I came across this youtube clip and thought it was pretty interesting. Talks about some common myths and realities.
**Warning: Some Graphic Content**
**Warning: Some Graphic Content**
Last edited by a moderator:
Knife Attack Myths
- Thread starter MJS
- Start date
wade
Black Belt
Thanks, that was good.
still learning
Senior Master
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2004
- Messages
- 3,749
- Reaction score
- 48
Hello, Pretty mean stuffs to watch!
Practice knife attacks in the Class with rubber/wooden knifes...never, never, will be the same on the streets!
Escape if you can...
Aloha, Class room training...very rare to be the same on the streets!
Practice knife attacks in the Class with rubber/wooden knifes...never, never, will be the same on the streets!
Escape if you can...
Aloha, Class room training...very rare to be the same on the streets!
Langenschwert
Master Black Belt
Great vid. For interested parties, Haffoc is the author of "Medieval and Rennaisance Dagger Techniques" by Paladin Press.
Best regards,
-Mark
Best regards,
-Mark
Agreed... the reason for that is because the attacker/knife wielder didn't take the same class.
All the videos did show one thing... nearly all knife attacks are quick and sudden, in my experience no amount of awareness can completely compensate that... it'll help but one of the only ways to prevent the knife is to SEE the knife and unfortunately (and fortunately for the defender who has one) the knife can be well hidden until brought to use.
Still quick reaction and training can help lessen the impact and as shown there are defenses if you're quick enough to utilize them and your awareness can help minimize the impact.
Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,722
- Reaction score
- 85
Long time a go I got a video called 'The Red Zone'. Their versions of disarming a knifer was very different from what I had been used to. It was more like wrestling. You learned to drag the opponents knife arm down with your weight and how to get the knife out of his hand.
Yes it was an interesting video. A good reason to learn 'Glockdo' and disarming.
Deaf
Yes it was an interesting video. A good reason to learn 'Glockdo' and disarming.
Deaf
KenpoTex
Senior Master
...and it works a helluva lot better than anything I've seen from a traditional system.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #8
I have the Red Zone tape. Havent seen the 2nd one, but it looks pretty good. I'm in agreement...I like the guys ideas that he has. Pretty much in line with Karl Tanswell and STAB.
Its funny...you train for a while, and you're exposed to many different things. Then all of a sudden, you find something that really catches your eye and you're like, "WTF was I thinking, when I was doing those TMA disarms???" Now, this isnt to say that all TMA disarms are bad, but my eyes were opened when I saw the way the FMAs deal with weapons, and then things like the RZ and STAB. Things that make ya go hmmmm......
OP
- Thread Starter
- #9
Oh I agree. Certainly getting the hell away from the guy with the weapon is a good thing, but as it was shown on the clip, that isn't always the best solution. All the more reason to have plan b...and c and d and e.
As for the training blades...there are some good tools on the market today, such as the Shock knife and No Lie Blades, which seem to give a more realistic 'feel', no pun intended, to the attack. That, coupled with a partner who is really going to give it some effort during the attack, and it should be clear whats going to work and whats not.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2004
- Messages
- 4,753
- Reaction score
- 189
Glockdo does work pretty well........given the proper range and reaction time.
still learning
Senior Master
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2004
- Messages
- 3,749
- Reaction score
- 48
Hello, A study was done...a police officer comes out of his car..approach a suspect...
suspect pulls out a knife and charges the police officer ...withing 21 feet or less the suspect won with a knife to the police officer...(might be 27 feet? ...can't remember...) repeated tests has proven the knifer wins just about 100% of the times...
Aloha, ....If a police offer can not win? ...think you can?
CuongNhuka
Senior Master
Black Belt once did something similar with a Filipino stylist. Basicly, he was able to control what happened within 21 feet using a stick. So Glockdo is clearly of limited use. At that range, I'd probably just try to beat the guy to the punch, so to speak. It's amazing to see how people react when the guy they're charging, is charging back.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #13
The Tueller Drill is the Police study that was done. Here are a few links:
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
Keep in mind, this was a study to determine whether or not the LEO could draw his gun, aim and shoot before the badguy with the knife gets to him. Unless the citizen has a gun permit, chances are, we're going to be unarmed. So in that case, unless its an ambush that we dont see, we should hopefully be ready, as our weapons, ie: our hands, feet, etc., are already ready, so to speak. I do feel however, that when training knife defense in the dojo, that we should take it to the next level, meaning, instead of just working a stationary drill, where the badguy thrusts and you defend, start from a slight distance. Doesnt have to be 21feet, but beyond arms reach. I'll also mention again, the RedZone and STAB material is very interesting, and seems pretty effective.
We run this drill with airsoft guns during force on force training. It's fun, eye opening and reveals a lot. Couple of things; Police officers carry their gun out in the open, strong side hip and so retention is an issue. Their holsters are a much slower draw than my IW Appendix carry rigs, or kydex strong side carry holster. Also, the more proficient you get at stepping off the x while drawing, the better chance you have a beating the knife attack. Lastly, a lot of guys I see run this drill are trying to make the first shot a full sighted shot in that time frame, we practice point shooting also, and so the first shot may be fired at 3/4 hip and continuous shots fired from there, so additional time is saved.
Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,722
- Reaction score
- 85
Considering how close a knife attack usually is K831, I'd practice it from the retention position. I know one can it at 3 yards from that if they practice. And it's the fastest of all positions.
Deaf
Deaf
I didnt take from observing these and various other clips of stabbings and other assaults that technique/method A is better than technique/method B. For every clip that shows technique B failing I am sure some you-tube expert can come up with some clip showing technique A failing just as badly.
One lesson that I do take from these type of clips is the reinforcement of the idea that it is good to train that all physical conflicts are armed and multiple opponent, if it turns out not to be so, no harm was done but if it turns out to be so, then it is expected and prepared for.
Another that is just as important I think is how often you will be on your own and in my opinion it is wise to train with that in mind. Likely others will not help and in fact may even hinder and that it is wise to learn how to do the work with that in mind. There are ways to get others to notice and to help. With the obvious examples of people walking by averting their gaze it would also be smart to train that you may have to render immediate trauma first aid to both yourself and perhaps your attacker(s) before rescue or aid shows up.
Regards
Brian King
One lesson that I do take from these type of clips is the reinforcement of the idea that it is good to train that all physical conflicts are armed and multiple opponent, if it turns out not to be so, no harm was done but if it turns out to be so, then it is expected and prepared for.
Another that is just as important I think is how often you will be on your own and in my opinion it is wise to train with that in mind. Likely others will not help and in fact may even hinder and that it is wise to learn how to do the work with that in mind. There are ways to get others to notice and to help. With the obvious examples of people walking by averting their gaze it would also be smart to train that you may have to render immediate trauma first aid to both yourself and perhaps your attacker(s) before rescue or aid shows up.
Regards
Brian King
still learning
Senior Master
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2004
- Messages
- 3,749
- Reaction score
- 48
Hello, After reading and listen to many Knife fights and and training seminars...
The one thing that is common? ....expect to get cut!
Aloha, ....what is the red stuffs all over your clothes? ....kepsup?
The one thing that is common? ....expect to get cut!
Aloha, ....what is the red stuffs all over your clothes? ....kepsup?
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2004
- Messages
- 4,753
- Reaction score
- 189
That's precisely my point. Guns require time and space to deploy. A knifer inside a reactionary gap is in a superior position to an armed gunman IF the gunman has not yet put his gun in to use.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2004
- Messages
- 4,753
- Reaction score
- 189
I wouldn't actually say expect to get cut......there is such a thing as a self-fulfilling prophecy. It would be more accurate to say that is wise to be prepared for the possibility of getting cut and not be stopped by it.
I think that's an important point. I never say expect to cut; I say, a man with a knife is a 10th degree black belt and this is a very, very serious situation that you should avoid being in if at all possible.
