580 - 1660. There is likely a Qigiong form referred to as taiji qigong prior to that, but nothing called Taijiquan as a martial art pre Chen Wangting. There are multiple references to Zhang Sanfeng, who may or may not have existed, but there is no verifiable historical proof that he did. There is also a possibility that there was something similar to the 13 postures prior to Chen, but again that cannot be proven.

Number of postures from the Chen family, likely a lot more than 27. There is speculation that Chen Wanting came up with one Chen family taijiquan form that was later split into Laojia Yilu and Laojia Erlu.

Take a look at this Zhang Sanfeng was REAL!!! well no…

 

[EdwardA]

There was no martial art referred to as Taijiquan before Chen Wangting 1580 - 1660. There is likely a Qigiong form referred to as taiji qigong prior to that, but nothing called Taijiquan as a martial art pre Chen Wangting. There are multiple references to Zhang Sanfeng, who may or may not have existed, but there is no verifiable historical proof that he did. There is also a possibility that there was something similar to the 13 postures prior to Chen, but again that cannot be proven.

Number of postures from the Chen family, likely a lot more than 27. There is speculation that Chen Wanting came up with one Chen family taijiquan form that was later split into Laojia Yilu and Laojia Erlu.

Take a look at this Zhang Sanfeng was REAL!!! well no…

This is where I was looking. Can't say if they're good info or not, but they were saying it was toward the end of his life.
History of Taiji (Tai Chi)

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is where I was looking. Can't say if they're good info or not, but they were saying it was toward the end of his life.
History of Taiji (Tai Chi)

It is fine, one or two minor discrepancies from what I know, but not bad overall. But there is nowhere on that page that says the first form was 27 postures or less.

 

[EdwardA]

Hmm, they say 48, 71 and another at 84.

Chen Taiji Forms - Chen style Taijiquan, Chen style 48 form, Qigong, Silk-reeling exercises

I learned a 108 set. Really what I did was follow along with someone untill I got it right...about a year. I was doing so much other training I didn't memorize much. The guy showing me learned it in Hawaii in the 60s. If I remember, he said it was from the Tsung family. I've seen a little reference to that name, but didn't spend a lot of time looking.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hmm, they say 48, 71 and another at 84.

Chen Taiji Forms - Chen style Taijiquan, Chen style 48 form, Qigong, Silk-reeling exercises

I learned a 108 set. Really what I did was follow along with someone untill I got it right...about a year. I was doing so much other training I didn't memorize much. The guy showing me learned it in Hawaii in the 60s. If I remember, he said it was from the Tsung family. I've seen a little reference to that name, but didn't spend a lot of time looking.

If it was Tung family, in Hawaii, it was not Chen, it was Yang, or Dong style, depending on whether it came from Tung Hu Ling or Dong Zeng Chen (Tung Hu Ling's younger brother)

 

[EdwardA]

If it was Tung family, in Hawaii, it was not Chen, it was Yang, or Dong style, depending on whether it came from Tung Hu Ling or Dong Zeng Chen (Tung Hu Ling's younger brother)

It was an upright style with very little lower movement...very balanced, very strong. It fit in very well with my other training....which was a hybrid WC, that included a lot more circular movement...still had grappling, but a lot of circular traps and weight maniuplation too.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It was an upright style with very little lower movement...very balanced, very strong. It fit in very well with my other training....which was a hybrid WC, that included a lot more circular movement...still had grappling, but a lot of circular traps too.

It was Yang or Dong style

My lineage is Tung Style, My shifu was a student of Tung Ying Chieh who is the father of Tung Hu Ling, and I need to correct a mistake, Dong Zeng Chen is Tung Hu Ling's younger son, not his younger brother

Tung Ying Chieh

Tung Hu Ling

 

[EdwardA]

I can't watch video until near the end of my data cycle...from the stills it looks like the same structure. That's certainly not much to say until I can watch them later toward the end of the month. I'll try and check them out.

 

[EdwardA]

It was Yang or Dong style

My lineage is Tung Style, My shifu was a student of Tung Ying Chieh who is the father of Tung Hu Ling, and I need to correct a mistake, Dong Zeng Chen is Tung Hu Ling's younger son, not his younger brother

Tung Ying Chieh

Tung Hu Ling

Hu Ling?

I remember that because my friend played on the name, so he could say he was FuLing around. I didn't think it was very funny, but didn't mind him amusing himself. Of course.

He did say what sounded like Hu Ling Dung...to me. I'm remembering.

Also, he trained there in the mid to late 60s. At the time the Chinese in the US wanted to sound American.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hu Ling?

I remember that because my friend played on the name, so he could say he was FuLing around. I didn't think it was very funny, but didn't mind him amusing himself. Of course.

He did say what sounded like Hu Ling Dung...to me. I'm remembering.

Also, he trained there in the mid to late 60s. At the time the Chinese in the US wanted to sound American.

In China, the family name comes first, Family name is Tung, therefore Tung Hu Ling. In America, family name goes last, therefore Hu Ling Tung