Tactical Flashlight

[Psilent Knight]

Pocket clip for me, or holster.

For defensive use I have mine set on strobe for a couple of reasons: First, not only does it hurt like high intensity (which strobe is usually the highest lumen setting) but I think it can also be disorientating.

Yes, all of my flashlights that have a strobe function also strobe on the highest setting. The reason that I have recently come to be against the strobe setting in a SD situation is that I experimented with it after reading some research that suggest that the strobe function can be a setback to the person WITH the flashlight as well as against the bad guy. The reasons given were a) the strobe makes it difficult for the bad guy to detect your movements and distance from him. This is most certainly advantageous to the holder of the flashlight. BUT it can also have a slight disorientation on the person holding the flashlight as well and it can also make it difficult for that person to notice slight movements and distance changes that the bad guy makes.

The one with the light still has the upper hand. But for me one of the goals in a SD situation is to maximize any and all advantages and minimize any and all disadvantages I may have in that situation. Even that slight downside with the strobe can be the difference between going home or going to the morgue that night.

The reason this happens brings us to b) the environment has an effect on how the strobe bounces around. You can strobe someone standing in front of a car and the car window and the finish on the car itself can make it so that you feel a slight effect of the strobe. Even if you still have the upper hand as the holder of the flashlight you still do not want to give the bad guy any chances to do what he wants to do to you or your family. Looking for too long at the bad guy while you have your strobe light fixed on him will start to have a negative effect on you as well.

The most disconcerting reason I have read to say 'nay' to the strobe setting is c) the holder of the flashlight may not be aware that he too is being ever so slightly affected by his own light. This lack of awareness makes it easier to miss certain movements that the bad guy makes and will have us thinking that we still hold all the chips in a SD situation.

I experimented with the strobe setting with my wife where I used the strobe setting while in our bedroom (since our room has walls, mirrors, desks, etc.) and sure enough I was not able to detect some of her movements that she made. I think another reason is because my own eyes were bothered and started hurting while I was looking at her trying to detect whatever movements I can. Because I had the light directed at her I was catching some of the after effects of the strobe as my eyes were fixated on her. I didn't like it. Not one bit. We cannot dictate when and where we may have to defend ourselves and if the strobe setting can have any cons at all to go with the pros then I will not use it. So far I haven't read any cons about using the regular high output setting. So my position is why not just go with the setting that has no cons at all rather than take any chances on a setting that does have cons? And also I'm still not convinced that the strobe setting would be better than the high setting. All of the cons that I have read about with the strobe do not exist with regular high output mode.

Second, strobe is more likely to attract attention in a dark setting. In a SD situation I want to attract as much attention as possible.

This is the only reason I MAY want to use a strobe setting in a SD situation and that's only if I can find a way to use it without being affected by it myself. And even still just because I am using the strobe function on my lights doesn't mean help will definitely come. Some people may see it and not give it a second thought.

On a side note, some folks don't like flashlights with 'blinky' functions such as SOS, strobe, beacon, bike flasher etc. Personally, I'll take as many as I can get. From a survival/emergency preparedness perspective it could save your life. I talked with one guy who said if he had to he'd simply tap out SOS with the switch. Not the best option. An SOS option (or any blinky function) may have to operate for hours before it attracts attention/rescue. Tapping it out for hours isn't the best use of time, energy or resources. Plus if you're injured/sick or tending to someone injured/sick you don't have the time to sit there and tap it out over and over. With a blinky function you click it, set it and tend to other matters. Not everyone knows what SOS is these days (three long, three short, three long, three short etc) but blinky functions are normally at the highest lumen output and attract attention with the repetitiveness.

Same as above. This is the only reason I will want to use it. In fact, I would rather use the strobe function in the scenarios you described above than to use it in a SD situation.

Nope just a cop on the down hill to 50 who over the last couple years finally stopped saying "all I need are my hands, gun and baton" because I realized while I keep getting older "they keep getting younger." So I did research.

Okay, I didn't want to offend you if you were because I see that The Ultimate Knife has two tactical flashlights and they both only take CR123A batteries and it doesn't look like the rechargeable lithium ones which is something that has always bothered me with some of these companies that make tactical flashlights. IDK, I could be overlooking into this but it sometimes feels like a way to get more money from the consumer even after they already paid too much money for the overpriced flashlight itself. While you can certainly use CR123A batteries from where ever you can find them I have learned that most of these companies sell their own disposable CR123A batteries "to go with THEIR flashlights". Although it may not be the popular view I prefer flashlights that require AA or AAA alkaline batteries that I can get from just about ANYWHERE. They are more readily available and typically cost less.

BTW...Come on man, 50 is far from over the hill. Cut it out will ya?

The reason I landed on this one was...
1. I liked the research I saw on the potential effect of strobes and this light starts on strobe.

Are you aware of the research that advise against strobes or suggest that strobes aren't what they are cracked up to be?

2. Reasonably priced compared to say Stream light or Surefire.

Yes, it is definitely reasonably priced compared to Stream Light and most certainly compared to Surefire (I believe the most overpriced lights on the market). But I still think it's overpriced compared to, let's say, Police Security Brand Flashlights. The high prices on these tactical lights nowadays, the insistence on using CR123A disposable batteries and lumens ranging above 300 are all the rage and all of which are completely unnecessary for CIVILIAN SD. I have no problem elaborating on this if anyone reading this post wishes for me to do so.

3. I was already accustomed to the ring feature as my EDC folder has one.

That makes plenty sense. The one thing about the ring feature that Jared Wihongi pointed out that I do find useful is that it makes it all the more easier to deploy it quickly and easily. That's about the only thing I can find that I like about it. If I could I would rather use the ring for quick deployment and that try to take my finger out of that ring ASAP to get ready for action.

 

[Juany118]

Yes, all of my flashlights that have a strobe function also strobe on the highest setting. The reason that I have recently come to be against the strobe setting in a SD situation is that I experimented with it after reading some research that suggest that the strobe function can be a setback to the person WITH the flashlight as well as against the bad guy. The reasons given were a) the strobe makes it difficult for the bad guy to detect your movements and distance from him. This is most certainly advantageous to the holder of the flashlight. BUT it can also have a slight disorientation on the person holding the flashlight as well and it can also make it difficult for that person to notice slight movements and distance changes that the bad guy makes.

The one with the light still has the upper hand. But for me one of the goals in a SD situation is to maximize any and all advantages and minimize any and all disadvantages I may have in that situation. Even that slight downside with the strobe can be the difference between going home or going to the morgue that night.

The reason this happens brings us to b) the environment has an effect on how the strobe bounces around. You can strobe someone standing in front of a car and the car window and the finish on the car itself can make it so that you feel a slight effect of the strobe. Even if you still have the upper hand as the holder of the flashlight you still do not want to give the bad guy any chances to do what he wants to do to you or your family. Looking for too long at the bad guy while you have your strobe light fixed on him will start to have a negative effect on you as well.

The most disconcerting reason I have read to say 'nay' to the strobe setting is c) the holder of the flashlight may not be aware that he too is being ever so slightly affected by his own light. This lack of awareness makes it easier to miss certain movements that the bad guy makes and will have us thinking that we still hold all the chips in a SD situation.

I experimented with the strobe setting with my wife where I used the strobe setting while in our bedroom (since our room has walls, mirrors, desks, etc.) and sure enough I was not able to detect some of her movements that she made. I think another reason is because my own eyes were bothered and started hurting while I was looking at her trying to detect whatever movements I can. Because I had the light directed at her I was catching some of the after effects of the strobe as my eyes were fixated on her. I didn't like it. Not one bit. We cannot dictate when and where we may have to defend ourselves and if the strobe setting can have any cons at all to go with the pros then I will not use it. So far I haven't read any cons about using the regular high output setting. So my position is why not just go with the setting that has no cons at all rather than take any chances on a setting that does have cons? And also I'm still not convinced that the strobe setting would be better than the high setting. All of the cons that I have read about with the strobe do not exist with regular high output mode.



This is the only reason I MAY want to use a strobe setting in a SD situation and that's only if I can find a way to use it without being affected by it myself. And even still just because I am using the strobe function on my lights doesn't mean help will definitely come. Some people may see it and not give it a second thought.



Same as above. This is the only reason I will want to use it. In fact, I would rather use the strobe function in the scenarios you described above than to use it in a SD situation.



Okay, I didn't want to offend you if you were because I see that The Ultimate Knife has two tactical flashlights and they both only take CR123A batteries and it doesn't look like the rechargeable lithium ones which is something that has always bothered me with some of these companies that make tactical flashlights. IDK, I could be overlooking into this but it sometimes feels like a way to get more money from the consumer even after they already paid too much money for the overpriced flashlight itself. While you can certainly use CR123A batteries from where ever you can find them I have learned that most of these companies sell their own disposable CR123A batteries "to go with THEIR flashlights". Although it may not be the popular view I prefer flashlights that require AA or AAA alkaline batteries that I can get from just about ANYWHERE. They are more readily available and typically cost less.

BTW...Come on man, 50 is far from over the hill. Cut it out will ya?



Are you aware of the research that advise against strobes or suggest that strobes aren't what they are cracked up to be?



Yes, it is definitely reasonably priced compared to Stream Light and most certainly compared to Surefire (I believe the most overpriced lights on the market). But I still think it's overpriced compared to, let's say, Police Security Brand Flashlights. The high prices on these tactical lights nowadays, the insistence on using CR123A disposable batteries and lumens ranging above 300 are all the rage and all of which are completely unnecessary for CIVILIAN SD. I have no problem elaborating on this if anyone reading this post wishes for me to do so.



That makes plenty sense. The one thing about the ring feature that Jared Wihongi pointed out that I do find useful is that it makes it all the more easier to deploy it quickly and easily. That's about the only thing I can find that I like about it. If I could I would rather use the ring for quick deployment and that try to take my finger out of that ring ASAP to get ready for action.

No offense taken

I am aware of the research but didn't mind myself effected in fast paced dynamic situations in training. I did not however do any medium to long term exposure.

As for the disposable batteries I actually find this and advantage. On duty I carry the new gen Streamlight LED Stinger. Rechargable lights like the Stinger and replaceable battery lights fail in different ways so I find having one of each a benefit. Additionally after all these years I sometimes forget to maintain the charge on my Stinger, being able to just swap in spare batteries helps to cover my but. It's a PITA getting the mag light out of the car because it is sandwiched in between a shotgun and a patrol rifle.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Something I forgot to mention with my list of reasons for being anti-strobe is that the strobe light doesn't necessarily stop the bad guy. Based on what I've read is that because the strobe is basically intermittent at whatever hertz can allow certain people to deal with it and charge you anyway because they can still see you even if it is a distorted image of you that they see. With normal high output they don't see you at all. This would be the fourth reason that turned me off about strobes.

A fifth reason is that there isn't anything in any of the research I've done to even remotely suggest that strobe is better in a SD situation than normal high output. Normal high output is better than normal medium or low output. The reason? Normal high output has more lumens than medium or low output and thus a better chance at the temporary blinding factor.

Some people say that strobe is better to use in a SD situation than normal high output. Reason?.............

Again, these things are not an issue at all with the normal high output function. And this brings me back to my question; why mess around in a SD situation (and possible life or death situation) with something that has downsides as opposed to using something that does not have these downsides at all? Please forgive me guys but I'm failing to see the logic in that.

IDK, I could be completely wrong here but I think the strobe function is a "nifty" feature that most consumers are convinced is better than normal high mode strictly based on the marketers saying it is. IDK. Maybe I'm the only one who sees it that way.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

As far as high output vs. strobe I suppose it comes down to personal preference. If there is research indicating that high output is more effective I'd appreciate a link.

Couple of comments on lights and batteries. First, as I've mentioned above, a good, solid CREE LED light can be purchased for less than $20. I'm a member of the BLF discussion board. Convoy lights are among the best budget flashlights that can be purchased. And budget should not be confused for quality in these cases. I am carrying a Convoy S2+ as I type this post. I carry it for a variety of reasons. In this link you'll see a torture test video:

Convoy S2+

It is one of the few China made products worth more than what is charged. And Simon has an excellent reputation. His link is in the first post of the thread. I've purchased several Convoy S2+ lights in various colors. Simply and excellent light.

Astrolux S1 (same as the BLF A6). Similar to the Convoy S2+ but with some additional features and more power.

Astrolux S1

Both of those are lights that use an 18650 lithium ion battery. These provide much higher output and capacity over AA batteries. If you like a AA flashlight with excellent features then I'd recommend a couple of different ones. The Sipik SK68 can be purchased on Ebay for a few bucks. It uses either an AA or a 14500 lithium ion battery. The SK68 can be a bit of a lotto on quality but the Sipik SK 68 is usually decent. On a 14500 it will get up to 300 lumen, on an AA about 80 lumen (which still is more than a 5D cell Maglite with incandescent bulb)! It's cheap enough to buy 10 and stick the other 9 in the drawer or glove box. If you lose one you won't cry over it.

If you want to go more expensive, the Nitecore EA11 uses an AA or 14500 and has lots of excellent features. I EDC either the EA11 or the Nitecore SRT3 which also uses either the AA, 14500, CR123 or 16340.

If you are unfamiliar with lithium ion batteries:

Regular cells like AAA/AA/C and D are 1.5V. A lithium ion battery is 3.7V.

If you're using a lithium ion battery make sure the light is capable of using it or it will fry the driver/LED.

And most important...DON'T buy the cheap Ebay lithium ion batteries. They're junk and potentially dangerous! And they are marketed for suckers. For example, a 14500 battery (same size as an AA) have about 750mAh capacity. I've seen them as high as 900mAh but that is iffy. You'll see one's on Ebay that are 2000mAh. That's for the suckers that don't know you can't fit that kind of capacity in a AA sized battery. Stick with reputable name brands from reputable sources: Efest, Keep power, King Kong, Panasonic, Samsung, Nitecore and a few others. Stay AWAY from anything labeled XXXfire with the exception of Trustfire and Windyfire IF from a reputable source (note that Trustfire are always sold in pairs with a holographic sticker).

Get a GOOD charger, not the cheap Ebay junk. I use Nitecore chargers. Those are on Ebay/Amazon for $20 or less.

For batteries and chargers...don't skimp!

 

[Psilent Knight]

As far as high output vs. strobe I suppose it comes down to personal preference.

I agree with this. One thing I've never said is that strobe is 100% ineffective. I only said high output mode is my personal preference and I've given my reasons for that.

If there is research indicating that high output is more effective I'd appreciate a link.

I never said that. What I did say is that there is a popular view that strobe is better or at least preferable to high output mode even though THERE IS NO RESEARCH OR LINK to support this popular view. All we have is tactical flashlight marketers using the "nifty" strobe function as a selling point without any of them ever proving it's perceived superiority for SD over high mode to be true. It's something that just caught on and swept across the tactical flashlight community as the latest flavor of the month. On the contrary there is research available on the web that explains some pitfalls and downsides to using the strobe function in a SD situation. But I have yet to find any research at all explaining any pitfalls or downsides to using the high output mode in a SD situation.

In My Personal and Humble Opinion this makes the high output mode better for use in a SD situation than using the strobe mode on my flashlight. We really don't need one specific link that specifically says "High output mode would be better in a SD situation than strobe mode" when we can read the available research concerning strobe mode and come to that logical conclusion naturally.

Again, it is my personal opinion that many people "believe" the strobe function to be the best thing to use in a SD situation simply because The Tactical Flashlight Marketers Tell Them It Is.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

LOL. You guys are funny.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

And why is that Bill? Seems to me it's been a good discussion on practical defensive tools. And hopefully you've learned something since your post on the previous page.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Again, it is my personal opinion that many people "believe" the strobe function to be the best thing to use in a SD situation simply because The Tactical Flashlight Marketers Tell Them It Is.

I understand what you're saying and for the general masses you may be correct. Either way, I'm glad to see both pens, sharpie markers, flashlights, keychain kubatons etc being introduced to the masses for SD situations. Same with O.C. spray on the keychain. None of it is magic. Nothing works on everyone all the time. But it is a proactive approach that a person can take to protect themselves.

The best defense against an evil man is a good man with a violent skill set.

 

[Psilent Knight]

Either way, I'm glad to see both pens, sharpie markers, flashlights, keychain kubatons etc being introduced to the masses for SD situations.

Same Here! The law abiding citizens of this country shouldn't be punished for trying to stay out of trouble. Anything that works and can be used as an equalizer is alright with me.

Same with O.C. spray on the keychain. None of it is magic. Nothing works on everyone all the time. But it is a proactive approach that a person can take to protect themselves.

Agreed! And I do think the proactive approach and righteous vigilance will greatly maximize a law abiding person's ability to stay safe and not be victimized by America's many sociopaths and brain shy thugs.

The best defense against an evil man is a good man with a violent skill set.

LOVE IT!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Common sense got seriously mugged in this thread, is what I'm saying. Debagged and radished, is what.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Sorry you feel that way Bill. I think this thread has a LOT of value in it. Certain misconceptions have been corrected. Links and videos have provided a training and educational platform and robust discussion has been the result. That's a plus and one of the purposes of the board. If you don't have anything of value to add to it, well, rather than tossing in useless banter, simply leave it to those that have interest and/or experience on the topic.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Sorry you feel that way Bill. I think this thread has a LOT of value in it. Certain misconceptions have been corrected. Links and videos have provided a training and educational platform and robust discussion has been the result. That's a plus and one of the purposes of the board. If you don't have anything of value to add to it, well, rather than tossing in useless banter, simply leave it to those that have interest and/or experience on the topic.

Misconceptions have been replaced with more misconceptions, fetishism has been raised to high art, and we've counted the number of angels that can dance upon a pin. I find it perfectly ridiculous. It's so hard not to laugh. I agree that I really should keep it to myself, though. I'll stop now.

 

[drop bear]

Yes, all of my flashlights that have a strobe function also strobe on the highest setting. The reason that I have recently come to be against the strobe setting in a SD situation is that I experimented with it after reading some research that suggest that the strobe function can be a setback to the person WITH the flashlight as well as against the bad guy. The reasons given were a) the strobe makes it difficult for the bad guy to detect your movements and distance from him. This is most certainly advantageous to the holder of the flashlight. BUT it can also have a slight disorientation on the person holding the flashlight as well and it can also make it difficult for that person to notice slight movements and distance changes that the bad guy makes.

The one with the light still has the upper hand. But for me one of the goals in a SD situation is to maximize any and all advantages and minimize any and all disadvantages I may have in that situation. Even that slight downside with the strobe can be the difference between going home or going to the morgue that night.

The reason this happens brings us to b) the environment has an effect on how the strobe bounces around. You can strobe someone standing in front of a car and the car window and the finish on the car itself can make it so that you feel a slight effect of the strobe. Even if you still have the upper hand as the holder of the flashlight you still do not want to give the bad guy any chances to do what he wants to do to you or your family. Looking for too long at the bad guy while you have your strobe light fixed on him will start to have a negative effect on you as well.

The most disconcerting reason I have read to say 'nay' to the strobe setting is c) the holder of the flashlight may not be aware that he too is being ever so slightly affected by his own light. This lack of awareness makes it easier to miss certain movements that the bad guy makes and will have us thinking that we still hold all the chips in a SD situation.

I experimented with the strobe setting with my wife where I used the strobe setting while in our bedroom (since our room has walls, mirrors, desks, etc.) and sure enough I was not able to detect some of her movements that she made. I think another reason is because my own eyes were bothered and started hurting while I was looking at her trying to detect whatever movements I can. Because I had the light directed at her I was catching some of the after effects of the strobe as my eyes were fixated on her. I didn't like it. Not one bit. We cannot dictate when and where we may have to defend ourselves and if the strobe setting can have any cons at all to go with the pros then I will not use it. So far I haven't read any cons about using the regular high output setting. So my position is why not just go with the setting that has no cons at all rather than take any chances on a setting that does have cons? And also I'm still not convinced that the strobe setting would be better than the high setting. All of the cons that I have read about with the strobe do not exist with regular high output mode.



This is the only reason I MAY want to use a strobe setting in a SD situation and that's only if I can find a way to use it without being affected by it myself. And even still just because I am using the strobe function on my lights doesn't mean help will definitely come. Some people may see it and not give it a second thought.



Same as above. This is the only reason I will want to use it. In fact, I would rather use the strobe function in the scenarios you described above than to use it in a SD situation.



Okay, I didn't want to offend you if you were because I see that The Ultimate Knife has two tactical flashlights and they both only take CR123A batteries and it doesn't look like the rechargeable lithium ones which is something that has always bothered me with some of these companies that make tactical flashlights. IDK, I could be overlooking into this but it sometimes feels like a way to get more money from the consumer even after they already paid too much money for the overpriced flashlight itself. While you can certainly use CR123A batteries from where ever you can find them I have learned that most of these companies sell their own disposable CR123A batteries "to go with THEIR flashlights". Although it may not be the popular view I prefer flashlights that require AA or AAA alkaline batteries that I can get from just about ANYWHERE. They are more readily available and typically cost less.

BTW...Come on man, 50 is far from over the hill. Cut it out will ya?



Are you aware of the research that advise against strobes or suggest that strobes aren't what they are cracked up to be?



Yes, it is definitely reasonably priced compared to Stream Light and most certainly compared to Surefire (I believe the most overpriced lights on the market). But I still think it's overpriced compared to, let's say, Police Security Brand Flashlights. The high prices on these tactical lights nowadays, the insistence on using CR123A disposable batteries and lumens ranging above 300 are all the rage and all of which are completely unnecessary for CIVILIAN SD. I have no problem elaborating on this if anyone reading this post wishes for me to do so.



That makes plenty sense. The one thing about the ring feature that Jared Wihongi pointed out that I do find useful is that it makes it all the more easier to deploy it quickly and easily. That's about the only thing I can find that I like about it. If I could I would rather use the ring for quick deployment and that try to take my finger out of that ring ASAP to get ready for action.

Close up the strobe starts bouncing back.

It is good for waving down someone. I used it to signal cops and ambos.

You can get rechargeable 123s

 

[Buka]

As an old man on the job, my prefered weapons are my radio, my hands and my side arm. I like a flash light for seeing in the dark and a small knife for cutting materials when necessary. I don't want no baton, no pepper spray, no nothing. Just my rathers, nobody else's.

 

[CB Jones]

As an old man on the job, my prefered weapons are my radio, my hands and my side arm. I like a flash light for seeing in the dark and a small knife for cutting materials when necessary. I don't want no baton, no pepper spray, no nothing. Just my rathers, nobody else's.

Man you could knock the heck out of someone with a Motorola MTS2000. It was like a brick in your hand.

And no pepper spray....I hate that crap.

 

[Buka]

Man you could knock the heck out of someone with a Motorola MTS2000. It was like a brick in your hand.

And no pepper spray....I hate that crap.

Yeah, I suppose you could.
But you know what I mean, the radio is the best - it can bring the cavalry. I always liked when the cavalry came. Or when I was part of the cavalry. (even better)

I just won't carry pepper spray. Haven't in a long time.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I agree that I really should keep it to myself, though. I'll stop now.

Since you have nothing positive to contribute to the thread, I agree, you should stop

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I just won't carry pepper spray. Haven't in a long time.

Been a long time since I've carried it off-duty as well. I fact, we no longer carry it on duty, though I wish we still did. There were times that it proved very useful and times where it can be used but a taser can't. Definitely doesn't work all the time though. But when it does...

 

[CB Jones]

, the radio is the best - it can bring the cavalry.

Oh yeah...that too.

 

[CB Jones]

I was never a big fan of the expandable batons but those old PR-24s....man those were great.