Tai Chi Training is for everyone
- Thread starter Xue Sheng
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Kframe
Black Belt
The big issue I have with tai chi is the near impossibility of finding someone here that teaches it as a martial at. There are 2 Tai chi places with in 40 minutes and looking at there website I have no idea if it is the senior dance version or the martial art version.
mograph
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It is a fair generalization that if a school says it offers Chen style, it is probably martial, because there seem to be fewer non-martial Chen schools out there.
Of course, there are good martial Yang Style schools out there, but a lot of non-martial schools say they teach Yang style. So it takes more digging to find the martial ones.
You should probably visit the schools near you and ask how they teach applications.
Of course, there are good martial Yang Style schools out there, but a lot of non-martial schools say they teach Yang style. So it takes more digging to find the martial ones.
You should probably visit the schools near you and ask how they teach applications.
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
- Thread Starter
- #5
No its not fair; name a taiji style and you will find a school that is teaching it only for "health" with no martial side at all...including Chen. Although it is more common to find a school that is teaching Yang style, or at least they think it is Yang style of call it yang style even though it may be 24 form or the 48 form which are not from the Yang family. But there are those that are teaching Yang style and it is also just for health with no martial side at all.
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
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- #7
Nope, its all of them...if you are talking the 5 main families.and to tell you the truth, I am, waiting for Baguazhang to meet the same fate...and I'm not happy about the either
I will say that so far I have yet to hear of the (as some say) the 6th family to have a school that is not martial art based but then Zhaobao is rather rare outside of China. But it to cold have a for health only teacher somewhere. And if you are talking competition only schools, all 6 of them have Modern Wushu forms.
I have a good friend who teaches Chen Taiji for "100% health".
Kframe
Black Belt
Here is the school I was tempted to drop in on. http://www.changingdragon.com/ Does anything on that site say if it is martial or not? So far I see a mention of self defense but only briefly.
I have always been curious of martial tai chi. I think that since I am moving away from mma asperations and into more practical ones.. I see many side benefits of tai chi. I feel that physical benefits of the practice, the health stuff so to speak will only help my Taijutsu. If I get to learn a martial art on top of it, hey added bonus.
Let me know what you guys think about them.
I have always been curious of martial tai chi. I think that since I am moving away from mma asperations and into more practical ones.. I see many side benefits of tai chi. I feel that physical benefits of the practice, the health stuff so to speak will only help my Taijutsu. If I get to learn a martial art on top of it, hey added bonus.
Let me know what you guys think about them.
Kframe
Black Belt
Any thoughts on that school guys? Xue?
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
- Thread Starter
- #11
Without actually watching a class to it is hard to tell. By just looking at the webpage it looks more like health only, however that could also just be a sales pitch to get people in the door and they may actually have an MA side, tell some people taiji is a martial art and they will never show up to a class
If you walk in the door and ask my shifu (who has no webpage by the way) I he teaches marital arts he will likely tell you the same thing his Shifu said...Taiji is for health. Of course his shifu was rather found of Qinna too, as is he. And he is not lying, taiji I for health, weather that is meditative purposes and exercise or for self defense and keeping yourself healthy by not getting hurt.
If you walk in the door and ask my shifu (who has no webpage by the way) I he teaches marital arts he will likely tell you the same thing his Shifu said...Taiji is for health. Of course his shifu was rather found of Qinna too, as is he. And he is not lying, taiji I for health, weather that is meditative purposes and exercise or for self defense and keeping yourself healthy by not getting hurt.
Kframe
Black Belt
LOL thanks for the reply. Did you see the PDF link showing there curriculum? On the right side of the page.. It has push hands but also mentions some partner drills.
colemcm
Orange Belt
I looked at it and it did not inspire confidence. Over a year before they teach you push hands? Five years before they teach da lu?
In my opinion, you should keep looking.
In my opinion, you should keep looking.
Kframe
Black Belt
Sadly I think there is one more in another city, but it looks more senior dance then anything. It seams that this is the only one in this section of Indiana. There are a few in INDY but that's it.
I still may drop in. Their may be a reason they have the schedule like that? I was always under the impression that martial progression was excruciatingly slow.
I still may drop in. Their may be a reason they have the schedule like that? I was always under the impression that martial progression was excruciatingly slow.
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
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- #15
It looks like there are a few in and around Indianapolis but that is over 100 miles from the one you originally posted
Indiana University T'ai Chi Ch'uan Club
http://www.indiana.edu/~iutaichi/schedule.html
http://iccci-taiji.blogspot.com/
http://indianataichi.com/
Allegedly a Chen school at
615 W. 43rd St.
Indianapolis, IN 46208
Indiana University T'ai Chi Ch'uan Club
http://www.indiana.edu/~iutaichi/schedule.html
http://iccci-taiji.blogspot.com/
http://indianataichi.com/
Allegedly a Chen school at
615 W. 43rd St.
Indianapolis, IN 46208
I think there is a reason why many schools are teaching Tai chi for health benefits. The economics just does not work in favor of teaching it as a martial art.
- For every student interested in Tai Chi as a martial art, there are probably one hundred more interested in it as a Yoga substitute. In a bigger picture, the demand for martial arts training is so much smaller.
- A student interested in Tai Chi as a martial art has higher expectations for his teacher's skills. But is he willing to pay more per class?
- It just takes longer to develop the martial art skills in Tai Chi. And the chance of a student quitting mid-course is much higher. The yield of the crop is so much lower.
Having said that, finding a Chen style Tai Chi instructor is probably your best bet. You should be able to learn Push Hands, Qin Na, and Fajin methods in grappling situation. You get a lot of martial arts applications already. If you are good, you can progress to free form sparing - let's just say not a lot of people are good enough to get there.
I am currently studying under Master Wang Feng Ming on the East Coast. He teaches weekly classes in NJ, NY, and CT, including martial arts applications. If anyone is interested, here is his website: http://www.worldtaiji.com/. But obviously, there are many other Chen style Tai Chi Masters out there, if you keep looking.
Find a good teacher, respect his expertise, stick to your training - and you will get there.
Good luck!
- For every student interested in Tai Chi as a martial art, there are probably one hundred more interested in it as a Yoga substitute. In a bigger picture, the demand for martial arts training is so much smaller.
- A student interested in Tai Chi as a martial art has higher expectations for his teacher's skills. But is he willing to pay more per class?
- It just takes longer to develop the martial art skills in Tai Chi. And the chance of a student quitting mid-course is much higher. The yield of the crop is so much lower.
Having said that, finding a Chen style Tai Chi instructor is probably your best bet. You should be able to learn Push Hands, Qin Na, and Fajin methods in grappling situation. You get a lot of martial arts applications already. If you are good, you can progress to free form sparing - let's just say not a lot of people are good enough to get there.
I am currently studying under Master Wang Feng Ming on the East Coast. He teaches weekly classes in NJ, NY, and CT, including martial arts applications. If anyone is interested, here is his website: http://www.worldtaiji.com/. But obviously, there are many other Chen style Tai Chi Masters out there, if you keep looking.
Find a good teacher, respect his expertise, stick to your training - and you will get there.
Good luck!
Blaze Dragon
Blue Belt
I think another thing people face with Taijiquan is that it's a rare art. Or at least seems to be rare to me. Since it's been spoken of so often, as of late, I've noticed many "Kung-fu" schools slapping it on there name or sight.
I don't want to be mean...but it's going to sound bad... I'll also night point out any schools, because without actually going to them I have no place making a judgement. (not to mention the fact that I am not a pillar of martial arts excellence myself
)
I've found that many of the schools I see who teach "taijiquan" add it on as a "health exercise" to encourage those that can not handle a full and dynamic system. The issue being the teachers, teaching these methods, simply know the sequence of movements and do not themselves do taijiquan. So in many cases, I believe that most are not able to teach it as a combat art, since they dont' really "know" it. I don't think taijiquan is a single form for health on the sight but must be focused on. (After talking with many guys on here such as Xue Sheng refocusing on taijiquan has made a great difference for me)
Even in China (from what I understand) they have "taijiquan" breaks at work, simliar to "tea time" in England. People learn the moving meditation side.
I've studied Shaolin-Do's Taijiquan (and their other internal arts) for 5 years now, and I still suck compared to my sifu. I will say though that he has impressed me with his aptitude and understanding of Taijiquan. Over the years I've learned to sink my weight, move energy from my feet in an explosive manor (fajin, though beginner level) and develop what we call "listening skills". It has greatly improved my sparring and I love what I am learning. If you put me up against another I feel confident in my abilities now, and though I've made leaps and bounds from day one, my sifu will still toss me like I'm made of straw. I'm just over half his age and have probably 90lbs or so on him. However Sifu has been studying for 30 some years, and to obtain his level of ability will take me a great deal more study. My point is, schools that teach the combat applications, and fighting techniques of Taijiquan do exist. They are just few and far between it seems.
I am under the belief that this is because it takes a great deal of time before taijiquan becomes combat effective. This is at least my experience with it.
I've been to numerous other schools and styles. You go in and in the first month you'll be throwing attacks that can hurt other people. In a year I would say most can spar fairly well (this depends on the person and lessons). However with Taijiquan, the 5 years I've spent and I would say I'm at beginner to intermediate level regardless of my sash. Why?
Simply because, breathing and meditation, focus of mind and intent, cultivation, movement, rooting and uprooting all are an art in themselves. I feel it takes another direction then just throwing attacks and works with moving with your opponent to make there movements work against them.
The translation (as I understand it) is Tai Ji Quan = Grand Ultimate Fist
I think it's deserving of this name, but it doesn't become that way for the practitioner over night. I think one could practice for a life time and still improve with it every day. I know this applies to most things, however with taijiquan I find myself still looking and learning new things about the beginner stances and movements to this day :S
I don't want to be mean...but it's going to sound bad... I'll also night point out any schools, because without actually going to them I have no place making a judgement. (not to mention the fact that I am not a pillar of martial arts excellence myself
)I've found that many of the schools I see who teach "taijiquan" add it on as a "health exercise" to encourage those that can not handle a full and dynamic system. The issue being the teachers, teaching these methods, simply know the sequence of movements and do not themselves do taijiquan. So in many cases, I believe that most are not able to teach it as a combat art, since they dont' really "know" it. I don't think taijiquan is a single form for health on the sight but must be focused on. (After talking with many guys on here such as Xue Sheng refocusing on taijiquan has made a great difference for me)
Even in China (from what I understand) they have "taijiquan" breaks at work, simliar to "tea time" in England. People learn the moving meditation side.
I've studied Shaolin-Do's Taijiquan (and their other internal arts) for 5 years now, and I still suck compared to my sifu. I will say though that he has impressed me with his aptitude and understanding of Taijiquan. Over the years I've learned to sink my weight, move energy from my feet in an explosive manor (fajin, though beginner level) and develop what we call "listening skills". It has greatly improved my sparring and I love what I am learning. If you put me up against another I feel confident in my abilities now, and though I've made leaps and bounds from day one, my sifu will still toss me like I'm made of straw. I'm just over half his age and have probably 90lbs or so on him. However Sifu has been studying for 30 some years, and to obtain his level of ability will take me a great deal more study. My point is, schools that teach the combat applications, and fighting techniques of Taijiquan do exist. They are just few and far between it seems.
I am under the belief that this is because it takes a great deal of time before taijiquan becomes combat effective. This is at least my experience with it.
I've been to numerous other schools and styles. You go in and in the first month you'll be throwing attacks that can hurt other people. In a year I would say most can spar fairly well (this depends on the person and lessons). However with Taijiquan, the 5 years I've spent and I would say I'm at beginner to intermediate level regardless of my sash. Why?
Simply because, breathing and meditation, focus of mind and intent, cultivation, movement, rooting and uprooting all are an art in themselves. I feel it takes another direction then just throwing attacks and works with moving with your opponent to make there movements work against them.
The translation (as I understand it) is Tai Ji Quan = Grand Ultimate Fist
I think it's deserving of this name, but it doesn't become that way for the practitioner over night. I think one could practice for a life time and still improve with it every day. I know this applies to most things, however with taijiquan I find myself still looking and learning new things about the beginner stances and movements to this day :S
mograph
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Let me intervene right here, if I may. The "fist" is correct, also as a rough indicator of "martial art" or "boxing." But taiji or tai ji comes from Taoist cosmology. Metaphorically, it's about the creation of The Myriad Things (basically, the complex world) from an undifferentiated beginning. Remember, this is a metaphor that can be applied to many things.
In other words:
The universe started as wuji, which means "no extremes", "no opposites", "no polarities" or "no ultimates." Everything is the same, nothing stands out, nothing moves. This is represented by a circle.
The next state that arose was/is taiji, where stuff started happening. This is the constantly-flowing state of yin and yang: symbolized by the familiar black & white swirly image. Since this is the first time that stuff stood out (when opposites appeared), the taiji state can be translated as "grand extremes", "first extremes", "supreme opposites," "most important polarities," and so on.
So the meaning of ji as "ultimate" is not "best"; it's more like "opposite" or "polarity" or "end."
After taiji, yin and yang separate or become less fluid; then they combine in pairs, then trigrams to create the bagua, and onward. Metaphorically. :asian:
mograph
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Funny: I visited my godson's Karate dojo and found myself in conversation with some of the senior karateka. Hearing that they offered Tai Chi, I asked them what style they practiced. The uncertain reply was "Tai Chi .... Chuan?"
OP
Xue Sheng
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- #20
Funny: I visited my godson's Karate dojo and found myself in conversation with some of the senior karateka. Hearing that they offered Tai Chi, I asked them what style they practiced. The uncertain reply was "Tai Chi .... Chuan?"
Likely Beijing 24 form or one of the other competition forms
