Taekwondo = defense?

[Laborn]

Taekwondo appears to me like a sport, tournament fighting and stuff, well im 15, I have pretty fast and hard kicks, but I have this doubt, that if someone confronts me my leggs alone wont be enough to defend my self, I had another thread like this, but I have to ask again, do you think taekwondo alone would be enough to take on the punks out there? on my block I jog alot, and a few times i've almost been jumped, I usually talk my way out of it, I wont fight unless I have to, but if push comes to shove would taekwondo be enough, I fight other martial artist, and we usually stay back , but in a real fight they rush, charge, tackle you, if someone tackled me to to the ground, i'd be dead meat....but would they get a chance to get me to the ground?

mabye I should take another style? one more in the way of self defense? what do you guys think?

sorry guys for this kinda long thread.

thanks
Laborn

 

[FearlessFreep]

Depends on how you train in Tae Kwon Do.

First off, when you kick, kick for depth, for penetration. Don't just kick enough to whack the hogu, practicing kicking for six inches of penetration.

Second, TD is not all kicks. TKD Olympic style sparring pretty much is, but TKD as a whole as punches, blocks, hand strikes (knife-hand, ridge hand, spear hand, backhand) and even the arm motions in the strikes and blocks can also be used for breaks and small joint movement (but you have to train the hand motions as well)

but in a real fight they rush, charge, tackle you, if someone tackled me to to the ground, i'd be dead meat..

Train for that. In my TKD classes we train sef-defense against people rushing and shoving and grabbing, etc..

If your training is all tournment sparring and poomse, then, yeah, it's not enough for self-defense. If you train for the full fighting art, then it will serve you well

 

[Gemini]

Laborn,

If you're a brown belt and haven't had exposure to hand techniques, am I right in assuming your school is geared towards competition? Not that that's a bad thing, I love competition. My point is, it may not be a case of the wrong art, maybe just the wrong school.

 

[MJS]

Taekwondo appears to me like a sport, tournament fighting and stuff, well im 15, I have pretty fast and hard kicks, but I have this doubt, that if someone confronts me my leggs alone wont be enough to defend my self, I had another thread like this, but I have to ask again, do you think taekwondo alone would be enough to take on the punks out there? on my block I jog alot, and a few times i've almost been jumped, I usually talk my way out of it, I wont fight unless I have to, but if push comes to shove would taekwondo be enough, I fight other martial artist, and we usually stay back , but in a real fight they rush, charge, tackle you, if someone tackled me to to the ground, i'd be dead meat....but would they get a chance to get me to the ground?

mabye I should take another style? one more in the way of self defense? what do you guys think?

sorry guys for this kinda long thread.

thanks
Laborn

First off, welcome to the forum! :ultracool

As it was already said, the majority of it is going to come down to how you're currently training. You'll fight like you train. How is your training geared? Kicking is good, but you want to make sure that you're also focusing on the other aspects such as punching, as well as your more close range strikes such as elbows, knees, headbutts, etc. You may also want to focus on some grappling.

As for taking on another style...I see nothing wrong with cross training or at the very least, looking at how other styles train. I do suggest that you wait until you have a strong foundation in one art first before taking something else on.

Mike

 

[arnisador]

Depends on how you train in Tae Kwon Do.

Absolutely. I've heard that military TKD in Korea is trained in a very harsh and effective manner.

Much TKD in the States is very sports-oriented. It's good for what it is, but it is what it is--an Olympic sport. Not all schools are principally for sport of course.

In general, I'd advise adding something with some hands/close-in emphasis. That could be something like boxing or JKD or the like, both of which would fit well, or a grappling art like Judo or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or similar.

This isn't really TKD-specific advice. Your art tends to emphasize a certain range and weapon (long and feet, respectively). It makes sense to cross-train a bit.

 

[silatman]

Confidence goes a long way in preventing a fight, street punks will normally only pick someone that they believe they can beat, theres not too many people around who pick fights thinking there going to lose. Most martial artists exsude confidence sub consciously and dont look like victems.
Take a look around next time your out in the street, at the mall, where ever and you can always pick out the strong people and the weak and it has nothing to do with size.
IMHO any art will give you the confidence of looking after yourself if you train hard enough and that will come across like a beacon to people looking for trouble.

 

[Moogong]

Everybody has given great advice so far. I would just add that if you are afraid of being taken to the ground, ask your instructor to go over ground defense and take down prevention techniques. If you still feel unprepared, crosstrain in bjj or judo once your achieve 1st dan.
You say you are 15 years old? Perhaps join your high schools wrestling team. That's not only good for fitness and cardio but would be a great addition to TKD. Not to mention it would be free...a definite plus.

 

[Han-Mi]

Just for example sake. My budy was recently rushed by a guy and laid him out with one side kick. It works, you just have to be prepared.

 

[psi_radar]

People on this forum are probably getting tired of this old saw--because your question is one that is often asked--but one of my easiest street fights ever was against a TKD black belt who was sober, and I was dead drunk. He tried to kick me in the head with a roundhouse, I ducked and scooped his support leg and landed him on his ***. Fight over. Of course, I was a pretty proficient wrestler at the time, but even without that training I think I would have picked up the attack. Leg movements are big, swinging things that you just have to react to if the adrenalin is flowing at all.

Start with the best teacher in your area, not the martial art. If you're going to prison or war sometime in the next few months, then I'd recommend Krav Maga or Systema, arts that will serve you well in the short term. Systema will serve in in the long term as well. If you end up taking TKD, then you'll have a great base for your next martial art. The important part is to get started and see how your body moves. Some martial artists are very loyal to their art, some of whom right now would like to kick my butt for dissing TKD. Others take what they want from various styles and move on. So this choice isn't the end-all be-all.

In the future, consider a well-rounded striking art like Kenpo, Silat, Muay Thai, which is sport-oriented but relatively practical--I already mentioned Systema--, get some ground work: Brazillian Ju-jitsu, Judo, or wrestling, and you'll be the baddest mother****er on the street. Sorry for the cursing but I've been reading Miles Davis' biography and he makes the word "mother****er" sound so poetic I'm inclined to use it in everyday language.

 

[Han-Mi]

People on this forum are probably getting tired of this old saw--because your question is one that is often asked--but one of my easiest street fights ever was against a TKD black belt who was sober, and I was dead drunk. He tried to kick me in the head with a roundhouse, I ducked and scooped his support leg and landed him on his ***. Fight over. Of course, I was a pretty proficient wrestler at the time, but even without that training I think I would have picked up the attack. Leg movements are big, swinging things that you just have to react to if the adrenalin is flowing at all.

Not all TKD blackbelts would start out with a round kick to the head. But I understand the argument. Wrestlers have a good chance against TKD and good Wrestling is more prevelant than good TKD. I wrestled in highschool and we work some jujitsu in class, Luckily we are a well rounded school. I stand up for TKD a lot, but it all depends on who is using it. Though My training is not Purely TKD, I do believe in TKD as a valid method of self defense, but it does take more time to be useful than some other arts.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Taekwondo appears to me like a sport, tournament fighting and stuff, well im 15, I have pretty fast and hard kicks, but I have this doubt, that if someone confronts me my leggs alone wont be enough to defend my self, I had another thread like this, but I have to ask again, do you think taekwondo alone would be enough to take on the punks out there? on my block I jog alot, and a few times i've almost been jumped, I usually talk my way out of it, I wont fight unless I have to, but if push comes to shove would taekwondo be enough, I fight other martial artist, and we usually stay back , but in a real fight they rush, charge, tackle you, if someone tackled me to to the ground, i'd be dead meat....but would they get a chance to get me to the ground?

mabye I should take another style? one more in the way of self defense? what do you guys think?
thanks
Laborn

First, increase your situational awareness while jogging. Second, you did very well in talking yourself out of trouble. At 15 that demonstrates real maturity. A lot of kids your age might figure that because they know martial arts, they will dominate in any confrontation.

Second, TKD, in general, is a VERY diverse art nowadays. Saying you study TKD is like saying you study Karate. Which style? TKD ranges from the pure sport to the super combative to the in-between to the McDojang commercial black belt in a year style. I wouldn't worry too much about having a sport emphasis if your school overall is a good one with high standards, because the training in coordination, excellence and discipline will serve you well throughout your life.

The poster who recommended joining your H.S. wrestling team gave you solid GOLD advice. That and learning to use the hand techniques that are in your forms will go a long way toward remedying any weaknesses in your training. However, avoidance is always better than defence. The poster who recommended that you carry yourself in a confident matter gave the best advice for your situation.

 

[psi_radar]

Not all TKD blackbelts would start out with a round kick to the head. But I understand the argument. Wrestlers have a good chance against TKD and good Wrestling is more prevelant than good TKD. I wrestled in highschool and we work some jujitsu in class, Luckily we are a well rounded school. I stand up for TKD a lot, but it all depends on who is using it. Though My training is not Purely TKD, I do believe in TKD as a valid method of self defense, but it does take more time to be useful than some other arts.

All respects due to you, the martial artist truly represents the art, however, every street experience I've had with a TKDist left me the winner (three fights, twice with the same guy). I did get beaten once in a tounament by a TKD'er, but he was damned good and there was no opportunity for a charge or takedown. I also didn't feel the hits. Any artist that pays attention to the base as well as the attack has a good chance against a kicker. You've got to concede that TKD relies on leg-work to hands at least a 70-30% ratio. In my mind that's like leaving the top part, most rapid part of your tool box closed.

You're right though, it depends on the artist and the school. :asian:

 

[psi_radar]

If I could do it all over again...

Wrestling

Kenpo


Systema

Jiu-jitsu


Wait..that's what I've done...

Consider this, grasshopper... take pebble from hand.
.

 

[psi_radar]

OK, I know I'm reaching shameless post-whore levels here, but I just re-read your initial post (and others) and the whole multiple-attacker scenario finally registered. You did the right thing. Defending yourself against three or more attackers usually only works on film.

The Russians and the Slovaks have a tradition of group fighting. To my knowledge, they are the only ones that have developed specific methodologies besides "line 'em up." Do some google searches, there are actually events when young men gather in lines and attack each other, along the lines of May-Day celebrations. Whoopee! This happens in other cultures (soccer hoooligans) but it's not so organized or traditional.

Join the wrestling team; I loved it, it developed my competitive spirit, got me used to contact and taught me great skills. If there's a Systema school in your area, join it. It's harder than any other martial arts school you've been to; anticipate some pain, but it will pay off. Good luck!

 

[Gemini]

Moogong, - Excellent advise about the wrestling. I wrestled in HS and it's a great foundation for any MA.

psi-radar, - If I had the same experiences you did, I would probably feel the same way, so I can certainly understand your opinion. Shame. All I can say is, anyone who wants to start a street fight with a kick to the head is going to get what he deserves. I fall back to "It's not the art, but the practitioner" on this one. There's alot more to TKD than high kicks. We spend as much time with striking techniques as kicking techniques at my school. After all, it isn't Tae do.

Regards,

 

[arnisador]

I wrestled in HS as well and it was a great fallback when I got tackled and my standard martial arts techniques didn't work. Also good for conditioning/stamina and confidence that you can handle another person.

Now I rely on BJJ instead, but 2 years of wrestling was a big, and free, help.

 

[TigerWoman]

As others have said, it depends on the school and the martial artist. A high round kick to the head is very foolish for street self-defense. It shows alot of immaturity in the art. We don't do wide slow swinging kicks. After doing hundreds of each kick each session for many years, a fast snap kick from the front leg will put a knee out very quickly. It is accurate when it is trained properly. We also train alot of hand technique and that includes punching to the head. Taekwondo self-defense is also for rushing, grabs, holds and some ground technique etc. Sparring in class is not street self-defense. The more you practice, the better you will get but it does depend on your school and what it has to offer. TW

 

[Brad Dunne]

Labron, from all that has been stated, your in a sport totally venue. I would suggest that since you are a brown belt level, finish the journey. In the interim, you may want to ask your instructor (provided he/she is capable), to possibly set up some purely self defense classes. If that's not an option, then I would look around for another school that has a focus on self defense. Not knowing what's available in your area, my first offering would be to find either a Hapkido or Jujitsu school. You just may be surprised at how easily your TKD training can fit into other disciplines.

Any good TKD school and the operative word is "good", should have a decent self defense curriculum. High kicks have there place, but not as a focal point for self defense. Common sense goes a long, long way in interacting with the martial arts. A big problem is that many students just totally adhear to what the instructor(s) are showing and many instructors in TKD are just on a fast track to make a buck.

Please keep us up to date on your situation and if any of the suggestions had merit. :asian:

 

[psi_radar]

Moogong, - Excellent advise about the wrestling. I wrestled in HS and it's a great foundation for any MA.

psi-radar, - If I had the same experiences you did, I would probably feel the same way, so I can certainly understand your opinion. Shame. All I can say is, anyone who wants to start a street fight with a kick to the head is going to get what he deserves. I fall back to "It's not the art, but the practitioner" on this one. There's alot more to TKD than high kicks. We spend as much time with striking techniques as kicking techniques at my school. After all, it isn't Tae do.

Regards,

I hear you, I only have my own experiences to formulate my judgements. I'm sure there are exceptional TKD practitioners out there as well as schools that teach a more rounded and practical curriculum.

 

[sgtmac_46]

A good foundation in Boxing punches and movement patterns and Muay Thai kicking techniques (all low line), knees and elbows is a must for the street. Followed by a good understanding of wrestling principles and ground fighting techniques (either BJJ or Judo). It's never failed me yet. It should be noted that over 9 times out of 10, a good boxer will win any street fight, even against skilled opponents, by virtue of the fact that they are used to hitting people for real and they are used to getting hit. It's actually easier in a street fight than in a ring, because most street fighters can't box, but they try to use their hands anyway. Kicks are far fewer in the street than they are in the movies. If you work on techniques in each of the primary ranges of combat, then you should be on your way to being prepared.