Survey - Modern Arnis Blasphemy?

[thekuntawman]

i think there is two ways to look at this thing.

1. you have people who think modern arnis is perfect, and there is no need to "improved" modern arnis. so anyone who makes a new modern arnis, there must be something wrong with him (who does he think he is, is it ego, is he out for money, etc).

2. its nobodies business what you do with your style and your school, and if they dont like what you do, then they should shut you up or shut up themselves.

number one is not how the philippine martial arts got developed. every person who learns the art, have his own teachers, ideas, strength and experiences. if you mature in the art, then your art will never be like your teachers art. MA80 is how dan anderson looks at arnis. if dan anderson likes to do arnis this way, it is not remy presas style anymore its yours. did remy presas teach you HIS teachers art? or his art? he did not train you to be a remy presas students for ever, you are now a teacher and you have to teach your own style.

number two is not political correct, but its the philippine culture in the art. you cant all agree on everything. somebody has to say, my way is better, so that someone will disagree. this way you guys can get together and prove who's way is better. when this happend you both got better. these "death matches" that we like to read about, dont think they happened between teachers who are all pals and agree on the same things. as a teacher you have to be willing to face someone who disagrees with you, and you have to be willing to prove your point. if you go with everyone else, and want to be everyones friend, you are not ready to be a teacher of the fighting arts. so you are not afraid to tell someone to kiss your ***, what is wrong with that. so you are not afraid to say that you found a better way ("another" way? give me a break! if its not better, you would not do it!) nobody will have confidence in a teacher who does not think he is worthy enough to think for himself and have his own preference in the art. people who cant think for themself, you would call this guy a groupy, or a butt kisser. or a yes, man.

modern arnis 80 is your art, that means you matured inside of modern arnis. all the guys who are still trying to copy off his teacher, they still have the students mentallity, like a little kids acting like his dad. so what if people dont agree with you? arent you a fighter? let them prove that you dont know what your talking about! 9 times out of 10, they are not willing to do that.

my guess, like the saying, if you put a group of students together, they will argue who has the best style. if you put the teachers together, they will probably agree on everything. but if you put the best fighters from each teacher together, they will figure it out.

keep doing your thing and screw everybody else who doesnt like it.

 

[Roland]

or at least something to think about!

Why did we all call our instructor, Remy Presas, Professor..........

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson
Hi Jerome,

A. Point taken. I consider that in the eyes of the MA practitioners, Remy Presas upgraded from Professor to Grand Master. The early students called him Professor, the later students called him Grand Master and a number of them called him Remy. If one looks at it as 'I knew the real Professor and you ain't him!' they are right. I ain't him and don't claim to be.

B. Senior Master is a title RP bestowed on me but in my opinion, once I adopt that I become part of the whole mess of "Who's on first" again. I side stepped that and I don't plan to step back onto those set of railroad tracks again. I like Head Master as that is also used for a person who is the head of an academic institution and does not denote supremecy over others but Professor is more personal as I am continually teaching others on a daily basis.

C. Fine but don't blame me if you get tongue tied saying it and then get a cramp in your tongue requiring mass quantities of beer (or your choice) to loosen it.

D. Actually, I wasn't looking for any kind of solution but for others's viewpoints whether they were in or out of agreement witih mine. And if this is your final offer does this mean you won't offer to go to that restaurant with me we went to when I was in Buffalo last time? If that is the case, sir, that is cruel and unusual punishment indeed.

Yours,
Dan

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the reply. Regarding point "C", I have already practiced saying "Senior Head Master" without any beers
(Heinikens, and YOU are buying the first two rounds) without
any slip ups!!! The next test is doing it under the pressure of
announcing you to an audience of Modern Arnis players in July!

With regard to point "D" - I wanted to make a suggestion that you could consider as well as point out why I was making it. My
sense of the problem is that it has less to do with the title or
term, "professor", than it does with the identificational pairing
of two names for the same person in the minds of many people
within Modern Arnis. I know that the title was bestowed on you for your kaarate expertise and accomplishements. I also know
that when you were hosting Remy at summer camps in the early 1980's, that the flyers read in part... 'Professor Remy Presas.... hosted by camp director, Professor Dan Anderson'; however, since you have founded your own variant of Modern Arnis and entitled it "Modern Arnis 80", I belieeve that you shold consider putting the professor designation into your printed resume and use a different title that makes it quite clear that you are the most senior person in the MA 80 system. 'Senior Head Master' certinly does that very effectively.

I have to mention that I have noticed in my reading of the other posts that no one has any real concern about organizational title of MA 80; that indicates to me that you've got the support of many people to forge ahead with it and ignore the critics!!! Go for it, Danny, just do it!!!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Dan,

You know if I had a problem with you or something you said, I would have told you in person on the phone or through e-mail.

As others have said, no matter what you do people will complain. Sometimes it maybe legitimate, other times it by those scared the most you might succeed.

As for Professor, I have no problems with the title. It is a title. I agree with your comments about some people calling Professor/GM Remy Presas by some title or other. Although, the ones who called him professor were to most shocked to hear that I called him Remy while sharing a beer, driving him somewhere. They were appalled or shocked. I meant no disrespect. So, you will run into some people who might resent the title. It is almost like the step dad after a dad as passed away. Some children will always be upset or resent the new dad and also resent if any other children call him dad.


As for the MA-80 issue. In my opinion, it is the title you have put together as your curriculum. This is fine. If you wish to have it go public or bog time, then take the advice of Bloodwood and make it an organization with you at the head.

In the end it is your call.

With Respect

Hi Rich,

I am in complete agreement with you on th MA 80 piece of advice to Dan. I also have experienced the same thing from time to time when I refered to Remy, by name off the mat... some people were very surprised and upset about what they perceived as a lack of respect for "Professor or Grand Master Presas". What they overlooked was that Remy and I were from the same generation, six years apart in age and we had a mutal respect for one another's accomplishments. I had his permission to call him Remy, at any time and place!!!

On the mat, out of respect for him, the art and his status as founder, I ALWAYS refered to him "Professor" as did virtually everyone else. I was never surprised when some people used his name off the mat. I observed that if he did not want or appriciate a particular person addresing him by name, there was a look that he gave, perhaps unconciously, perhaps not, but
in either case, the point was made. The 'offender usually got
the visual message cue, without anyone else having to step in to "verbally clarify" that 'look'.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Blood,
As to getting out in public, I'm working on it. The first step has been the ebooks. Second step is the SOKE Councilship event inFlorida last summer and the Filipino Gathering in San Francisco, also last summer.

The opinions I asked for are more for one specific reason - as usual, my key detractor is putting out that there is a groundswell opinion against what I have done so I thought I'd ask outright in public, "Hey Folks, what do you think?" Either there is a huge groudswell of public opinion decrying my folly or it's just one man's opinion. So far, it's just one man's opinion...as I thought. I do not ask for permission from my peers so please don't get the idea that I have cold feet or I feel the need for agreement to go with what I am doing.

Jerome,
You bought lunch so I have no problem with buying the first two rounds.

Roland,
That is how I was introduced to him.

Palusut,
Is Walampu 80 in Tagalog?

Rich,
As usual, well thought out and I do know if you had any problem with anything with me you'd bring it up right away. That's one of things I like about you - your forthrightness.

Kuntawman,
Yep, yep and if I didn't make myself clear, yep.
Dan

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

The OFFICIAL opinion of the WMAA on Mr. Anderson’s MA-80 is as follows: Our members have the right to freedom of speech and self-expression. As long as Mr. Anderson’s actions do not break any laws, endanger people’s safety or reflect negatively on the WMAA, we do not feel there is a problem. Mr. Anderson’s actions only reflect upon himself. This is sole the opinion of the administrative team of our organization and does not reflect the personal opinions of our members.

Datu Tim Hartman
World Modern Arnis Alliance

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi Dan,

Yes, Walampu is 80 in Tagalog.

Palusut

 

[Dan Anderson]

Folks,
Thanks for your replies, both posted and private. I've gotten the pros and cons and opinions are what I was requesting. Thanks for taking the time. See you all in Buffalo for both the WMAA camp in May and the 2003 Symposium in July.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by Mao
Words are important. Just because Remy didn't come out and say specifically that you have seniors in Modern Arnis does not mean that you don't. There were many other people training in Modern Arnis in 1980...
Guro Dan McConnell

Dan,
I have been thinking about the above point and have found a better way to state it. Seniority usually implies authority and authority over someone or something. What I should have said is since that RP was my direct teacher, he had authority over me in the Modern Arnis sense. He did not state that anyone else had authority over me. That is much clearer than saying that he did not say I had seniors. I agree with you that there were many others who trained earlier than 1980 than I. There are others who have higher ranking than I directly under RP. As to authority over me, that is a different matter. A good comparative would be to ask if I had authority over you, since I am higher ranked. I can answer that faster than you - no, I don't. Here are where the roads separate. You have your own goals and purposes and influences and they may differ from mine.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Angus]

While I'm not a Modern Arnis practitioner, I can't see why there would be a problem to take a great art lacking structure and building upon it and giving it it's own skeleton. Not knowing the specific differences beyond that I can't comment on the change of title, however I can say that if it suits your teaching style and helps your students to learn/progress/continue what is still essentially Modern Arnis, then it doesn't seem to be of any harm to neither the WMAA (as it is still promoting Modern Arnis) nor you. After all, if it's Modern Arnis, it's Modern Arnis, and promotion of the art is going to be beneficial regardless, especially when the sole difference (as I understand it) is merely the method with which the MA curriculum is taught. Easily overlooked, I'd imagine, by people who just see the name.

As far as the Professor title, I think it's fine, especially given your history (not to mention it was formally given to you by ATAMA, no?). In my opinion, titles like Head Master, Senior Master, etc, sound almost as presumptuous as Great Grand Master and BS like that. It's less the title rather than the multitude of fakes that have given titles such a bad name. I tend to shudder when I see a english title like that ("Soke" included) before a person's name, because a lot of the time it doesn't seem warranted. Professor is a far more professional sounding name that doesn't have a lot of the same negative connotations, at least for me. I think it's important to note that you're still giving 100% credit to training history, and you aren't claiming to be anything you're not. I think that's pretty important. Granted, people may still get angry regardless because RP used the title himself for a while, but it's only a title. There are plenty of other professors out there, and it's not a title of belt rank like "Grand Master" would be; it simply implies that you know very deeply and intimately your subject of interest, which, in your case, happens to be Modern Arnis and Karate. Regardless, though, you're always going to have someone complain about titles, arts, etc, and it's impossible to get away from that.



If what you do makes you happy, your students happy, and promotes the arts in a positive way, then I would imagine it's probably ok regardless of what people are going to say.

Just my very small fraction of an unsolicited cent.

 

[lhommedieu]

From the Eskrima Digest (2/1):

"Professor Presas was a professor of Physical education in the Philippines, I studied under his brother, Professor Ernesto Presas at the University of Santo Tomas. We called him "Professer" because he was one."

-Carlo Arellano

 

[Dan Anderson]

Stepher,
Good bit of history there. Thanks.

Dan

 

[Roland]

...that was the answere I was looking for.
Was not sure if some people did not know it, or were just trying to ignore the fact!



:soapbox:

 

[The Mist]

Clearly Mr. Anderson you are aware that practitioners of Modern Arnis referred to Professor as not just merely a title. It was almost a family name. Almost like Father, or Dad. He always taught with that mantle of kindness. And all the Practitioners I know (and that is at least 100), called him that with that air of family!
Sure you have some kick *** technique, but in the general community of Modern Arnis you have not established yourself as the Father or the Art. I belive that you can claim your master status without using the Title of Professor.
I am sure that others called his brother Professor also, but, within the Modern Arnis community in America... you are coopting "Remy's" father figure status.
I belive that is JUST NOT RIGHT!!
And,
If you want to go with Arnis 80, go for it... Modern Arnis is your art too, it is for everyone... your personal flavor will just enrich the art!
(Tim) It was well that you put out that formal statement on the Matter for the WMAA.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Dear Mist,
To reply:
"Clearly Mr. Anderson you are aware that practitioners of Modern Arnis referred to Professor as not just merely a title. It was almost a family name. Almost like Father, or Dad. He always taught with that mantle of kindness. And all the Practitioners I know (and that is at least 100), called him that with that air of family!

As one of his earliest students in the 1980's, I am very aware of that.

"Sure you have some kick *** technique, but in the general community of Modern Arnis you have not established yourself as the Father or the Art."

That has never been my intention and I have never claimed so.

"I belive that you can claim your master status without using the Title of Professor."[i/]

Okay.

"I am sure that others called his brother Professor also, but, within the Modern Arnis community in America... you are coopting "Remy's" father figure status.

To the first, possibly. I don't know. To the second, you are missing the point completely. I use the title as it is an English, not Tagalog term for an instructor who is senior to a teacher. Also, although many of us refered to our teacher as "Professor," many more refered to him as Grand Master as well. I have always claimed and continue to claim that I am not attempting to step into his positioning in Modern Arnis and never will claim to.

"I belive that is JUST NOT RIGHT!! "

Thank you for your forthright opinion.

And, If you want to go with Arnis 80, go for it... Modern Arnis is your art too, it is for everyone... your personal flavor will just enrich the art!
(Tim) It was well that you put out that formal statement on the Matter for the WMAA.

To both of the above, thanks again.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Lady Presas]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

Also, although many of us refered to our teacher as "Professor," many more refered to him as Grand Master as well.

Yours,
Dan Anderson [/B]

Dan-

I disagree with your statement. I attended most of Professor Presas' seminars in the years' immediately preceding his retirement. The majority of the people called him "Professor". Not to be rude, but I don't recall seeing you at any of these seminars, so how could you possibly know how the people addressed him?

It seems to me that when people outside the system initially met Remy, they addressed him as GM. However, as they came to know him and were drawn into the system, they would use the more familiar term of "Professor". It was his preference to be called Professor, as he thought that the term Grand Master was intimidating.


:asian:

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by Lady Presas
Dan-

I disagree with your statement. I attended most of Professor Presas' seminars in the years' immediately preceding his retirement. The majority of the people called him "Professor". Not to be rude, but I don't recall seeing you at any of these seminars, so how could you possibly know how the people addressed him?

:asian:

Here we go again with that statement ' I did not see you at any of the seminars/camps that I attended...'. This is not to criticize or belittle anyone's point of view or any part pf Lady Presas' other statements within her post. I would simply like everyone to understand that ALL of us can make that statement; AND ALL of us can be burned by it because it would be impossible for anyone to have attended every single seminar and camp over the 26 years that Remy Presas taught in the USA, Canada and Europe.

If this is the only validating statement that one can make in establishing a point within a post or thread, then perhaps one should reconsider what they have to say.

For me the arguement is not about how many seminars or camps one attended. Tt is about whether or not, as an individual, one believe that within the Modern Arnis world, that ANYONE can or should use the title "professor"! Let's stick to that and discuss that, because NONE of us went to every single seminar and camp that Remy Presas conducted.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

 

[bloodwood]

Dan stated in his opening post to start this thread, "I'm putting my butt out here on the line."
When something as controversial as the Professor Title is at the heart of the discussion people tend to get quite passionate about what they say. Dan opened this can of worms all by himself so let the posts fall where they will. If that's the way the Lady feels, So be it. Lady Presas has made only 3 posts and most are on this subject. It she felt strongly enough about this to come foreword, then give the lady her right to speak her mind.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by Lady Presas
Dan-

I disagree with your statement. I attended most of Professor Presas' seminars in the years' immediately preceding his retirement. The majority of the people called him "Professor". Not to be rude, but I don't recall seeing you at any of these seminars, so how could you possibly know how the people addressed him?

It seems to me that when people outside the system initially met Remy, they addressed him as GM. However, as they came to know him and were drawn into the system, they would use the more familiar term of "Professor". It was his preference to be called Professor, as he thought that the term Grand Master was intimidating.


:asian:

Dear Lady,
No rudeness or insult received on this end. I wasn't at the seminars immediately preceding his death but the ones I did attend, many of the students referred to him as GM rather than Professor. Quick question: How did you now he was intimidated by the term GM? Did he tell you this, did you read this by his body language as someone addressed him as such or did you infer this? Just curious here.

Dear Blood,
Sure did put my butt on the line here and you know what? Reletively few paddlings or :flame: blowtorches :flame: have come my way. The fascinating thing I find is the comparative lack of response. Out of all the registered posters on MartialTalk, a small number have said anything one way or the other. What that means to me is in the over all picture, hardly anybody cares what the Sam Hill I call myself. Interesting.

All for now,
Dan Anderson

 

[Bob Hubbard]

To be honest Dan, I think most folks are just tired of all the politics and ******** thats piled up since Remy died.

For a while we had some huge flames here on who was the new 'heir', who was ahead of who, etc.

At this point, I think its at the 'talk n titles n ranks are cheep, get on the mat n show us what ya got' stage.

Theres an easy dozen+ organizations, a large number of 'independants', etc, all with their own thoughts and opinions on what Modern Arnis is, was, and will be.

Call yourself founder, professor, furuer, grand high exaulted poobah of the dark segment. Most of us dont really care. We just wanna know, can you do the dance and truely 'fit' whatever title you have chosen?

Those of us who attend the seminars this year will be watching to see if in fact you can. Some will always find fault in what you do. Thats their problem. Just be prepared as some will call you on the professor title, perhaps nicely, perhaps in the parking lot. Won't be us low belters mind you, but the self proclaimed who rattle their sticks claiming their are topdog, yet never seem to go more than 100 miles from home to promote the art, or attend events where they might encounter someone who knows better.

The WMAA camp in May and the MAS in July will put you on the spot, to show in front of your peers what you have got. Better dig out the dress Gi....somefolks might be checking the creases.

Me personally?
I think you're entitled to do what you believe is right. Time will either promote or expose the truth.

Peace.

:asian: